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While we wait for A few words about...™ Raiders of the Lost Ark -- in Blu-ray

A Few Words About

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#21 of 705 Adam Gregorich

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Posted August 31 2012 - 08:26 PM

I've got more info about this release including a conversation with Ben Burtt where he goes into a fair amount of detail about how he originally recorded for Raiders and what he changed for the mix used on the Blu-ray.  Dennis Muren was also there talking about the SFX work.  I got to see the Raiders in IMAX as well.  Unfortunately its all under embargo until later this month Posted Image.  Make sure you have some room on your credit card as this set will come highly recommended.  For Indy fans, not only will the film be showing in IMAX, but AMC theaters will be showing all four Indiana Jones films in a marathon screening on September 15th starting at 10:30. (See www.amctheaters.com/indianajones for locations and to purchase advance tickets).



#22 of 705 Frank Ha

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Posted September 01 2012 - 12:58 AM

Hey, Scott. I was at that panel as well. It was awesome listening to the stories they shared about their involvement with the movies. I'm glad you posted about Ben Burtts comments on the audio for the blu-rays. I was a little confused about what he was saying and didn't catch that he said no new elements were added. Adam, I thought they were showing the marathon on Saturday the 15th. So Tuesday the 18th is the actual date?
"And in the end, the only thing you really own is... your story.  Just trying to live a good one" - The Drover 

#23 of 705 Adam Gregorich

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Posted September 01 2012 - 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by Frank Ha 

Hey, Scott. I was at that panel as well. It was awesome listening to the stories they shared about their involvement with the movies. I'm glad you posted about Ben Burtts comments on the audio for the blu-rays. I was a little confused about what he was saying and didn't catch that he said no new elements were added.

Adam, I thought they were showing the marathon on Saturday the 15th. So Tuesday the 18th is the actual date?

Nope the 15th.  I shouldn't be allowed to post after 1AM Posted Image.  I have edited my post above.



#24 of 705 David Weicker

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Posted September 01 2012 - 03:04 AM

I happen to think that 'Restoration' is the correct and proper term. Any action that takes something and makes it look like it did originally is a restoration. For example, if I have a car, and it gets scratched. It no longer looks like when I bought it. If I remove the scratch, and it now looks like it did, by definition, I have restored it to its former state. Just because the work done on this movie doesn't match RAH's personal definition of the word Restoration, doesn't mean that it wasn't restored in some way or another. On another note, do we know what has been done with the other three films in this set. I realize that the press release really only talks about Raiders Of The Lost Ark, and doesn't mention anything special being done for the others. And many people have taken this omission in the press to mean we are getting crappy versions of the other films. I, personally, interpret this lack of information as just that - a lack of information. I'm wondering if we know anything else about preparation of the other films. David

#25 of 705 Adam Gregorich

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Posted September 01 2012 - 03:21 AM

Originally Posted by David Weicker 

On another note, do we know what has been done with the other three films in this set. I realize that the press release really only talks about Raiders Of The Lost Ark, and doesn't mention anything special being done for the others. And many people have taken this omission in the press to mean we are getting crappy versions of the other films. I, personally, interpret this lack of information as just that - a lack of information.

I'm wondering if we know anything else about preparation of the other films.

David

The first three films were all given the same treatment starting with 4K scans.  Temple and Crusade were in better shape so they didn't need to spend as much time on the cleanup/restoration (pick your term).  From what I gather they are using the same transfer on Crystal Skull as they did in its original BD release, which isn't a bad thing as Robert Harris originally had this to say:


Quote:


As far as the Blu-ray disc is concerned, there is only great news.

As a digital intermediate, the film has been magnificently down-rezzed to HD, and the resultant Blu-ray disc is as crisp and clean as any modern film can be.

Everything here is perfect including the Dolby TrueHD audio.



#26 of 705 Robert Harris

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Posted September 01 2012 - 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by David Weicker 

I happen to think that 'Restoration' is the correct and proper term. Any action that takes something and makes it look like it did originally is a restoration.
For example, if I have a car, and it gets scratched. It no longer looks like when I bought it. If I remove the scratch, and it now looks like it did, by definition, I have restored it to its former state.
Just because the work done on this movie doesn't match RAH's personal definition of the word Restoration, doesn't mean that it wasn't restored in some way or another.
On another note, do we know what has been done with the other three films in this set. I realize that the press release really only talks about Raiders Of The Lost Ark, and doesn't mention anything special being done for the others. And many people have taken this omission in the press to mean we are getting crappy versions of the other films. I, personally, interpret this lack of information as just that - a lack of information.
I'm wondering if we know anything else about preparation of the other films.
David

You're using a very bold and general concept of "restoration."  If one gets a small tear in a jacket, and a tailor mends the tear, or if the scratch on one's car is buffed out, I would consider those to be fixed in some way.


The problem with "restoring" Raiders is that it was not in need of "restoration."  Huge difference between cleaning a new car sitting in a dealer's lot, which needs to be prepped before delivery to the first owner, and a frame off "restoration" of, for example, a '57 XK-140.


Can a new car, which is undamaged, be in need of "restoration?"


Doubtful.


Motion pictures, when in true need of restoration, require inventories to locate elements, inspection of said elements.  Creation of continuities to track missing shots, frames, reels.  Playback of all original tracks to find which, if any, can be reproduced before restoration and preservation, etc.


I had a discussion of a lab guy years ago, who loved to use the word "restoration."  His definition was that if a negative came in, was printed and minus density was seen in the print...


and if that negative was put through an ultra-sonic cleaner, with the next print having less dirt, then he had "restored" the film.


