-

Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

A few words about...™ Dial "M" for Murder (Take Two) -- in Blu-ray

A Few Words About

  • Please log in to reply
116 replies to this topic

#41 of 117 John Hermes

John Hermes

    Supporting Actor

  • 745 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 01 2007
  • Real Name:John Hermes
  • LocationLa Mesa (San Diego) CA

Posted October 06 2012 - 08:03 PM

Which Optima projector is that?

It is an older one, an HD80. I don't know, but I would imagine their higher up newer models (HD8200, HD8300, HD8600, and HD87) would likely have 6x wheels.

#42 of 117 Robin9

Robin9

    Screenwriter

  • 1,814 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 13 2006

Posted October 06 2012 - 08:27 PM

It is an older one, an HD80. I don't know, but I would imagine their higher up newer models (HD8200, HD8300, HD8600, and HD87) would likely have 6x wheels.

Thank you. (I'm looking to upgrade my projector in the near future and I have a high opinion of Optima)

#43 of 117 Mark-P

Mark-P

    Screenwriter

  • 2,245 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 26 2005
  • Real Name:Mark Probst
  • LocationCamas, WA

Posted October 07 2012 - 07:02 AM

If you are sensitive to the rainbow effect (some people aren't) then you will probably need to steer clear of any DLP projector which uses a color wheel, and that would be practically all consumer DLP projectors. The only DLPs that don't use a color wheel are three-chip DLPs and those cost tens of thousands of dollars.

You guys can basically disregard this advice I gave. Apparently DLP technology has drastically improved since I had my last DLP projector and there are many new models that have virtually eliminated the RBE. So happy hunting!

#44 of 117 Michel_Hafner

Michel_Hafner

    Supporting Actor

  • 739 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 28 2002

Posted October 07 2012 - 09:02 PM

I'm glad when 3D BDs are mastered like 2D with no compensation attempted for lacking 3D hardware (grading, ghost busting...) . I don't want to buy new versions when the hardware improves, as it will eventually. I have seen 3D at 14 ftl with laser projection. This kind of technology will become available for cinemas and home cinemas. I expect my 3D discs to work with it properly.

#45 of 117 Ken_McAlinden

Ken_McAlinden

    Producer

  • 6,068 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 20 2001
  • Real Name:Kenneth McAlinden
  • LocationLivonia, MI USA

Posted October 08 2012 - 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by Ray H 

Mr. Harris, could you comment on the "ringing" which is mentioned in the Blu-ray.com review? http://www.blu-ray.c...y/10453/#Review
I imagine it's the dupes you mention in your review, but I'm not overly familiar with this film. Can anyone comment on what these sections represent technically or historically to this film?


Originally Posted by Robert Harris 

The "ringing" are analogue anomalies found in dupes, as made in 1953-4, and there is no way around them.


They looked as horrible then, as they do now.


Duping to early separation stock, and back to camera negative, was simply way things had to be done at that time...


if one was going to create a single strand negative, which was a necessity of the Warner Color direct positive printing process.


RAH

Probably the all-time Warnercolor halo/ringing champion is George Stevens' "Giant" from 1956.  Not only did nearly every scene transition include a cross fade, but the dupe stock was used for the entire passage from the last cut before the shot that crossfades out all the way to the end of the first shot that crossfades in.   The shots before and after the fades were frequently quite long takes as was Stevens' style.


Ken McAlinden
Livonia, MI USA

#46 of 117 Yorkshire

Yorkshire

    Screenwriter

  • 1,266 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 22 2009

Posted October 08 2012 - 03:08 AM

Two projectors for home viewing? That is not an answer.

For what it's worth, SIM2 produce a high end DLP projector which can be hooked up with a 2nd unit for extra brightness, and I believe they've developed this as an answer to the 3D brightness problem. I think it's a solution best described as 'quite expensive'. Steve W
Correct a fool and he will hate you, correct a wise man and he will thank you.

#47 of 117 Robert Harris

Robert Harris

    Archivist

  • 7,449 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 08 1999
  • Real Name:Robert Harris

Posted October 08 2012 - 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by Ken_McAlinden 


Probably the all-time Warnercolor halo/ringing champion is George Stevens' "Giant" from 1956.  Not only did nearly every scene transition include a cross fade, but the dupe stock was used for the entire passage from the last cut before the shot that crossfades out all the way to the end of the first shot that crossfades in.   The shots before and after the fades were frequently quite long takes as was Stevens' style.

