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Recommendations needed for a budget of $1,500!


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#1 of 31 OFFLINE   colomb

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Posted July 17 2012 - 03:11 PM

Thank you in advance for any recommendations in a complete 5.1 Home Thester System, exclude the blueray player as I'll buy a PS3 very soon! Budget. $1,500 for a reveiver/amplifer, 5 speakers and 1 subwoofer. Room size. about 24' x 18' (with bigger space on the upper part directly under the roof) TV. 70" 3D LED Intended use. Movie & music, better with Karaoke founction Other requirements. Networking and Apple products support. Will really appreciate your help! Thanks.

#2 of 31 OFFLINE   Martino

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Posted July 18 2012 - 07:11 AM

Budget. $1,500 for a reveiver/amplifer, 5 speakers and 1 subwoofer


HSU - 5.0 Speaker Package, Satin Black - $739.00

http://www.hsuresear...speakerpkg.html


Epic Legend Sub:
http://www.epiksubwo...com/legend.html - $499.00


Onkyo TX-NR414 5.1-Channel 3-D Ready Network A/V Receiver - $237.77

http://www.accessori...Receiver/1.html

Total Cost: $1475.77

#3 of 31 OFFLINE   colomb

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Posted July 18 2012 - 10:22 AM

Thank you so much, Martino! Two concerns. 1) Book-shelf speakers vs towers. Will the smaller volume affect the performance? 2) Onkyo receiver. Refurbished vs new. Have no confidence in refurbished products. As a beginner, I'm trying to do some research on HSU and Epik products and want to make cleat what position they are standing in. I know I'm in the transition of the conventional brand names like Sony, Samsung, Pioneer, etc to the professional ones.

#4 of 31 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 18 2012 - 10:55 AM

I just looked at the Denon 1713 and 1913 and I about spit up my lunch... Seriously, Denon thinks analog video is that much dead? Granted the Onkyo NR616 isn't much better, but still... no component at all on a $450 receiver??? I also looked at Yamaha and Pioneers $400-ish offering... And people wonder why Onkyo has 1/3 of the market to themselves... From a "quick glance"... Why buy the Denon 1913(at its price) when you can get the Onkyo TX NR515 at $200-ish less money?

#5 of 31 OFFLINE   Martino

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Posted July 18 2012 - 12:52 PM

1) Book-shelf speakers vs towers. Will the smaller volume affect the performance?

You are running a 5.1 system....and the .1 is for the sub. The sub has a built in amp, and helps with the power hungry low end. This system uses the same speakers in all 4 corners - so your pans from front/back using the same speakers will be great. Towers usually try to add larger speakers and have more internal volume so they can go lower than this point - but if you have a sub and an 80 Hz cross over - nothing under 80 Hz will be sent to the towers anyway...

If a book shelf speaker goes low enough to handle the hand-off to the sub (THX spec - cross over set at 80 Hz so you cannot localize it) -

The speakers I sent you - have a Frequency response rating of:

60Hz – 20kHz +/- 2 dB

They will go down to the 80 Hz hand off point with no problem....

From a review of a demo that was done -

" The speakers went down to 60Hz, although Dr. Hsu had them crossed over at 80Hz."


They are also very efficient speakers - which means they produce a lot of sound for the wattage given (92 dB / 1m / 2.83V in Half Space)

From a review:
http://www.hsuresear...heaterSound.pdf

The first thing I want to know about any small speaker is if it can rock. If it can’t, that’s a serious mark against it. So
I cued up Led Zeppelin II (CD, Atlantic 82633) and gave it a whirl. In short, yeah -- the Hsus rocked. Wanting to
know how they’d sound without a sub, I took the VTF-3 out of the loop and cranked up the volume. They played
very loud without any sense of strain.

Whole page of reviews...

http://www.hsuresear...s.html#speakers


-- Like anything else - it is your money - so do the research. For the speakers, these are both internet direct companies - so you end up getting a little more value for your money.

I just double checked - and both the speakers and the sub come with a 30 day money back offer. You can try them out in your system, and if not satisfied, send them back.

2) Onkyo receiver. Refurbished vs new. Have no confidence in refurbished products.

