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Dayton MKIII 15 ported build Ideas and answers?
41 replies to this topic
Posted December 12 2012 - 09:21 AM
Ok I started a thread a bit back on building for a Dayton RSS390HF15 ported. I have not begun that project yet as i am now contemplating going with a Dayton Titanic MKIII 15 in a ported enclosure. Real reason for the change in project is enclosure size. I thought i would be alright with the 9+ cubic foot ported for the HF but it is just to large for my liking. Can you guys help me out with a design spec. I was thinking 21 width, 24 height x 25 depth. I was looking at doing 2 ports 4" diameter placed on the front side along with the driver. I would like to have it tuned down to at least 18hz. The issue that i have is the port lengths do not allow for this as they are to long. Also will i run into an issue with air velocity. Suggestions on design specs and helpful ideas for tuning are greatly appreciated. Let me know your thoughts. Heck is this even the right sub for the job. I would like to go ported no larger than 6 cubic foot used solely for HT. I am planning on powering with a 1000w keiga. Unfortunately the wife bought the HF model for me as a Christmas present but i don't feel that i want to go that route anymore. Everyone gave me great input last go around so thanks in advance guys.
Posted December 12 2012 - 11:13 AM
the keiga plate amp i believe has a 15hz high pass filter
Posted December 12 2012 - 11:39 AM
Why not use a JL driver? One reason I'd advocate using the JL driver is because any car audio dealer can order you service parts should anything go wrong. Also the JL driver will give you a harder hitting experience than the Dayton...bass is pricey but in your case if you have DYI skills building with the JL driver will give beyond amazing results. Good luck. Sure the driver is expensive...but life is sort. The Dayton kit is roughly 800$ plus shipping. The JL driver is 650$ if you shop around, 300$ for the plate amplifier, then another 150 in building materials...wood, screws, paint etc...still a heckuva lot better than the Dayton.
Posted December 12 2012 - 01:30 PM
Why not use a JL driver? One reason I'd advocate using the JL driver is because any car audio dealer can order you service parts should anything go wrong. Also the JL driver will give you a harder hitting experience than the Dayton...bass is pricey but in your case if you have DYI skills building with the JL driver will give beyond amazing results. Good luck. Sure the driver is expensive...but life is sort. The Dayton kit is roughly 800$ plus shipping. The JL driver is 650$ if you shop around, 300$ for the plate amplifier, then another 150 in building materials...wood, screws, paint etc...still a heckuva lot better than the Dayton.JL is good but way over priced. If anything goes wrong with the Dayton for 5 years, they will replace it. Please explain how the JL will provide a "harder hitting experience" than the Dayton.
Posted December 12 2012 - 02:07 PM
First, don't discount the Dayton HF. I've read about dozens of builds with it and everyone is very satisfied. If you want to go ported, you can use this design - http://www.danmarx.o...n/tcsounds.html It's very close to your design. Put an elbow on each port and extend it some more. Put a few polyfil pillows in the cabinet to make up the difference in enclosure volume that you lose. You can also drop down to a pair of 3" flared ports from PSP. Dan Wiggins used them in his Tempest designs and it will move more air than the Dayton - http://www.stiger.co...ntedtempest.pdf Do you have the Keiga amp yet or are you going with my suggestion for an iNuke? I do owe you a part number for a fan - http://www.digikey.c...P9739-ND/102209 That's what I run in my Behringer.
Posted December 12 2012 - 02:30 PM
I do not have the amp in my hands at this time but should have it within a couple weeks. The reason I am shying away from the Dayton Rss390 15 is space alone. Even though I do have a large area I just do not want something that big at this time. I thought I would be fine with it till I actually took out the tape measure in the area I was looking to put it. That being said I'm looking to see what I can do with another ported 15" in a smaller size enclosure. I was thinking about the mk111 15 but run into issues in the modeling. Let me ask this would a AV15 sub be a better option for a ported enclosure versus the Dayton mk111 15? I believe I still have the ability to purchase 1 or maybe 2. So let me know thoughts. Also let me know if anyone has done a ported Dayton mk111 15 if so what were the specs? Has any lone done a ported AV15. If so what specs were on that. If there are any links around for images etc that would be great. Thanks again guys
Posted December 12 2012 - 03:08 PM
The design I posted will work for both. The Titanic is more of a bruiser of a sub. The Dayton and AV line are more sound quality oriented. The Keiga amp is overkill for both. How about a beefy 12", ported sub? http://creativesound...lans-290307.pdf Add in a 12" LMS-R http://www.parts-exp...tnumber=293-658 and it should equal the total output of the Dayton. You keep asking about specs. There is no one design that is correct. Everything is a trade-off. Since size is an issue for you, I suggest going sealed.