As I recall there is at least one dupe section that runs almost 200 feet.


"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#48 of 117 haineshisway

haineshisway

    Screenwriter

  • 2,152 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 26 2011
  • Real Name:Bruce
  • LocationLos Angeles

Posted October 08 2012 - 08:46 AM

Probably the all-time Warnercolor halo/ringing champion is George Stevens' "Giant" from 1956.  Not only did nearly every scene transition include a cross fade, but the dupe stock was used for the entire passage from the last cut before the shot that crossfades out all the way to the end of the first shot that crossfades in.   The shots before and after the fades were frequently quite long takes as was Stevens' style.

The real shame is the reviewer there blames it on the transfer. Sorry, if the transfer is replicating what the film has always looked like, then the transfer is doing its job.

#49 of 117 Reed Grele

Reed Grele

    Supporting Actor

  • 970 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 31 1969
  • Real Name:Reed Grele
  • LocationBeacon Falls, CT

Posted October 09 2012 - 03:31 PM

Have now watched the complete film in 3D on my Panny plasma 65". I'm afraid that RAH is correct. The 3D is a bit darker than the 2D. I also noticed ghosting in most every scene, appearing off to the left of the main image. Has anyone else noticed this? The picture had much better depth than I expected. And having heard that Hitchcock did not intend this to be a "pop -out" experience, it certainly isn't flat. The 3D effect was used to great advantage in almost every shot. Compositions must have been carefully worked out, and the results are very pleasing. I'll watch it next on my 120" screen, and see if it looks any different. If the same ghosting is present, I can try an adjustment that the LCD projector offers that the plasma does not. Of course, that's a trade off as well, and will only move the ghosting to a different plane. But it will be an interesting experiment. No complaints with the 2D transfer, but the 3D version really needs to be improved.

#50 of 117 Steve Tannehill

Steve Tannehill

    Producer

  • 5,495 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 06 1997
  • Real Name:Steve Tannehill
  • LocationDFW

Posted October 09 2012 - 03:38 PM

I watched the 3D version tonight on my Mitsubishi DLP WD-73838 and had no issues with it--no ghosting, only a little dark in places, especially when Swan is walking outside in the dark towards the flat. I was expecting the worst, and ended up being very pleased.

#51 of 117 Moe Dickstein

Moe Dickstein

    Filmmaker

  • 3,145 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 06 2001
  • Real Name:T R Wilkinson
  • LocationSherman Oaks, CA

Posted October 09 2012 - 10:27 PM

Am I crazy, or is the shot that begins at 1:28:49 and ending at 1:30:20 not in 3D? Most of the film is set back in the stereo window so without the glasses you see two images most times, but in this shot it looks like everything is 2D with and without glasses, except for a weird splitting during the jiggle of a move at 1:29:11 - watch with no glasses to really see it, with glasses on it looks like an odd distortion. Could this be a place where they only had one eye? If so, they should have done a conversion as its a lengthy shot and very noticeable that its not in depth.
Yes, these strange things happen all the time - PT Anderson, Magnolia

#52 of 117 Bob Furmanek

Bob Furmanek

    Producer

  • 3,387 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 10 2001

Posted October 11 2012 - 10:07 AM

Our new article is now on the website. We present our review of the new Blu-ray plus the background and history on this landmark 3-D production. We also clear up a few long-standing myths along the way! http://www.3dfilmarc...-blu-ray-review Greg Kintz and I hope you will enjoy it. Bob

Bob Furmanek

www.3dfilmarchive.com


Snipe_zpsa426c063.jpg


#53 of 117 Stephen_J_H

Stephen_J_H

    All Things Film Junkie

  • 3,960 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 30 2003
  • Real Name:Stephen J. Hill
  • LocationNorth of the 49th

Posted October 12 2012 - 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Moe Dickstein 

Am I crazy, or is the shot that begins at 1:28:49 and ending at 1:30:20 not in 3D?
Most of the film is set back in the stereo window so without the glasses you see two images most times, but in this shot it looks like everything is 2D with and without glasses, except for a weird splitting during the jiggle of a move at 1:29:11 - watch with no glasses to really see it, with glasses on it looks like an odd distortion.
Could this be a place where they only had one eye? If so, they should have done a conversion as its a lengthy shot and very noticeable that its not in depth.

Your answer is on Bob's Dial M article, about 3/4 of the way down. See linky above.