I didn't even realize that these were the refurbished ones - since you are only saving $42.00 it would not matter to get the non-refurbished ones...

Tried looking up a new one - goes for 279...would go over your 1500 budget, but not by much... ($1517)

http://www.amazon.co...ASIN=B0077V88YU

#6 of 31 OFFLINE   Robert_J

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Posted July 18 2012 - 03:02 PM

As a beginner, I'm trying to do some research on HSU and Epik products and want to make cleat what position they are standing in. I know I'm in the transition of the conventional brand names like Sony, Samsung, Pioneer, etc to the professional ones.
Not "professional" but more like boutique brands. It's like the difference between a Toyota Celica and a Lotus. Yes, they share some parts but the Lotus is tuned for performance. Also, you can call them and sometimes (most of the time with Epik) actually talk to the owner/designer of the product. The last time I called Epik, I spoke with the owner's father.

#7 of 31 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted July 18 2012 - 06:17 PM

The 1913 has Audyssey MultEQ while the 515 has 2EQ. But the Onkyo has 8 HDMI inputs (who really needs 8 inputs :confused: ), 2 HDMI outputs and Zone 2. And yes, the back of new receivers are getting pretty bare. No Multi-Ch inputs, s-video inputs, 7.1 pre-outs, component in's and out's (well, maybe one or two). Optical/coaxial inputs and analog inputs are getting scarce. Are analog inputs next? On the other hand, component and s-video cables are dirt cheap these days. Bookshelf speakers can give outstanding results with a really good subwoofer and the proper crossover setting. These other brands aren't really proffessional models. Just not as well known. They put a little more emphesis on performance and value instead of sales figures and profits. Others to look at are AscendAcoustics.com, Axiom.com, AudioInsider.com (Arx), Wharfedale, Mordaunt-Short, AperionAudio.com, Energy and Boston Acoustics (plus a few I've neglected to mention).
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#8 of 31 OFFLINE   colomb

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Posted July 18 2012 - 10:44 PM

Thank you all for the input. It's like a school here where I may learn so much from so many knowledgeable professors. I'll keep reading and listening until I have a clear understanding of the system.

#9 of 31 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted July 19 2012 - 07:44 AM

Here are a couple of sites with a lot of good info Crutchfield http://www.crutchfie...u.aspx?c=4&tp=4 Aperion Audio http://www.aperionau...Theater,45.aspx
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#10 of 31 OFFLINE   colomb

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Posted July 23 2012 - 09:29 AM

Thank you all for your help and time! After doing some research and reading, I've come to an idea as follows with regard to what to buy. I'd like to hear your comments before I make the final decision. - Speakers. 4 x BIC DV64 Tower speakers & 1 x DV62CLR-S Center Channel speaker. The reason for not going with HSU 5.0 Speaker package is that they're bookshelf speakers and I will need to solve the problem of finding something that will support them, like cabinets, etc. I also concern about the volume of the speakers for a space of about 4,300 cubic foot. - Sub woofer. 1 x Epic Legend. This one is more powerful and has very good reviews. - Receiver. Onkyo TX-NR717. This is the most hard part for me to choose. Onkyo TX-NR414, Onkyo TX-NR515 & Onkyo TX-NR616? They all look great but lack some functions like THX certified, 2EQ, Preouts, etc. Furthermore, I'm still holding the grudge that why all theses Onkyo models do not have the AIR PLAY function. By adding all the numbers up, I got a total close to $1,800. Will sincerely appreciate any comments and guidance, so as to achieve the best value of the hard-earned money. Thank you!

#11 of 31 OFFLINE   Jason Charlton

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Posted July 23 2012 - 09:54 AM

Don't let a lack of THX certification sway you on a receiver - THX no longer has much significance these days on receivers as it used to a decade or so ago.  It costs money to stamp THX on a device, and just because an item doesn't have the logo doesn't mean it wouldn't qualify for one if they sought certification.  IMO, about the only component these days where THX still carries some weight is with a display - and only because if a display is THX certified, it means that all artificial image "enhancements" can easily be disabled by the user.