Posted December 12 2012 - 03:21 PM
I guess when I say specs in my mind I'm looking for an easy answer and your right thera not. It's just a tradeoff of what you like and what you can actually get out of what your building. I guess sometimes I'm hoping there's just a magic formula LOL right. Let me take a look at the links you posted in more detail and see if I can finally make up mind. I know what I want it's just a matter of figuring out how to get there. Maybe the answer is to build both. Build a ported 12 for size purposes and a sealed 15 and see which is the one for me. Thanks again I'll be back in touch soon after some more research.
Posted December 13 2012 - 11:20 AM
While the Dayton is a fine woofer, it's just not going to have the weight and authority of the JL. The JL has 4 inch peak excursion limit...That translates to harder hitting sound pressure levels. If you are going to be investing in the high powered Kiega amplifier you shouldn't waste time with the inferior Dayton driver. If you search the net you can find the W7 driver on sale for 700$...I figure the total build using the JL driver would be about 1300$ thats for the amplifier, wood, paint. The extra 300-500$ wouldn't be money spent for nothing. The 13.5 inch JL driver will give you the performance of a 15 inch woofer, with the ability to utilize a smaller sealed box cabinet. Essentially if you build with the Kiega and JL you will be getting the performance of the 2500-3000$ JL Fathom line of subwoofers. I'm not knocking the Dayton but if your going to take the time to build a subwoofer system you might as well go for the gusto.
Posted December 13 2012 - 02:16 PM
- [*] The JL W7 has an xmax of 32mm and an Sd of 693cm^2. That means it can move 4.4352 liters of air max. That's $293.10 per liter of air moving.[*] The Titanic 15 has an xmax of 20.5mm and an Sd of 804.2cm^2. That means it can move 3.29722 liters of air max. That's $60.65 per liter of air moving.[*] The TC Sounds LMS 5400 18" has an xmax of 33.66mm and an Sd of 1194.59 cm^2. Than means it can move 8.04 liters of air max. That's $115.15 per liter of air moving.[*] The Dayton DVC 15" has an xmax of 15.1mm and an Sd of 829.6 cm^2. That means it can move 2.5 liters of air max. That's $55.94 per liter of air moving.[*] The RE Audio XXX 18 has an xmax of 54mm and an Sd of 1210 cm^2. That means it can move 13.068 liters of air (That's more than 4 13W7's). That's $64.28 per liter of air moving.[*] It's not a fair comparison since I got this at the Exodus Audio going out of business sale, but my Maelstrom 21 has an xmax of 32mm and an Sd of 1550 cm^2. That means it can move 9.92 liters of air. But since I paid $150 shipped for it, that's $15.12 per liter of air moving.
You can also check out drivers from PSI, Fi, Sundown, Skar, Stereo Intergrity or Mach 1 Audio.
The 13.5 inch JL driver will give you the performance of a 15 inch wooferYou can compare it to some 15's or even 12's and it does stack up very well. But it still isn't a good value.
with the ability to utilize a smaller sealed box cabinet.That's all in the BL (motor) strength. The TC Sounds Axis 15 works well in enclosures as small as 1.5 cubic feet. One reason is it's 45 pound magnet structure and 1.4" tall top plate. It's a beast of a sub. I have 6 15's and 1 18.
I'm not knocking the Dayton but if your going to take the time to build a subwoofer system you might as well go for the gusto.Most like to get the best performance for their money and stay within their constraints. In the years I've been at this and other forums, I've seen 2 or 3 home theater subs built with JL drivers. I could easily find 100 examples of TC Sounds DIY subs and 200+ of Dayton DIY subs.
