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Help me pick one of these receivers


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#1 of 15 EricHaas

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Posted December 25 2001 - 12:26 PM

I am an HT neophyte, putting together a new system on a budget of about $1700, with $500-600 alloted to the receiver and the balance alloted to the speakers (have DVD player already).
I am setting up a 5.1 channel system, but I want a 6.1 capable receiver for the future (I will live with the receiver for 2 yrs+). I also want PLII as a feature because I will run some analog sources. Speakers will be bookshelf and/or micro sized, most likely either Paradigm or Energy (see other post). I have narrowed my receiver choices to the following:

Outlaw 1050 ($499)
Pros: Great reviews, supposed to have top sound in this price class. Great build quality.

Cons: Cannot preview the sound (online purcahse only), does not support DTS ES, ugly face plate.

Denon 2802 ($510)
Pros: Has all the features I want, solid reputation. I previewed it and it sounds good.

Cons: poor remote.

Onkyo 696 ($580)
Pros: Solid reputation, sounded slightly better than 2802 (but speakers were different in my screening), great remote.

Cons: no 6.1, slightly more expensive.

Any suggestions would be great. Also, I would consider moving up to the Denon 3802 ($690) but I see very little difference in the spec. sheet between the 2802 and 3802. That would reduce my speaker budget by $200. Is it worth it? Another remote consideration is the Onkyo 797 ($730).

#2 of 15 Eric_M

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Posted December 25 2001 - 04:34 PM

I too am in the market for a new receiver.
Where did you see the 2802 for that price?

I have yet to find a store that carries that one

Right now I am leaning on the Onkyo596 as I got a chance to hear it and it sounds nice. However if you say you can get the Denon 2802 for that price...

The Outlaw gets solid reviews but the things holding me back are no DPII, no phono input.

#3 of 15 EricHaas

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Posted December 25 2001 - 05:16 PM

Yup, the lack of PLII on the 1050 is holding me back too.

Here is a vendor that has the 2802 for $502:

http://shop.store.ya...ital/30018.html

Just check out shopping.yahoo.com and enter "2802" into the search prompt. There are 3 vendors between $502 and $505 on this one.

It's a tough choice between the Denon 2802 and the Onkyo 696. BTW, the 696 runs $562 at yahoo shopping. And one of those vendors has $25 ground shipping on that piece.

The Denon has 6.1 and the Onkyo doesn't. The Onkyo has a great remote and the Denon's sucks. I am a newbie so this matters to me. Unfortunately, you have to go up to the 797 ($750) to get 6.1 in the Onkyo line. That's steep for their cheapest 6.1 receiver.

Any opinions?

#4 of 15 Justin Lane

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Posted December 25 2001 - 05:34 PM

Eric, I would go with the Denon if I were you because it has everything you are looking for. The remote is not that big a deal because you will probably want to upgrade to a pronto or maybe a Sony av-2100 anyway somewhere along the line once your systems grow. A very nice remote can make a big difference in a system.

J

#5 of 15 Eric_M

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Posted December 25 2001 - 05:53 PM

OK thanks
A couple of problems I hear with the Denons however are , one is warranty issues. I hear unless you get it from an authorised dealer you can run into some issues if ever you need it fixed. I don't know how severe the problems are with the warranty. Perhaps someone can give some info on this.

The other thing is concerning some audio drop outs with certain films I just read on this forum. I believe the 1802 has it , not sure about the 2802 though.

#6 of 15 EricHaas

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Posted December 25 2001 - 06:18 PM

Does anyone have an opinion on the sound quality of the 2802 v. the 696?

Also, one issue that concerns me is there is a DD decoding bug affecting the 2802 that only affects two movies right now, JP3 and Pearl Harbor. I am concerned this could carry over to yet to be released DD titles.

The other Eric's concern about the warranty is a valid one. Denon's website says the warranty "may" not be valid if you do not purchase from an authorized seller. Most online vendors are NOT authorized, and the cheapest authorized seller I can find (Crutchfields) is $285 more. That's a lot of scratch. I have some difficutly believing a warranty, which is a binding legal guaranty, is not enforceable if you do not buy from an approved vendor, but I wouldn't want to be have take Denon to court to test that out.