Are you new to the Home Theater Forum? Stop by the New Member Introductions area and introduce yourself! See you there!


#12 of 31 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 23 2012 - 10:07 AM

If I remember correctly... Onkyo(which I think they all do this now if they are an NR) uses two methods for Itunes... One is the USB(No I don't know if the 414 has one, but somewhere along the line they add one). I think, but check elsewhere, that the USB allows Onkyo to use its DAC, not the "crappy DAC" that is in an Ipod(Airplay receives the music already analog...which means Apple's crappy DAC is involved). The other method is straight off the network. I would assume you have a "base computer" for your Itunes. Use that to send the music to the Onkyo. So...it was suggested years ago that Onkyo went the USB route to get the music digitally off your Ipod/Iphone/Ipad. So, you get a tad less convenience...but much better sound. Whether or not the USB can be sent to Zone 2 is another story.

#13 of 31 OFFLINE   Martino

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Posted July 24 2012 - 09:00 AM

I will need to solve the problem of finding something that will support them, like cabinets, etc

They make speaker stands for this reason.....to get the bookshelf speakers off of the ground, and put the tweeter at ear level. Here is a page of various models.

http://www.parts-exp...Cat&srchCat=515

As I said, it is your money and if you want to go with tower speakers, then go for it. If someone else is reading this and is in a similar situation, then you can go with bookshelf speakers and stands...

#14 of 31 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 24 2012 - 09:11 AM

In my personal opinion... Speaker stands are pointless. Spend that extra amount on the tower version of the same speaker...(of course if your bookshelf speakers are Totem or PSB, or anything else $1500+, that is another story) Although, in my home, the two rooms that have the most used HT are both rooms where I have LOTS of extra speaker wire running to the width/surround and surround/rear surround... One room(set up with width) has the rear speakers flanking patio doors to the back patio. Those width speakers have been known to get sat in the window sills facing out. The back speakers often get picked up and moved outside. Towers, in this room, make the most sense...the width speakers are smaller speakers that I found that fit sideways in the window sill easily. The other room has the same thing going on, sorta. It is a much bigger room and when "movie time" the speakers are brought in to within 4 feet of the two rows of couches(two 8 feet long couches sitting as rows). But the room also has a pool table and foosball. When "party time/Sunday football" watching, the surround speakers(all four of them) get moved back to the walls. The 4/5 speakers get moved about 8 feet "movie/party" and the 6/7 speakers get moved almost 12 feet "movie/party".

#15 of 31 OFFLINE   Martino

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Posted July 24 2012 - 09:29 AM

Sometimes we will just have to agree to disagree....

Speaker stands are pointless. Spend that extra amount on the tower version of the same speaker...(of course if your bookshelf speakers are Totem or PSB, or anything else $1500+, that is another story)

In this case, the speakers in question do not come in a tower version....and speaker stands will raise the speaker level to the correct height to get your tweeter level at your ear level when you are sitting at your listening position. They are not pointless. They will make any book shelf speaker, regardless of price, sound better in your environment.

I have a system that is based on having towers in the front, a good center channel speaker, and book shelf speakers in the rear - along with a good sub. I found that my tower speakers extra bass response was not really needed, as the sub handled everything below my 80 HTz frequency range anyway. I feel that I would have been better off getting another set of the same bookshelf speakers that I am using for my rear speakers, place them on stands, and have a better matching front/back panning .

All of my speakers are from the Paradigm Studio line - version #1 (I have had them for a while)

Mains: Studio 80 Towers - Included a link to show you what these look like......this is not my picture, but the same version 1 speaker that I am running...
Center: Studio 450 LCR
Rear: Studio 20 Bookshelf - sitting on stands behind my seating position...

#16 of 31 OFFLINE   colomb

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Posted July 25 2012 - 09:19 AM

Yeah! Thank you again for your opinion and comments. Different ideas really help rather than just one voice, which provide more thoughts from more angles. Besides the equipments, I'd like your help as what to buy, like wires and cables, etc. Have a wonderful day!

#17 of 31 OFFLINE   Martino

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Posted July 25 2012 - 09:36 AM

Besides the equipments, I'd like your help as what to buy, like wires and cables, etc.