And I used the MSRP of the JL for my calculations. If you buy from an unauthorized dealer, they will not honor the warranty. If you want to double check any of my math, the formula is:
xmax times 2 (to get the full cone stroke) in mm. Divide by 10 to get centimeters. Multiply that time the driver's Sd parameter (area of the piston in square centimeters). Divide the result by 1000 to get liters of air moved. Divide the price by liters of air moved to get dollars per liter.
Posted December 13 2012 - 02:33 PM
Robert j that is some great info!! What 12" sub would be good choice for a ported build keeping under 6 cubic foot tuned to around 18hz? It would stictly be HT use. I am looking at keeping the enclosure at 6 cubed or smaller. If I could go 15" ported I will but I think my options may be slim let me know. Thanks again.
Posted December 13 2012 - 04:33 PM
Use the Subduction plans I linked to earlier paired with the TC Sounds LMS 12. That's the only driver that is capable of handling a full 1000w plus with the LMS (Linear Motor System) it will not produce as much distortion as a regular sub.. Or you can take Umberto's recommendation and use the JL 13W7. It should work in that box as well.
Posted December 13 2012 - 04:50 PM
Have you heard a TC sounds LMS in a ported enclosure? Or Has someone in the forum gone this route? I ask as I've seen some reviews saying its just on big "boom" and not a lot of range. That said I do take those negative reviews with some skepticism but just am curious. Let me know. I don't have a problem droping the money for one but just want to here a frequency range when listening and not what seems to be just on note over and over again if that makes any sence. I don't think that would be the case but just want to throw it out there. If you know of anyone with this type of build let me know Thanks again
Posted December 13 2012 - 08:25 PM
I haven't build my LMS subs yet. I have all of the parts but just need to assemble them (baskets, magnets, coils, cones, etc). Where have you seen the reviews? This is an old thread but the pictures I linked to are all LMS subs - about $8,000 worth. Yes, they are sealed but the difference between ported and sealed isn't much. I like sealed so I can run an amp without a subsonic filter. http://www.hometheat...surround-system
Posted December 14 2012 - 05:34 AM
Ok guys. I was modeling the the Dayton RSS315HF 12 in a ported enclosure with 5.3 cubic feet. tuned to 19hz. what I see is that i cannot apply really any power before passing xmax. I also modeled the same sub in a sealed box of 3 cubic foot and saw the same thing. can you guys take a look and see if my info is correct. I am going to model the hf15 and see what i come up with.
Posted December 14 2012 - 05:55 AM
modeled the rss390hf 15 and am coming up with similar data. with the ported tuned to 18hz in a 8.5 cubic foot box and also sealed in a 4 cubic foot box. are my number wrong. when someone gets some time can they model the both the 12 and 15" drivers here for me to see if i am doing something wrong. thanks guys
Posted December 14 2012 - 10:17 AM
You aren't doing anything wrong. Those drivers have an xmax of about 12mm and do not require much power to be pushed to their limits, especially in those large boxes. Ignore the RMS and peak power rating for them because that's when the glue holding the driver together starts to melt.
Posted December 14 2012 - 10:40 AM
so let me ask this then. with that little power around 200w for the 12 and maybe 250w for the 15 how do they sound. The sub i am replacing is a paradigm ps1000. is the setup with the 12 or the 15 going to outperform it? or am i looking in the wrong direction? Should i model a smaller box for the sealed version and something different for the ported.
Posted December 14 2012 - 11:10 AM
with that little power around 200w for the 12 and maybe 250w for the 15 how do they sound.Don't equate power with sound quality. They are not related.
The sub i am replacing is a paradigm ps1000.I don't see any decent comments about this sub at other forums.
is the setup with the 12 or the 15 going to outperform it?I'd bet a lot of money that it would. Even a 10" Dayton could outperform the Paradigm.
Should i model a smaller box for the sealed version and something different for the ported.You can go as small as possible on sealed until the Qtc = .707. I like a Qtc around .500 though. It gives a smoother roll-off and room gain usually makes up for it. What's the estimated SPL when the driver reaches xmax? If you are hitting 100db then you are way louder than you will use during normal listening sessions. 100db in a house makes walls shake. 110db and things start to fall (pictures, nick-nacks), 120db and drywall can pop loose from the nails holding it to the studs.
Posted December 14 2012 - 11:18 AM
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