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A few words about...™ Vertigo -- in Blu-ray

A Few Words About

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#41 of 410 OFFLINE   Joseph Goodman

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Posted October 26 2012 - 09:34 AM

RAH, would you know what element was used for this scan/transfer?

#42 of 410 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted October 26 2012 - 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Joseph Goodman 

RAH, would you know what element was used for this scan/transfer?

OCN


"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#43 of 410 OFFLINE   jeffsultanof

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Posted October 26 2012 - 11:01 AM

Robert, As someone who has long admired your work in saving several classic films, I truly appreciate the comments from your corner about Vertigo. I can sense that you are slightly frustrated that this release is not exactly what you might have truly wanted, but your comments are certainly enough for me to buy this item, one that I have long waited for. Seeing what you did for the 70MM presentation was a real highlight of my many years of going to movies, by the way. Thank you, Jeff

#44 of 410 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted October 26 2012 - 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by jeffsultanof 

Robert,
As someone who has long admired your work in saving several classic films, I truly appreciate the comments from your corner about Vertigo. I can sense that you are slightly frustrated that this release is not exactly what you might have truly wanted, but your comments are certainly enough for me to buy this item, one that I have long waited for.
Seeing what you did for the 70MM presentation was a real highlight of my many years of going to movies, by the way.
Thank you,
Jeff

Appreciated, and will pass along.


The problem with the new Vertigo restoration is that getting it correct would have been very, very easy.


RAH


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"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#45 of 410 OFFLINE   JoeDoakes

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Posted October 26 2012 - 06:46 PM

OCN

Did they do the OCN scan at less than 4K? If they did a 4K scan wouldn't it be relatively inexpensive to tranfer the picture to archival film?

#46 of 410 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted October 27 2012 - 12:23 AM

Did they do the OCN scan at less than 4K? If they did a 4K scan wouldn't it be relatively inexpensive to tranfer the picture to archival film?

Yes, but one needs a color and density correct image to record out to film. And they don't have one. Why go to the expense and trouble of recording a sow's ear to film for posterity? RAH
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"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#47 of 410 OFFLINE   Rob W

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Posted October 27 2012 - 08:50 AM

OCN

I'm confused. Aren't photochemical restorations (such as the one you did ) done to create new, high-quality printing materials because the original vault elements have become unusable ?

#48 of 410 OFFLINE   JoeDoakes

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Posted October 27 2012 - 08:56 AM

Yes, but one needs a color and density correct image to record out to film. And they don't have one. Why go to the expense and trouble of recording a sow's ear to film for posterity? RAH

This may be one of the places where my lack of knowledge shows, but I'll ask my question in the hope of learning something. Since they did a 4K scan, would doing an archival copy allow them to fix the color and density issues later when it's more cost feasible without worrying that the elements would further deteriorate? Conversely, with the nature of a digital conversion, are you saying that you have to get it right when you make an archival copy or it will be wrong forever? Thanks for you answers and your patience.

#49 of 410 OFFLINE   Matthew Anderson

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Posted October 27 2012 - 10:06 AM

Thanks Mr. Harris for taking the time to give your thoughts on this Hitchcock bluray. Like many others have said, I have been looking forward to to your thoughts on Vertigo which is my favorite Hitchcock film. The scene with Jimmy Stewart and Barbara Bel Geddes in her apt is one of my favorite scences with Scottie climbing the step stool. I thought the colors looked really good on my legacy dvd and I look forward to watching this on bluray.

#50 of 410 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted October 27 2012 - 12:10 PM

This may be one of the places where my lack of knowledge shows, but I'll ask my question in the hope of learning something. Since they did a 4K scan, would doing an archival copy allow them to fix the color and density issues later when it's more cost feasible without worrying that the elements would further deteriorate? Conversely, with the nature of a digital conversion, are you saying that you have to get it right when you make an archival copy or it will be wrong forever? Thanks for you answers and your patience.

Chances are, it would not. RAH
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"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#51 of 410 OFFLINE   Mark-P

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Posted October 27 2012 - 03:19 PM

This may be one of the places where my lack of knowledge shows, but I'll ask my question in the hope of learning something. Since they did a 4K scan, would doing an archival copy allow them to fix the color and density issues later when it's more cost feasible without worrying that the elements would further deteriorate? Conversely, with the nature of a digital conversion, are you saying that you have to get it right when you make an archival copy or it will be wrong forever? Thanks for you answers and your patience.