"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player."-- Roger Ebert

#54 of 117 rsmithjr

rsmithjr

    Supporting Actor

  • 803 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 22 2011
  • Real Name:Robert Smith
  • LocationPalo Alto, CA

Posted October 12 2012 - 09:51 AM

Bob, Thanks very much for this article about Dial M. I remember reading decades ago that Dial M had not been released in 3D. This was perpetuated when it was briefly released about 1980. Nice to have this history really cleared up. The Warner Color information is also very helpful. It sets a context for modern reviewers who would complain about the Blu-ray without understanding the problems. The dups and very bad special effects shots were visible the first time I saw the film (about 1961). Is there any reason to think that Hitchcock had any conscious realization of the problems with Warner Color? We know, of course, that he was on his way to Paramount with its vistaVision and dye-transfer Technicolor solution. I also felt that the 185 works very nicely on the Blu-ray. All of my 35mm viewings have been 133, which is also OK. I had worried that some of the framing would not be optimal, but it is just fine.

#55 of 117 Moe Dickstein

Moe Dickstein

    Filmmaker

  • 3,145 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 06 2001
  • Real Name:T R Wilkinson
  • LocationSherman Oaks, CA

Posted October 12 2012 - 10:13 AM

Your answer is on Bob's Dial M article, about 3/4 of the way down. See linky above.

Yeah I saw it, great piece - though it hadn't yet been posted when I inquired ;)
Yes, these strange things happen all the time - PT Anderson, Magnolia

#56 of 117 Michel_Hafner

Michel_Hafner

    Supporting Actor

  • 739 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 28 2002

Posted October 12 2012 - 07:02 PM

The "ringing" are analogue anomalies found in dupes, as made in 1953-4, and there is no way around them. RAH

Ringing is in " for a good reason, by the way. Technically speaking it's no ringing at all. Ringing does not look like that and it also not caused by the kind of process that caused the artifact.

#57 of 117 Robert Harris

Robert Harris

    Archivist

  • 7,449 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 08 1999
  • Real Name:Robert Harris

Posted October 13 2012 - 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by Michel_Hafner 


Ringing is in " for a good reason, by the way. Technically speaking it's no ringing at all. Ringing does not look like that and it also not caused by the kind of process that caused the artifact.

Quite correct.  Simply using the poster's terminology.  It was known, early on, as the "Mackie line" effect.   It was found in double dupes, and was a result of the "tanning effect" of the gelatin by the dichromate bleach along many edges separating light and dark areas of the image.


I didn't want to go there.


It can be seen in many early Eastman Color productions using dupes in post, or early replacement dupe sections that have not been upgraded as they should be.


Warner's lab was finally closed in 1958, with processing going to Technicolor.  The facility ended up supporting Technicolor's foray into amateur photography processing. If you find old prints, slides, etc. with the name Technicolor on them, this is where they would be have processed.




RAH


"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#58 of 117 Osato

Osato

    Screenwriter

  • 1,910 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 07 2001

Posted February 21 2013 - 10:16 AM

Robert - How does the blu ray compare with the DVD? I do not have 3D and have been waiting to pick this title up. It's about $30 right now... Anyway. I've yet to finish the Universal Hitchcock blu ray set, so I have plenty to watch at the moment. I have also not picked up Strangers on a Train or the 3 Criterion titles. Just trying to prioritize a bit. Thanks!

#59 of 117 Robert Harris

Robert Harris

    Archivist

  • 7,449 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 08 1999
  • Real Name:Robert Harris

Posted February 21 2013 - 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Osato 

Robert - How does the blu ray compare with the DVD? I do not have 3D and have been waiting to pick this title up. It's about $30 right now...

Anyway. I've yet to finish the Universal Hitchcock blu ray set, so I have plenty to watch at the moment. I have also not picked up Strangers on a Train or the 3 Criterion titles.

Just trying to prioritize a bit.

Thanks!

The 2D Blu-ray is a tad dark.  In 3D, it verges on unwatchable.


RAH


"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#60 of 117 TravisR

TravisR

    Studio Mogul

  • 21,795 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 15 2004
  • LocationThe basement of the FBI building

Posted February 21 2013 - 11:05 AM

In 3D, it verges on unwatchable.

Dial M For Murder is playing near me (in 3-D) in a few weeks so would a DCP most likely also suffer from the same problems as the Blu-ray?





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: A Few Words About

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users