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A few words about...™ Lawrence of Arabia -- in Blu-ray

A Few Words About

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#301 of 334 OFFLINE   Persianimmortal

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Posted January 06 2014 - 06:13 AM

Why will it be a necessity? Why will it not be possible for film lovers like me simply to ignore 4K and to carry on with the Blu-ray standard? My BRDs are not suddenly going to become unplayable.

I project onto a ten foot wide screen. For domestic reasons, I can't go much wider and I don't really want to anyway. BRDs like Funny Girl, Wild River and Lawrence Of Arabia look absolutely superb. I'm sceptical that there's scope for worthwhile improvement.


There will be diminishing returns when going from 2K to 4K to be sure, but I strongly suspect that the people on this forum, who can argue for weeks about tiny differences in grain patterns through the use of DNR, or small improvements in color accuracy from a new transfer, and other such changes, are going to find it hard to resist when their favorites are released in 4K.

Furthermore, as I said, the manufacturers are pushing 4K aggressively already. In a few years' time, when your current display dies, what will be the only possibility for replacement - you guessed it, a 4K set or projector and/or a 4K player, and away we go....

I remember how, a decade ago, people were stating that certain DVDs looked "stunning" even on their 42" sets, which was a large size back then. Ten years from now, we will no doubt readily notice the relative color inaccuracies (such as visible banding) and larger pixel size of 1080p the same way DVD appears imperfect compared to Blu-ray now.

#302 of 334 OFFLINE   Robin9

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Posted January 06 2014 - 09:53 AM

When it comes to resolution the 4k material that I saw looked a bit better even on 1080p displays and downscaled to 1080p.

And I am sure that you would see a difference with Lawrence of Arabia at 1 screen width away. At 1.5 screen widths not that much and at 2 screen widths probably not. I also find it harder to see differences in picture quality on displays of lesser size and in most cases it is not practical to sit close neough anyway.

Also keep in mind that you will get full 4:4:4 full HD with 4k and probably also a higher bit depth (at least 10, possibly more) and hopefully a bigger color space.

So while luma resolution alone may not bring the worthwhile improvement for most there are other benefits that will probably be part of a new standard.

 

Like most of us, I'm trying to replicate at home the experience of being in a good theater. In a theater I don't sit in the front rows because I have always found that too close. At home I sit about 14 feet away from the screen which I find about right. 



#303 of 334 OFFLINE   Robin9

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Posted January 06 2014 - 10:03 AM

There will be diminishing returns when going from 2K to 4K to be sure, but I strongly suspect that the people on this forum, who can argue for weeks about tiny differences in grain patterns through the use of DNR, or small improvements in color accuracy from a new transfer, and other such changes, are going to find it hard to resist when their favorites are released in 4K.

 

Don't be too sure. Many of the most argumentative posters watch on 50" plasma screens.

 

 

Furthermore, as I said, the manufacturers are pushing 4K aggressively already. In a few years' time, when your current display dies, what will be the only possibility for replacement - you guessed it, a 4K set or projector and/or a 4K player, and away we go....

 

Sure, but it will be possible to play BRDs on a 4K set. I doubt very much if the big manufacturers will engineer their expensive new equipment so that it makes everything look bad. They won't sell anything if they do!

 

 

I remember how, a decade ago, people were stating that certain DVDs looked "stunning" even on their 42" sets, which was a large size back then. Ten years from now, we will no doubt readily notice the relative color inaccuracies (such as visible banding) and larger pixel size of 1080p the same way DVD appears imperfect compared to Blu-ray now.

 

 

I still watch a lot of DVDs and although they are not as good as BRDs, they're still more than watchable. I have little patience with those people who claim they can't tolerate DVDs any more.


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#304 of 334 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted January 06 2014 - 11:05 AM

Like most of us, I'm trying to replicate at home the experience of being in a good theater. In a theater I don't sit in the front rows because I have always found that too close. At home I sit about 14 feet away from the screen which I find about right.


At 1.4 screen widths away it gets harder to make out differences between 4k and 2k for most people and with the vast majority of material so you will probably miss very little at 2k/1080p.

#305 of 334 OFFLINE   Bobby Henderson

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Posted February 07 2014 - 08:06 PM

Amazon currently has the Limited Collector's Edition 4-disc box set on sale for $44.99. That's less than half the list price.

 

Regarding the talk about 4K in the home, I have attitude "bring it on!" Sure, there may be diminishing returns in putting 4K native resolution into anything smaller than a 50" or 60" TV monitor. But if 4K becomes commonplace in higher end consumer electronics it will probably be the thing that finally gets movie production and more commercial cinemas to move above the still de facto 2K standard. Some movies are produced in 4K, but the vast majority are still done only in 2K. If 4K is available in the home the people bankrolling the movie productions will feel better about rendering a movie in 4K rather than saving money by rendering 4 times faster in 2K.

