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HAMMER FILM BLU-RAYS IN THE U.K. ... getting closer to the Holy Grail (DRACULA, 1958)...


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#321 of 350 OFFLINE   kinzoels

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Posted April 13 2013 - 04:26 PM

Oh I get it.. My callibrated set is reading a disc of a film that's been poorly mastered, is a bad print or whatever, but I must, according to you, watch it in callibrated/reference setting because that's how its suppose to look...PHEW!!!!......I'll try this one more time....If my calibrated T.V. (reference) is playing a disc, and is interpreting how that disc really looks, and that disc STILL looks like s..t, I'm going to use my option at trying some adjustments to arrive at a more pleasing picture. What is it don't you understand about this premise?

#322 of 350 OFFLINE   Paul Penna

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Posted April 13 2013 - 09:10 PM

The ideal calibration would result in one's display exactly replicating what someone somewhere saw on theirs and approved it for distribution. If to my eyes that looked crappy, you better believe I'd have no moral qualms over adjusting it to taste.



#323 of 350 OFFLINE   tele1962

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Posted April 13 2013 - 11:01 PM

I fully understand what your saying, but me Good, Bad Or Ugly i will watch it the way it is, otherwise what is the point of a calibrated display. Your entitled to adjust to what ever you like ( remembering that our eyes are a poor judge of colour ) that is your prerogative. Just as long as no one is adjusting like you are then coming on here and saying this is the way it's supposed to look.

 

You originally said you had to make quite big adjustments to this version compared to the region 1, so you " prefer "  the look of the region 1 DVD.

 

" knew that I would need a region free player for this film, and didn't mind as it is my favorite film..and since it's the only film I'll be watching on it, I'm able to adjust the video specifically for it..however, when I look at the setting's I've chosen, it is clearly evident that I've had to make settings quite unlike my region 1 which plays the rest of my film collection..this to me is a "sort" of red flag that something is not quite right with the transfer (even though It looks real good on my region free settings)... Not everyone has this option, and I don't believe anyone should have to make these drastic adjustments to get this film to look good...and I'd apreciate no one telling me my monitor is off..it's callibrated correctly thank you very much...Now...where's ROBERT HARRIS and his thoughts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

 

So if i am reading this correctly you are adjusting to what you think it should look like, then because you had to do this you are saying something isn't right with the transfer?


Edited by tele1962, April 14 2013 - 12:07 AM.


#324 of 350 OFFLINE   tele1962

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Posted April 13 2013 - 11:04 PM

The ideal calibration would result in one's display exactly replicating what someone somewhere saw on theirs and approved it for distribution. If to my eyes that looked crappy, you better believe I'd have no moral qualms over adjusting it to taste.

 

That is not the point i am making. My original post was to do with people making Judgements on PQ using screen grabs, and more often than not viewing these on uncalibrated monitors. It can't be done!



#325 of 350 OFFLINE   tele1962

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Posted April 13 2013 - 11:18 PM

Oh I get it.. My callibrated set is reading a disc of a film that's been poorly mastered, is a bad print or whatever, but I must, according to you, watch it in callibrated/reference setting because that's how its suppose to look...PHEW!!!!......I'll try this one more time....If my calibrated T.V. (reference) is playing a disc, and is interpreting how that disc really looks, and that disc STILL looks like s..t, I'm going to use my option at trying some adjustments to arrive at a more pleasing picture. What is it don't you understand about this premise?

 

 

I fully understand what your saying, but me Good, Bad Or Ugly i will watch it the way it is. Your entitled to adjust to what ever you like ( remembering that our eyes are a poor judge of colour ) that is your prerogative. Just as long as no one is adjusting like you are then coming on here and saying this is the way it's supposed to look.

I  would like to add come down off your high horse and try listening to what i am saying, People are Making A Judgment On Colour ETC Based On Screen Grabs And Viewing On An Uncalibrated Monitor........IT CAN NOT BE DONE! there now can you understand?


Edited by tele1962, April 13 2013 - 11:22 PM.


#326 of 350 OFFLINE   marcco00

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Posted April 14 2013 - 12:13 AM

dvd talk has a review up

 

http://www.dvdtalk.c...ac.html?___rd=1



#327 of 350 OFFLINE   kinzoels

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Posted April 14 2013 - 10:26 AM

INTERCOM: calling Robert Harris.....Robert Harris...........

#328 of 350 OFFLINE   Reed Grele

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Posted April 16 2013 - 08:42 PM

The missing 30 or so frames shown HERE (by Tim Lucas of Video Watchdog magazine) of a never before seen expression of Dracula almost crying during the disintegration scene really should have been included in the 2012 restoration. The film still works for me without it, but now that I've seen it.... Well, you can't un-ring a bell.



#329 of 350 OFFLINE   Yorkshire

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Posted April 17 2013 - 01:19 AM

The missing 30 or so frames shown HERE (by Tim Lucas of Video Watchdog magazine) of a never before seen expression of Dracula almost crying during the disintegration scene really should have been included in the 2012 restoration. The film still works for me without it, but now that I've seen it.... Well, you can't un-ring a bell.

 

Good spot!

 

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#330 of 350 OFFLINE   HDvision

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Posted April 17 2013 - 03:05 AM

I think here someone already pointed this, maybe they deleted this shot because they couldn't make a seamless audio edit?