That's exactly what Disney has done with their entire library (as explained in this thread) They are scanning everything at 4K in order to preserve everything from further decay, and then will do the restoration work when then get around to it :)

#52 of 410 OFFLINE   Ransom Stoddard

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Posted October 30 2012 - 04:51 PM

You'd think multi-millionaires like Spielberg and Scorsese would throw some pocket change at Universal to make things perfect. I find it hard to believe that a film that has so many (wealthy) admirers is struggling for a budget to restore it properly.

#53 of 410 OFFLINE   haineshisway

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Posted October 30 2012 - 06:17 PM

I can now finally chime in on the films. I have spot-checked several now - here we go. Vertigo: Exactly as Mr. Harris states to the letter. Color off in the main titles at one point (not quite sure how it happened but it's obnoxious). And the handful of other problematic shots, but as he said, 90% of it looks pretty terrific - and unfortunately, that only makes the other 10% look even worse than it is. But what looks good looks VERY good and the color in 90% of the transfer is pretty damn accurate. I'll be watching it in its entirety soon.

#54 of 410 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted October 31 2012 - 07:24 AM

I find it hard to believe that a film that has so many (wealthy) admirers is struggling for a budget to restore it properly.

I find it hard to believe that Universal is not able to care properly for a movie of the caliber of Vertigo as they could have done more but chose not to. If it comes down to corporate greed, plain old incompetence or a mix of both I cannot say.

#55 of 410 OFFLINE   DustinPizarro

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Posted October 31 2012 - 07:43 AM

Despite details that this film could have been handled better, I find it very difficult to pass on this collection. Probably what the penny-crunching execs want to hear and i hate to reward them with my hard earned cash. That said, this is one of the best films I've ever seen and it's a must have in my collection and share with my family. Any other director and I would have passed.

#56 of 410 OFFLINE   Doctorossi

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Posted October 31 2012 - 07:58 AM

The problem with the new Vertigo restoration is that getting it correct would have been very, very easy.

Perhaps we can encourage them to "get it correct" in time for its individual release.

#57 of 410 OFFLINE   mikeyhitchfan

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Posted October 31 2012 - 09:32 AM

It looks awesome indeed and the 5.1 is now a pleasure to hear. They listened to the critics about the soundtrack of the original 5.1 and made changes. I haven't even listened to the mono yet to compare.



#58 of 410 OFFLINE   FatherMurphy

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Posted November 02 2012 - 01:38 AM

Thanks Mr. Harris. This has been a long time coming. VERTIGO deserved its own release. I received My set yesterday I got to watch vertigo I don't want to be unhappy but my expectations of been tempered by your review thank you very much for your honesty


#59 of 410 OFFLINE   Oblivion138

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Posted November 26 2012 - 02:29 PM

Interestingly, the back of the mini poster repro for Vertigo (at least in the Limited Edition UK set) lists the group commentary as a Blu-ray feature, but obviously, it's not on the disc. Also, the UK disc doesn't have the mono track...any idea why this is? First Universal downgrades Psycho's original audio to lossy for the US release, now they're including the mono track on the US release of Vertigo, but not the UK release...is this some kind of ADHD situation that they need to address? That said, the new 5.1 track is such a vast improvement over the previous 5.1 mix. As soon as I heard the gunshots in the opening rooftop chase, my face broke out in a big stupid grin. I'd still prefer to have the mono as an option, but at least this mix seems more faithful than Psycho, Jaws, et al.

#60 of 410 OFFLINE   DavidJ

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Posted November 26 2012 - 04:20 PM

Interestingly, the back of the mini poster repro for Vertigo (at least in the Limited Edition UK set) lists the group commentary as a Blu-ray feature, but obviously, it's not on the disc. Also, the UK disc doesn't have the mono track...any idea why this is? First Universal downgrades Psycho's original audio to lossy for the US release, now they're including the mono track on the US release of Vertigo, but not the UK release...is this some kind of ADHD situation that they need to address? That said, the new 5.1 track is such a vast improvement over the previous 5.1 mix. As soon as I heard the gunshots in the opening rooftop chase, my face broke out in a big stupid grin. I'd still prefer to have the mono as an option, but at least this mix seems more faithful than Psycho, Jaws, et al.

Good questions. I really wish the UK disc had included the mono.





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