 

I've had it with 2K in commercial movie theaters. 2K (or "1080p") is fine on most living room TV sets. 2K is pretty lousy on anything larger than a medium sized cinema screen. 2K really suffers on giant sized screens. If the projection setup (projector, lens, alignment to screen, etc.) is top notch you're going to see the pixel grid pretty obviously on a giant sized screen. To compensate for this problem some theaters show the image a little out of focus. Image blurring is really one of the functions of the dual projector setup in IMAX branded digital theaters (brighter 3D is the main function).

 

With film projection there was nothing wrong with getting the focus dialed in as well as possible. If you could see the grain structure from the film print swimming around on the screen you knew the projection was properly in focus. I look at things like end titles in d-cinema theaters and the type is all soft looking. I rent the same movie on Blu-ray a few months later and the same lettering has clean, sharp edge detail on my TV screen.

 

4K projection technology for movie theaters needs some improvement. The biggest complaint is most 4K projector models don't throw all that bright of an image. Some have design flaws, like how Sony implements RealD on its 4K projectors (too many theaters leave the RealD filter in place even when they're showing a 2D movie). IMAX is working on their laser-based projection system, which is reportedly 4K in resolution. Other companies are working on competing laser based designs. Hopefully these new projection designs will support 4K resolution 3D. Right now all movies in 3D are only 2K.

 

Eventually all commercial cinemas will be running 4K-based projectors. A 35mm film projector could put in 2 or 3 decades of service pretty easily if it was properly maintained. A commercial movie theater would be doing pretty good to get 10 years of life out of a digital projector. Many DCI-compliant 2K projectors currently in service are several years old now.

 

As this cycle of changing out digital-based equipment continues, I'd like to see something done to treat 'scope material properly in the commercial cinema -namely a true anamorphic based setup that makes 'scope the biggest format. Right now the flat format yields a significantly higher resolution image. 'Scope is just cropping into it.



#306 of 334 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted February 07 2014 - 11:06 PM

Another nice effect of 4k will be that 1080p will finally be maxed out in quality. Just buy a 4k player and set output to 1080p for the best picture ever on a 1080p display.



#307 of 334 OFFLINE   andySu

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Posted July 09 2014 - 03:51 PM


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#308 of 334 OFFLINE   DP 70

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Posted July 10 2014 - 01:21 AM

The 4K image does not look like the 70mm version plus with 6 -Track SR shown at the Odeon Marble Arch it was one of the best.


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#309 of 334 OFFLINE   andySu

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Posted July 10 2014 - 09:29 AM

The 4K image does not look like the 70mm version plus with 6 -Track SR shown at the Odeon Marble Arch it was one of the best.

I won't buy the bluray fearing the score might be missing when Lawrence, walks across the train carriages. There is a few seconds on the English track early DVD region 2, edition that are missing (expect for the German track and I don't understand or speak German).

 

I can't take the risk, unless someone can video in the home the scene where Lawrence, is walking across the train carriages English track to convince me?

 

DOLBY SR rules.

 

I like my Criterion Collection Lawrence of Arabia, and the score in this scene I like jogging back the scene on the Pioneer DVL-909, on the Dolby CP500/SDDS with Lucasfilm Ltd THX Sound System clear lower, lows and higher highs, so impulsively immersive the scene is in, THX, 

 

http://tinypic.com/u...xc#.U773t5RdXit



#310 of 334 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted July 10 2014 - 02:06 PM

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I won't buy the bluray fearing the score might be missing when Lawrence, walks across the train carriages. There is a few seconds on the English track early DVD region 2, edition that are missing (expect for the German track and I don't understand or speak German).

 

I can't take the risk, unless someone can video in the home the scene where Lawrence, is walking across the train carriages English track to convince me?

 

DOLBY SR rules.

 

I like my Criterion Collection Lawrence of Arabia, and the score in this scene I like jogging back the scene on the Pioneer DVL-909, on the Dolby CP500/SDDS with Lucasfilm Ltd THX Sound System clear lower, lows and higher highs, so impulsively immersive the scene is in, THX, 

 

http://tinypic.com/u...xc#.U773t5RdXit

 

Agreed.  Steer clear of the Blu-ray.  Heavily flawed.  Criterion laserdisc far superior, especially CAV version.  Best yet.


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"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#311 of 334 OFFLINE   Dr Griffin

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Posted July 10 2014 - 03:00 PM

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I won't buy the bluray fearing the score might be missing when Lawrence, walks across the train carriages. There is a few seconds on the English track early DVD region 2, edition that are missing (expect for the German track and I don't understand or speak German).

 

I can't take the risk, unless someone can video in the home the scene where Lawrence, is walking across the train carriages English track to convince me?

 

DOLBY SR rules.