You can go to Monoprice for most of your cable needs....good quality stuff at a great price.

Sub Cable: $6.53

25ft High-quality Coaxial Audio/Video RCA CL2 Rated Cable - RG6/U 75ohm (for S/PDIF, Digital Coax, Subwoofer & Composite Video)
http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

Speaker Wire: $22.71 for 100 ft.

100ft 14AWG CL2 Rated 2-Conductor Loud Speaker Cable (For In-Wall Installation)
http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

Banana Plugs for speaker wire: (10 pairs needed for 5.0 system): 10 x $1.53 = $15.30
http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

You make your own speaker wires using the above 2....the link to the banana plugs has a "how to" video to show you how easy it is....

HDMI cables:

For Longer than 10 ft runs - BJC Belden Series-1 Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable: (see chart) - 10 ft @ $41.50

http://www.bluejeans.../hdmi-cable.htm

Add 2 port savers for the long run cable ends:

8inch 28AWG High Speed Male to Female HDMI® Port Saver - Black - 2 x $1.81

http://www.monoprice...t=2#description



For Shorter Runs (like between blu-ray player and receiver)

3ft 24AWG CL2 High Speed HDMI® Cable w/ Net Jacket - Black - $4.99

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

#18 of 31 OFFLINE   colomb

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Posted July 25 2012 - 04:15 PM

Hi Martin, Your post is highly appreciated. Are those all the cables and accessories I need? It would be helpful if you may tell me the usage of each cable so that I may make it sure if the length is Okay. WIth regard to the receiver, after reading some posts on various forums, I'm inclined to buy the Onkyo TX-NR709 instead of Onkyo TX-NR717. Any comments will be welcome. Thank you for your help and your time!

#19 of 31 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 25 2012 - 04:47 PM

Who knows if those are "all the cables you need", I wouldn't know that unless I was there doing the install. And he gave you EXAMPLES only... Do you need a 25ft subwoofer cable? If yes, cool. If not they have them in 6,9,12,15,50 and 75 feet. How long do you need your HDMI? 3ft? 6ft? 50ft? 100ft? Would you rather do CAT5/5e/6 extension?

#20 of 31 OFFLINE   Martino

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Posted July 25 2012 - 06:50 PM

Sometimes I need to remember that this is the beginner section....sorry... I was trying to give you some examples, and show you that you do not need any of the $150.00 hdmi monster cables that the stores try to push on you...monoprice and blue jeans cable are two great places to look..... As for the setup itself.... Your receiver is the center of your system... You did not mention what you are going to be placing your equipment in/on....but figure that out first. Then get some string and/or a tape measure to figure out the distances. Your sub is a powered sub - so you need to figure out how you are going to be able to plug it in (near an outlet or have an extension cord) - where ever you put it - measure the distance from your receiver to the sub, then add about 3 or 4 feet for some slack. After you get this distance - you will need an RCA cable to run from the sub out on your receiver to the input on your sub (25 ' sub cable example above) You will need to run speaker wire from your receiver to each speaker. The speaker wire I gave you above comes in a 100 ft spool, and you start at your receiver, run the speaker wire to the rear of your speaker, give it some slack, then cut it off and add the banana plugs to each end...then plug one end into the receiver, the other end into the back of the speaker. Follow the video on the banana plug page to see how to create your own speaker cable. Everything is color coded - so plug the black into the black, the red into the red. The cable itslef is black and red - and the banana plugs have a black and a red band on them. For your blu-ray player to the receiver, you will need an HDMI cable - usually you keep these components close to each other, so you don't need a very long cable for this. Again, give yourself a little wiggle room. Usually a 6 ft or shorter HDMI cable will work for this. Then you have to connect the HDMI out of your reveiver to an HDMI input on your display device (TV or Projector) Measure the distance between the two. If it is longer then 10 ft (with the wiggle room) - then I would get the high end blue jeans cable listed above. This cable is very thick, so you buy two of the 8" port savers and place them on either end. That will get the basic sound from a blu-ray player through the reciver to the TV...




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