Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
Blu-ray Reviews

The Muppet Christmas Carol: 20th Anniversary Blu-ray Review



  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
67 replies to this topic

#61 of 68 OFFLINE   AndrewWickliffe

AndrewWickliffe

    Second Unit



  • 367 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 12 2002

Posted November 20 2012 - 02:29 PM

Has anyone gone back to the DVD review thread and seen if the arguments are exactly the same?

http://www.hometheat...-mixed-feelings

I kind of remember last time a lot more bile was directed (by me, primarily) at Disney for being lame and less at the other peeps.

#62 of 68 OFFLINE   Mike_Richardson

Mike_Richardson

    Supporting Actor



  • 639 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 11 2002

Posted November 26 2012 - 01:26 PM

As for the other two deleted songs ("Room in Your Heart" and "Chairman of the Board"), they were never actually filmed, as far as I know. They're on the soundtrack album, so that's about all one could expect Disney to do with them.
In an interview in Film Score Monthly years back, Miles Goodman -- who wrote the underscore and arranged the songs -- believed Chairman of the Board was shot; Room in Your Heart wasn't. He also lamented the loss of "When Love is Gone" and mentioned Brian Henson's regret that Disney hacked it out.

#63 of 68 OFFLINE   Malcolm R

Malcolm R

    Executive Producer



  • 11,779 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 08 2002
  • LocationVermont

Posted November 27 2012 - 10:59 AM

So you're fine going along with whatever studio executives want and don't care about the director's intentions? I remember when sites like this always advocated for the filmmaker. Guess those days are over...
With respect to home video releases, HTF has always advocated for the original theatrical presentation. That's why there has always been such spirited reaction about full-screen releases, music replacement, and filmmakers tinkering with the initial DVD releases of films (such as ET or Star Wars) without making the original theatrical versions available. Most of these have now been rectified by subsequent blu-ray releases. The original theatrical version has been the desired version, at least as far back as I can recall on this forum. Any separate releases of extended, altered or enhanced versions have just been a bonus (welcomed by some, ignored by others).
The purpose of an education is to replace an empty mind with an open mind.

#64 of 68 OFFLINE   cafink

cafink

    Producer



  • 3,045 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 19 1999

Posted November 27 2012 - 11:47 AM


With respect to home video releases, HTF has always advocated for the original theatrical presentation. That's why there has always been such spirited reaction about full-screen releases, music replacement, and filmmakers tinkering with the initial DVD releases of films (such as ET or Star Wars) without making the original theatrical versions available. Most of these have now been rectified by subsequent blu-ray releases.
The original theatrical version has been the desired version, at least as far back as I can recall on this forum. Any separate releases of extended, altered or enhanced versions have just been a bonus (welcomed by some, ignored by others).

The HTF mission statement doesn't say anything about original theatrical presentations. It does, however, say: "We want to advance films and TV shows to be represented as complete as possible and with their full image and soundtrack, as intended by the original creators, intact." Everything I've read about The Muppet Christmas Carol indicates that the complete version with "When Love Is Gone" is the version of the film that its director originally created and prefers. That its release was preceded by a truncated theatrical distribution is of relatively little consequence, in my opinion (though my ideal release of the film would include both versions).
 

 


#65 of 68 OFFLINE   Stephen_J_H

Stephen_J_H

    All Things Film Junkie



  • 4,182 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 30 2003
  • Real Name:Stephen J. Hill
  • LocationNorth of the 49th

Posted November 27 2012 - 02:01 PM

All I have to say is this: We get it. A lot of people (myself included) are displeased with Disney's decision not to include When Love is Gone in any form on the new release, but to continue discussing it with no information or insight as to why Disney made the decision is, well, see above.
"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player."-- Roger Ebert

#66 of 68 OFFLINE   cafink

cafink

    Producer



  • 3,045 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 19 1999

Posted November 27 2012 - 09:26 PM

The last page of this thread alone has information that's new to me, at least, about Miles Goodman's recollections of the omitted songs.
 

 


#67 of 68 OFFLINE   Mike_Richardson

Mike_Richardson

    Supporting Actor



  • 639 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 11 2002

Posted November 29 2012 - 08:09 AM

With respect to home video releases, HTF has always advocated for the original theatrical presentation. That's why there has always been such spirited reaction about full-screen releases, music replacement, and filmmakers tinkering with the initial DVD releases of films (such as ET or Star Wars) without making the original theatrical versions available. Most of these have now been rectified by subsequent blu-ray releases. The original theatrical version has been the desired version, at least as far back as I can recall on this forum. Any separate releases of extended, altered or enhanced versions have just been a bonus (welcomed by some, ignored by others).
As cafink states, the HTF has, first and foremost, advocated for the filmmaker's intentions, especially when it comes to getting the most complete, and director-approved, version of a film available. For many years, that used to mean advocating for uncut versions of movies that were meddled with by studios and studio executives. Regrettably, it seems what George Lucas has done to STAR WARS has now created this prevailing internet sentiment that whatever was released theatrically is the "proper" version of any film. That's just plain baffling to me. If that were true, then what any studio does on their own to alter the intentions of a filmmaker is validated so long as it's "what originally played in theaters." In any event, what you are describing -- an "extended, altered or enhanced version" -- doesn't apply to this film either. This song was shot, edited, completed and was a part of the film from the very beginning. It wasn't added back into the movie "on second thought" -- it wasn't a case where the director "tinkered" with the film, wanted to change it after the fact -- it was always there to begin with. So what you're saying about "spirited reaction involving music replacement, filmmakers tinkering," etc -- none of those things apply to this film and this instance. This is a case of a studio taking a completed film and hacking out part of it without any involvement of the filmmakers. It's not comparable to E.T. and STAR WARS and their "digitally enhanced, rethought" versions at all. It's more like executives cutting up THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS -- and are you going to argue that the true, "genuine" version of that Welles film isn't the cut Welles himself turned in, but rather what studio executives ended up releasing? (I'm not comparing these films artistically; just saying the director had nothing to do with the edits that were made in either case). There is no artistic validation to the theatrical version because nobody involved in the creative process, the production of the movie, had anything to do with the song being removed...and that's what the HTF mission statement is all about. That said, I understand folks who think we're beating a dead horse (and I apologize for contributing to that sentiment!). Alas, until we get the version of the film that Brian Henson himself completed and everyone who made the movie wanted to see, this discussion will only continue.

#68 of 68 OFFLINE   Stephen_J_H

Stephen_J_H

    All Things Film Junkie



  • 4,182 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 30 2003
  • Real Name:Stephen J. Hill
  • LocationNorth of the 49th

Posted November 29 2012 - 02:35 PM

The more important question to ask is, how "precious" is Brian Henson about The Muppet Christmas Carol? He's clearly moved on to other things that are far afield of what The Muppets are (read: more adult). I wonder if he actually cares about this release, because without hearing from him on the matter, the strongest possible advocate for a full version is not even in the room.
"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player."-- Roger Ebert





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Blu-ray Reviews

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users