 

I like my Criterion Collection Lawrence of Arabia, and the score in this scene I like jogging back the scene on the Pioneer DVL-909, on the Dolby CP500/SDDS with Lucasfilm Ltd THX Sound System clear lower, lows and higher highs, so impulsively immersive the scene is in, THX, 

 

http://tinypic.com/u...xc#.U773t5RdXit

 

I checked your video against the Blu-ray and it seems to be the same. When you say there was a few seconds missing from a DVD copy, where exactly is the score missing? This Blu-ray is probably the zenith of the format, I would not let anything keep me from owning this exemplary example of just how good home video can get.


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#312 of 334 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted July 10 2014 - 03:28 PM

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I checked your video against the Blu-ray and it seems to be the same. When you say there was a few seconds missing from a DVD copy, where exactly is the score missing? This Blu-ray is probably the zenith of the format, I would not let anything keep me from owning this exemplary example of just how good home video can get.

 

There are two situations on the DVD master, where an over-zealous "artist" at an audio facility re-cut the audio tracks, because he thought that he heard a drop-out in the right channel, concurrently doing a re-mix of the music tracks.

 

RAH


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"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#313 of 334 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted July 10 2014 - 04:27 PM

Agreed.  Steer clear of the Blu-ray.  Heavily flawed.  Criterion laserdisc far superior, especially CAV version.  Best yet.


Thank you for the advice, I see that it can be bought for $11.49 shipped. A steal for a disc that I am told is much bigger than the tiny Blu-ray!

#314 of 334 OFFLINE   Reed Grele

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Posted July 10 2014 - 04:32 PM

Thank you for the advice, I see that it can be bought for $11.49 shipped. A steal for a disc that I am told is much bigger than the tiny Blu-ray!

 

And with side breaks occurring at approximately 30 minute intervals, plenty of time to visit the can, or the fridge.


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#315 of 334 OFFLINE   Charles Smith

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Posted July 10 2014 - 05:24 PM

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For lemonade.
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#316 of 334 OFFLINE   andySu

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Posted July 10 2014 - 05:25 PM

I checked your video against the Blu-ray and it seems to be the same. When you say there was a few seconds missing from a DVD copy, where exactly is the score missing? This Blu-ray is probably the zenith of the format, I would not let anything keep me from owning this exemplary example of just how good home video can get.

This is the region 2 DVD I've had since it was released years ago, It plays nicely for a few seconds and I was really getting a high off the scene. Then all of a suddenly it has missing score that was on the cinema release that I heard at the Odoen Marble on 70mm DOLBY SR, even the VHS letterbox I bought months later has the score intact. All expect the English region 2 DVD,

 

Also missing Foley footsteps are gone from the English track. That is why I have no faith in buying it on bluray fearing I'll be hearing the same thing unless someone can do a video of their bluray to prove its Ok or flawed?

 

Any have listen, I know the sound is mono don't have stereo on my camera. About 50s though I switch to the German track 5.1.

 

http://www.dailymoti...und-system_tech



#317 of 334 OFFLINE   andySu

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Posted July 10 2014 - 05:43 PM

Agreed.  Steer clear of the Blu-ray.  Heavily flawed.  Criterion laserdisc far superior, especially CAV version.  Best yet.

But here's another thing that gives me the hump. The framing seems to show more width on the bluray from the captures I've seen and I see a little bit less on Criterion Collection? Not much difference on the region 2 DVD. 

 

At least the CC has reel change dots (Yes that is what I saw at the cinema) and gives a cinema likeness being there even scratches and there are quiet a few on the CC, which doesn't bother me, it looks film like.  :)



#318 of 334 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted July 10 2014 - 05:50 PM

And with side breaks occurring at approximately 30 minute intervals, plenty of time to visit the can, or the fridge.


Perfect - I have a great hunger for desolate formats.
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#319 of 334 OFFLINE   Steve Tannehill

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Posted July 10 2014 - 05:55 PM

Personally, I can't believe we are comparing 480i laserdisc to 1080p blu-ray!

#320 of 334 OFFLINE   Allansfirebird

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Posted July 10 2014 - 06:35 PM

I won't buy the bluray fearing the score might be missing when Lawrence, walks across the train carriages. There is a few seconds on the English track early DVD region 2, edition that are missing (expect for the German track and I don't understand or speak German).

 

I can't take the risk, unless someone can video in the home the scene where Lawrence, is walking across the train carriages English track to convince me?

 

DOLBY SR rules.

 

I like my Criterion Collection Lawrence of Arabia, and the score in this scene I like jogging back the scene on the Pioneer DVL-909, on the Dolby CP500/SDDS with Lucasfilm Ltd THX Sound System clear lower, lows and higher highs, so impulsively immersive the scene is in, THX, 

 

http://tinypic.com/u...xc#.U773t5RdXit

 

Is... is this a bit?







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