Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo

Johnny Eager (1942) DVD from Warner Archive


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
33 replies to this topic

#21 of 34 OFFLINE   Robin9

Robin9

    Screenwriter



  • 1,902 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 13 2006

Posted August 25 2012 - 08:40 AM

Again and again we hear the same invalid complaint that Warner's Archive titles are not available to people in other countries. Not true! Not true at all! The Archive titles - plus Sony and Universal and now Fox MOD discs - can be purchased from several online vendors who will gladly export to Canada, Europe and probably anywhere else. Deep Discount, Oldies.com, Movies Unimited, DVD Pacific, CD Imports: they all ship overseas!

#22 of 34 OFFLINE   Nebiroth

Nebiroth

    Supporting Actor



  • 748 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 24 2008

Posted August 25 2012 - 08:44 PM

It's a valid complaint because the Archive itself does not ship overseas. Originally the Archive was intended to be an exclusive source - indeed, one of the arguments about it's very creation was that it was making titles available that otherwise wouldn't be released because it would be producing them as needed directly, without all the extra costs of distributing the discs to third party suppliers; these titles were simply not going to seel enough to justify doing that, it wouldn;t be profitable (we were told - this now rings rather hollow given that the Archive is now available from the usual online sources, if not in bricks and mortar stores). Evidently, then, these DVD's are selling in substantial numbers - I would venture to suggest that they are selling so well, in fact, that they probably would have been viable as standard pressed DVD's. In essence, the Archive has morphed into the traditional DVD model, except that the discs are coming out of burner towers at Warner instead of a factory in Mexico. But that is a different argument and I digress from the point. On top of that, however, international buyers have some very valid complaints: first, there is often a lengthy delay between titles being released and appearing in stores like Amazon. Second, there is usually a substantial price difference - far from the usual practise of Amazon being able to use their position to bulk buy and other economies of scale and thus selling at discounts, prices on Amazon (and elsewhere) are usually even higher than the already pretty eye-watering "RRP" of buying from the Archive direct. Third, one of the ways that the Archive keeps prices as actually affordable rather than permamently extortionate is there are never-ending rounds of special offers, sales, discount tokens and the like. You'd have to be pretty crazy to buy stuff from the Archive when there isn;t a special offer running. None of these are of course available to international buyers. So yes, whilst it is correct to say that Archive titles are available to overseas buyers, it remains that the Archive itself is not. And this means that overseas buyers are faced with prices that are extreme. They're pretty expensive to buy when you can get them from the Archive. But once you add in Amazon's mark-up, plus international shipping and potentially Customs charges and import taxes on top, it becomes a very expensive business. For example - I am in the UK. If I want a title that's in the Archive, I have to buy it from Amazon (or some other online store, but Amazon are the obvious choice these days). Amazon mark up the base price from $19 to $27, although they usually discount it again - but it's still more expensive than it is in the Archive. Then you can add another $7 in international shipping. Due to import considerations, I'd have to either order these things one at a time or face another 20% in import taxes and a fee from the mail carrier for handling import-due items. So that $19 disc has turned into a $35 disc. Many of these items actually exceed the import allowance on their own, so a $35 disc rapidly becomes a $45 disc. So whilst you're correct, it is possible for overseas buyers to obtain them, it's an extremely painful experience. I think that overseas buyers have grounds to complain!

#23 of 34 OFFLINE   Robin9

Robin9

    Screenwriter



  • 1,902 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 13 2006

Posted August 25 2012 - 09:25 PM

Richard, I'm sorry but you are obviously making things difficult for yourself. Don't buy from Amazon. It's as simple as that. They are more expensive than their competitors. Buy from the other vendors I listed - and price compare between them for each and every title - and you will find that they can supply at reasonable prices. Only when Warners Archive has a special deal are their prices competitive. Most of the time at least one of the "etailers" I listed will undercut Warners' price.

#24 of 34 OFFLINE   Nick*Z

Nick*Z

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 229 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 30 2003
  • Real Name:NICK