It can also be viewed as something time sensitive.  If a reel of negative is put on a cleaning machine by a tech, who then walks away for ten minutes, returns, and goes on to the next reel, there's no heavy lifting.


But as detailed above, if a project takes months of full-time labor, or years...


that's far different than taking some rubbing compound to a scratch until it disappears, and then hitting it with a bit of wax.


How do you fix something that isn't damaged?


RAH


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#27 of 705 Dee Zee

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Posted September 01 2012 - 04:18 AM

Maybe "Restored through Digital Remastering" would be more appropriate term for films like "Raider?" It keeps the marketing people happy but sends a code to informed consumers that this is not a massive restoration like that of LofA. IMHO

#28 of 705 Robert Harris

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Posted September 01 2012 - 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by Dee Zee 

Maybe "Restored through Digital Remastering" would be more appropriate term for films like "Raider?" It keeps the marketing people happy but sends a code to informed consumers that this is not a massive restoration like that of LofA. IMHO

That says "digitally restored."


There is no restoration occurring.


Digitally remastered if fine, but that has no sizzle.


RAH


"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#29 of 705 FoxyMulder

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Posted September 01 2012 - 06:03 AM

If you look at my profile you will see Raiders as one of my favourite films, i have seen it well over 120 times over the years, at the cinema and on various formats, i am glad it is being treated to the best possible care and attention, i also hope, going by what has been said that we are getting a blu ray that resembles what's on the OCN and not a third generation cinema print ala Jaws, that's a matter of preference but i'd prefer to see a bit more than what you get from the average cinema print.


I hope that whip in the opening moments of Raiders pans across the soundstage from front and rear speakers like it did on the VHS release ( pro-logic with mono surrounds ) many years ago, the DVD was lacking something in the sound department, at least to my ears, i hope just like the Star Wars films we get a hot mix, i like it hot.


I hope the info on Temple and Crusade is correct, i was fearing the worst and thinking they were going to re-use old masters.


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#30 of 705 Doctorossi

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Posted September 01 2012 - 07:46 AM

This is nice info and will make me happy, when they get around to releasing these movies individually so I can buy just the one I want.

#31 of 705 FoxyMulder

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Posted September 01 2012 - 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Doctorossi 

This is nice info and will make me happy, when they get around to releasing these movies individually so I can buy just the one I want.


After i buy the boxset i will happily sell you Indiana Jones and the Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull, cheaply too.


     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

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#32 of 705 Doctorossi

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Posted September 01 2012 - 09:00 AM

After i buy the boxset i will happily sell you Indiana Jones and the Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull, cheaply too.

Thanks, Malcolm, but I said the one I want.

#33 of 705 FoxyMulder

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Posted September 01 2012 - 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Doctorossi 


Thanks, Malcolm, but I said the one I want.


Hey some people claim its the best film of the Indy series, now sure their guide dogs helped them reach that decision but.....


     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

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#34 of 705 JoshZ

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Posted September 01 2012 - 09:35 AM

That says "digitally restored." There is no restoration occurring. Digitally remastered if fine, but that has no sizzle.

Clearly, the proper course of action is to invent a new word that combines the best qualities of both phrases. Therefore, I humbly submit: "Digital Remastoration(TM)." I'm slapping a trademark on that right away. I expect reimbursement when studios start using it in their marketing materials, e.g. "This film has been digitally remastorated." :)

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#35 of 705 Doctorossi

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Posted September 01 2012 - 09:49 AM

I always remastorate digitally. *ahem* "Digitally Re-purposed for the Home Cinema"?

#36 of 705 rsmithjr

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Posted September 01 2012 - 10:24 AM

The world seems to have adopted the term "restore" in a more general sense than this forum allows. There is a case to be made for this. Looking up the root word "restore" in a few dictionares, something like the following comes across as a standard meaning: "a return of something to a former, original, normal, or unimpaired condition" According to this definition, a film might be considered "restored" if it is brought back to what it originally looked and sounded like. This suggests nothing about the method used to achieve the result. It could be as simple as striking a new print from a negative in excellent condition, or as complex as searching the globe for fragments of film and going through various photochemical and/or digital steps to achieve the result. I wonder if going with the common parlance wouldn't have some benefit here and saying it is "restored" based mostly on the quality of the improvement over previous available versions and less on the details of what was necessary to achieve this.

#37 of 705 Moe Dickstein

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Posted September 01 2012 - 11:22 AM

This is nice info and will make me happy, when they get around to releasing these movies individually so I can buy just the one I want.

Crusade?
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#38 of 705 Adam Gregorich

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Posted September 01 2012 - 11:46 AM

How about digital cleanup?



#39 of 705 nealg

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Posted September 01 2012 - 01:33 PM

How about renaming the "heavy-lifting" type of film restoration instead? Full-Throttle Restoration or Genesis II Restoration! Now that's exciting! "Full" or "Complete Restoration" might be more accurate, but wouldn't have as much sizzle. But seriously, why not simply grade restorations by level? For example, films receiving only minimal effort, say 2K scan and little to no digital or optical cleanup would be classified as a Level 1 Restoration. At the other extreme, a film like Lawrence might be a Level 10 Restoration, assuming that accounts for "restorations" falling between those two extremes. Levels between might include, by definition, 2K scan, 4K scan, use of DNR or EE, audio clean-up, use of original or new sound mix, etc. The "Levels" could be codified and agreed upon by the industry, printed on the cover, and described with a footnote on the back cover. Or, a footnote could provide a link where consumers could access the official definitions of all the restoration levels online. Hey, a guy can dream, right?

#40 of 705 Johnny Angell

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Posted September 01 2012 - 01:47 PM

How about digital cleanup?

It would take a very fine broom to sweep up all the bits. :D
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