#331 of 350 OFFLINE   Yorkshire

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Posted April 17 2013 - 04:38 AM

If you check out the Hammer Restoration Blog they are aware.  Scroll to the bottom of this page - last couple of comments:

 

http://blog.hammerfilms.com/?p=366

 

On the 12th of April they said they'd comment 'in the next few days', so we should hear pretty soon.

 

Steve W


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#332 of 350 OFFLINE   John Hodson

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Posted April 17 2013 - 04:43 AM

I think here someone already pointed this, maybe they deleted this shot because they couldn't make a seamless audio edit?

 

They've commented before and that was their explanation.


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#333 of 350 OFFLINE   Reed Grele

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Posted April 17 2013 - 07:27 AM

It seems logical about the audio track sync expalnation. However, I've noticed that the restoration team had already re used a few brief sections of certain chords (which is not upsetting to me at all) that seem to have been implemented in order to restore the "gory" Japanese footage into the 2007 BFI version with the least amount of soundtrack interruption.No doubt, restoring these additonal frames would have incurred additional expense, or technical difficulty that might have been the straw that broke the camels back. In any case, I eagerly await Hammer's explantion of this issue.At least they thought to include the last few surviving reels of Japanese footage as an extra feature so that we can see these frames. Even unrestored, they are very moving, and powerful images.

 



#334 of 350 OFFLINE   KMR

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Posted April 17 2013 - 10:23 AM

For the Dracula closeup shot in question, is the one in the Japanese print shorter than the British one?  That's the only reason I could imagine for it to be a problem for audio sync.  If it's longer, it would only need to be trimmed to fit in with the existing soundtrack.  (There isn't really any specific movement in the shot that needs to be synced up with corresponding dialog or sound effects, is there?)



#335 of 350 OFFLINE   cannon1

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Posted April 17 2013 - 04:15 PM

Actually if you look at the original Japanese disintegraton sequence on the Japanese reels, to me it's a better assembly than the

restored Hammer version.  The inclusion of the extra hand disintegraton and Lee's reaction makes it all work

better, interestingly.  Personally I was a bit on the fence on which version I liked better, the original

we've had for years or the restored....but for me the Japanese, and certainly assembled by the original Hammer

crew, wins hands down.  It's just a couple of quick shots but it makes a difference. (incidentally, the Japanese

reels can be found on youtube at this time)

For the Dracula closeup shot in question, is the one in the Japanese print shorter than the British one?  That's the only reason I could imagine for it to be a problem for audio sync.  If it's longer, it would only need to be trimmed to fit in with the existing soundtrack.  (There isn't really any specific movement in the shot that needs to be synced up with corresponding dialog or sound effects, is there?)



#336 of 350 OFFLINE   Yorkshire

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Posted April 17 2013 - 11:49 PM

It may well be they just think the original shots of Lee are better.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, this isn't something that was cut from the Japanese version to make the UK version - it's an alternate take.  In that case it wouldn't be restoring cut footajge, it'd be changing a decision Hammer originally took on which take to use, which is something quite different.

 

Steve W


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#337 of 350 OFFLINE   cannon1

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Posted April 18 2013 - 02:46 AM

The shots added back into the UK version appear to have been taken directly from the Japanese 'cut' of the film....

that is, the shots are in the Japanese final assembly, just as the couple of shots they didn't use ...which is why the comparison of the

two can be made. The Japanese reels look to be what's left of a Japanese 'release' print...and the final scene in the Japanese

version is on the reels, complete, as well some of the other scenes, also containing the Mina footage added to the UK version. It just

speaks to this viewer that the Japanese disintegration assembly itself, could have been the model...because it works better...with just

a couple extra seconds or so...

 

Mike

 

It may well be they just think the original shots of Lee are better.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, this isn't something that was cut from the Japanese version to make the UK version - it's an alternate take.  In that case it wouldn't be restoring cut footajge, it'd be changing a decision Hammer originally took on which take to use, which is something quite different.

 

Steve W


Edited by cannon1, April 18 2013 - 04:40 AM.


#338 of 350 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted April 18 2013 - 03:22 AM

Just checked out some of Dracula, early impressions are that it looks very good to me, 


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#339 of 350 OFFLINE   kinzoels

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Posted April 18 2013 - 05:26 AM

Under ideal listening conditions it is apparent the restoration crew is using some of the Japanese soundtrack during the disintergration scenes with some rather sloppy audio edits (listen right when Dracula grabs table through Van Helsing grabbing candlesticks and running across table). Also, some of the music is not in the right places, and some sound effects are missing! So out of curiosity, I brought the discs with the Japanese reels to an engineer friend of mine, and we loaded it into Pro-Tools. After some cleanup to remove tics and pops, and some tweaking to improve fidelity, I came to the conclusion that the Japanese soundtrack could have been used as the audio base for the whole sequence with the BFI and Japanese footage "dropped" into their proper spots, resulting in a smoother, and COMPLEAT ending  (both video and audio) and closer to Fishers vision. I'd like to add that Pro Tools is one of the industry standards to do this kind of work, and it would have also taken care of any pitch and length problems between the sources. In all fairness to the sound engineer, it appears the video edits were done first and he was handcuffed into force fitting the audio when it should have been done the other way around. Please remember friends that this is just MY theory!!! Also, and this is an aside, in the Japaese reels, Cushings extra milleseconds at the end of the table (almost unsure as to what to do) just before grabing the candlesticks. 



#340 of 350 OFFLINE   kinzoels

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Posted April 23 2013 - 06:41 AM

I am very disappointed that Robert Harris has not responded to posts for his opinion on the Blu Ray Dracula.




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