Posted August 26 2012 - 01:00 AM

Richard, you're quite right about the prices spinning out of control for international consumers. I know because I live in Canada, and while Robin gives some good suggestions, I can tell you from personal experience that ordering from at least two of his suggested online retails still bumps the price from $19 to $29.99 minus my duty and import fees. So, you really don't have much recourse or relief for that matter. Again, Warner needs to get with the times. You are quite right when you say that the archive MOD has replaced DVD output at WB. My very sincere hope is that WB will see the light with third party distribution one of these days. Their collection is too vast for one company to successfully manage. The proof is not in the quantity of product being offered the consumer, but in the overall quality which frankly, and more often than not, just isn't there. The quality issue would not even be an issue if we were back in the 'bad ol' days of VHS because then consumer expectations for home video were very low indeed. I mean, we didn't even challenge the studios to release movies in their original aspect ratio then! But the time that has elapsed since has resulted in quantum advancements in picture, sound and preservation and restoration techniques. All of the aforementioned have conspired to make the consumer more savvy in their desires for quality over quantity and all have raised the bar, or level of expectation, for what seems acceptable on home video by today's standards. Bottom line: you can't go back once you've gone ahead. The debut of Blu-ray stifled a lot of studios. They suddenly realized they lacked sufficient HD quality transfers on their extensive backlog of titles and tried a couple of things to cope with the shortage. First, they tried bumping up old 720p video elements to 1080p signals to get by. But consumers who had already seen true 1080p re-scans of a movie could instantly see the difference. So the message boards lit up in protest. Studios are still using tire elements rather than doing 4 or 8k re-scans because - no kidding - its cheaper and less time consuming. But it hasn't yielded the same results, nor can it, and consumers are not falling for it anymore. Again, the upgrade from VHS to laserdisc was good, but not great. The upgrade from VHS to DVD was enormous. The upgrade from DVD to Blu-ray (done properly) represents another quantum leap forward. But digital downloads and burn on demand MOD formats are not progressive. In fact, they are a giant step backward from the HD format. But now, I digress from my point. Warner vaults are bursting with acquisitions from the RKO, Selznick, MGM libraries, to say nothing of their own. And WB has done one heck of a grand job making darn near obscure titles available to us. But the time has come for them to reconsider their marketing methodology. I understand Robert's point, that at present WB has zero interest in doing this. However, executive logic frequently follows the money trail and consumer trends. If the consumer floods the front offices with inquiries about such third party distribution, and sales of MOD titles taper to a trickle, the wheel, as they say, will have to be reinvented to keep the money rolling in. I'm not suggesting the archive is obsolete. As I said a while back. It has made very obscure titles available in whatever condition to collectors who probably never thought they'd see these films ever again. So, Bravo WB and good show. But the archive has also become a dumping ground for better films, of which Johnny Eager I include among them, that indeed deserve much better than what they're currently getting and that issue needs to be readdressed by WB pronto! In my opinion, third party distribution through Twilight Time for Blu-ray upgrades would be the best of all possible options. Screen Archives has proven they can sell a vintage title on Blu-ray at a relatively attractive price point and still get their money's worth.

#25 of 34 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

Robert Crawford

    Studio Mogul



  • 25,020 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 09 1998
  • Real Name:Robert
  • LocationMichigan

Posted August 26 2012 - 02:27 AM

I'm sorry, but the titles from Twlight Time isn't at an attractive price point when each BRD is sold by them at 29.95 plus shipping and tax without any bonus material.







Crawdaddy


Crawdaddy

 

Blu-ray Preorder Listing

 


#26 of 34 OFFLINE   Nebiroth

Nebiroth

    Supporting Actor



  • 748 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 24 2008

Posted August 26 2012 - 02:35 AM

Richard, I'm sorry but you are obviously making things difficult for yourself. Don't buy from Amazon. It's as simple as that. They are more expensive than their competitors. Buy from the other vendors I listed - and price compare between them for each and every title - and you will find that they can supply at reasonable prices. Only when Warners Archive has a special deal are their prices competitive. Most of the time at least one of the "etailers" I listed will undercut Warners' price.

This is in some cases true, however, Amazon have considerably cheaper international shipping (espescially since they have a fixed $2.49 per item price, and multiple disc sets count as one item - not matter how large - whereas everyone else counts a three disc set as three items) Moreover, customer service and espescially no quibble replacement upon none delivery is much mor eimportant when you live outside of the USA - Amazon have by far and away the best. And certain suppliers I have learnt to avoid. DeepDiscount is one of these. I used to shop with DVDPacific a lot, but sadly, they then changed ownership and it;s just not the same.

#27 of 34 OFFLINE   Nebiroth

Nebiroth

    Supporting Actor



  • 748 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 24 2008

Posted August 26 2012 - 02:40 AM

I'm sorry, but the titles from Twlight Time isn't at an attractive price point when each BRD is sold by them at 29.95 plus shipping and tax without any bonus material. Crawdaddy

It's about the same pricepoint as an Archive disc - which is a DVD without any bonus material for $19.95 - with presumably the same issues over tax although not shipping. The Twlight Time discs are of course BD, which cost more to produce, and they are limited editions, which alway shave a higher pricepoint. But I would say that Twilight Time and Archive prices are roughly the same - once one allows for one being BD and not DVD,