Onkyo warranties up to six months through "black channels" - 24 months through authorized channels. Six months isn't the greatest, but I rather have that than the possibility of nothing.

#7 of 15 David Cohn

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Posted December 26 2001 - 02:27 AM

Do a forum search on "Denon" and "warranty". There have been several threads discussing this (highly flammable!) topic.

I just received my Denon 2802 on Monday. Love it so far. The Pro Logic II (music mode) is a revelation for CDs. Hopefully, will convince the wife to install a back surround speaker in the ceiling ... then I can fully explore the Denon's six-channel abilities.

In case you're wondering, paid $550 + $20 shipping from www.reliableaudiovideo.com. Arrived on-time and double-boxed as I have come to expect from Reliable.

#8 of 15 Justin Lane

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Posted December 26 2001 - 02:36 AM

Eric, you should do some research with who you are buying the unit from. Alot of times the stores that sell the Denons online actually have a real B&M storefront where they do everyday business. If something goes wrong, you may only have to send the unit back to them and they will work it out for you to get a replacement and it looks like the Denon warranty is still valid.

At the very least I would make sure they gave you 30 days (or more) warranty just to make sure everything works. Usually at least with receivers if nothing dies over the first couple months, you should be good for the lifetime of the unit.

J

#9 of 15 EricHaas

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Posted December 26 2001 - 03:04 AM

Thanks for your replies. I am leaning toward the Denon. Does anyone know if you can hook up 2 rear speakers for that 6th channel?

#10 of 15 David Cohn

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Posted December 26 2001 - 04:24 AM

Eric,

The Denon 2802 has 6 amplified channels at 90wpc (these are high quality watts); it does not have amplification for two surround/back channels.

You would have to use the pre/outs to an outboard amplifier.

Still, a heck of a product for $550 online.

#11 of 15 balwinder

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Posted December 26 2001 - 05:29 AM

Hey Eric,

I can get you a really good deal on Sony DA3ES receiver, Good Guys has it in their store if you like to look at it. Its selling for $999 at Good guys but I can get it for you about $650 plus tax and S&H. This is one of the be best receivers out there, I just bought one for myself.

Let me know if want you want one.

- Balwinder

#12 of 15 Eric_M

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Posted December 26 2001 - 05:57 AM

I just finished reading on another thread that the 2802 is free of the audio dropout problem. If anyone can confirm this it would be appreciated.

This is really tough. The Onkyo 595 I was considering is $500 at Circuit City yet for another 70 or so you can get the 2802 online which sounds like a better reciever online. However the catch is you have to worry about the warranty.

OK I just checked out reliable audio and video and they seem to honor the warranty. As stated in thier site..

"Reliable A/V dealers honor the original manufacturer warranty, exactly as stipulated by the manufacturer, for the length of the original warranty. In the event any repair is needed within this period, we will arrange to pickup, repair, and return the item at Reliable's expense."

So I assume they cover the 2 year warranty that is stated in the Denon section.

It seems like online is a better choice as I stated that for about the same price you can get a 2802 over the 595 at a store. The only thing is if something does go wrong than you have to ship it back and pay restocking fees etc.




#13 of 15 Brian Bowles

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Posted December 26 2001 - 06:07 AM

I have the 595 and I really like it. Although there is the audio dropout problem. I have it on jp3 and ph. I can run those movies in dts and the problem goes away.

#14 of 15 Eric_M

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Posted December 26 2001 - 09:49 AM

Hmm that is the first I hear of the 595 having this problem. I thought it was the 787 and the higher end ones.
The same goes for Denon though it is reported the 1802 has it.

#15 of 15 Al Roberts

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Posted December 27 2001 - 08:39 PM

for what its worth I just ordered my Onkyo 595 from J&R Music World shipped for 393.50 I found it at audiosound.com
for 349? but shipping was around 45 bucks. I called J&R and they beat the price.