#28 of 34 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

Robert Crawford

    Studio Mogul



  • 25,020 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 09 1998
  • Real Name:Robert
  • LocationMichigan

Posted August 26 2012 - 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by Nebiroth 


It's about the same pricepoint as an Archive disc - which is a DVD without any bonus material for $19.95 - with presumably the same issues over tax although not shipping.
The Twlight Time discs are of course BD, which cost more to produce, and they are limited editions, which alway shave a higher pricepoint.
But I would say that Twilight Time and Archive prices are roughly the same - once one allows for one being BD and not DVD,

I have never bought a BRD from TT for less than 29.95 plus shipping and tax!  I have bought 250 WA titles for less than half that price as I utilized coupons and sales which TT hasn't done so far.  International consumers might not see the difference, but domestic consumers have seen the difference in the final sale prices.


Crawdaddy

 

Blu-ray Preorder Listing

 


#29 of 34 OFFLINE   Nebiroth

Nebiroth

    Supporting Actor



  • 748 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 24 2008

Posted August 26 2012 - 03:23 AM

Yes, like I said - the base point for prices in the Archive and Twilight Time are roughly the same (once one allows for the fact that TT are BluRay) The Archive just plays around by having endless sales and coupons, whereas TT doesn't.

#30 of 34 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

Robert Crawford

    Studio Mogul



  • 25,020 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 09 1998
  • Real Name:Robert
  • LocationMichigan

Posted August 26 2012 - 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by Nebiroth 

Yes, like I said - the base point for prices in the Archive and Twilight Time are roughly the same (once one allows for the fact that TT are BluRay)
The Archive just plays around by having endless sales and coupons, whereas TT doesn't.

 As a consumer, I don't care about the MSRP or base price.  I care about the final price to me.  I for one like the playing around by WA with their sales and coupons.


I can't believe I wasted my 20,000 post arguing about WA pricing.


Crawdaddy

 

Blu-ray Preorder Listing

 


#31 of 34 OFFLINE   Bob Cashill

Bob Cashill

    Screenwriter



  • 2,226 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 15 2001

Posted August 26 2012 - 04:02 AM

...and you'll probably waste another 20,000 posts arguing about WA pricing. And other Archive-related issues, brought up again and again by the same understandably disgruntled international buyers. Wishing that Warner would suddenly let, say, Olive, handle its wares, or that its MODs would drop in price and be more widely available, isn't going to make it so. If it does change, you'll read about it here for sure, but for now there's nothing new to say about this topic.

#32 of 34 OFFLINE   Nick*Z

Nick*Z

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 229 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 30 2003
  • Real Name:NICK

Posted August 26 2012 - 06:13 AM

Well, clearly the matter was of some interest to you. And price point - like it or not - is a deciding factor in most purchases these days. Gone are the halcyon "I want it therefore I will buy it whatever it costs" mentality that once fueled the collector's market. Today, collector's have become very savvy with waiting for the sales to kick in. You still have the 'early adopter' mindset that has to own a title day and date. And certainly companies like Disney try to force the consumer's hand by placing a limited time for general release before recalling a title back to their vaults. But Nebiroth is quite right. Twilight Time Blu-ray discs retail for approximately the same price as archive DVD-R's in the foreign market. But Blu costs more to produce and the quality of Blu to DVD-R is an apples to oranges comparison at best. What it really boils down to is which would you rather have in your possession - a classic on DVD-R or a classic on Blu-ray? I know which I would prefer.

#33 of 34 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

Robert Crawford

    Studio Mogul



  • 25,020 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 09 1998
  • Real Name:Robert
  • LocationMichigan

Posted August 26 2012 - 06:36 AM

Actually, I don't know what the hell we're arguing about, as not one person in this thread doesn't wish the products were cheaper and more available to purchase.  With that said, it is, what it is.







Crawdaddy


Crawdaddy

 

Blu-ray Preorder Listing

 


#34 of 34 OFFLINE   JoHud

JoHud

    Screenwriter



  • 2,728 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 11 2007
  • Real Name:Joe Hudak

Posted August 26 2012 - 06:55 AM

What it really boils down to is which would you rather have in your possession - a classic on DVD-R or a classic on Blu-ray? I know which I would prefer.

Why not both? It's great when niche and deep catalog titles can get premium treatment through different venues, but its not like I'm expecting the majority of WAC titles, or other MOD releases for that matter, to suddenly become viable blu-ray releases. Even the lucrative Criterion Collection has a DVD-only Eclipse line, which have some titles that could be argued "blu-ray worthy." Also, isn't the big beef on Twilight Time about them never having any sales? It's not like they don't have their critics. I still buy most of their stuff, though.