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Bose beats JBL in law suit


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#1 of 60 OFFLINE   Kevin Webb

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Posted December 24 2001 - 08:46 PM

Thought everyone would be interested by this:



Found this interesting tidbit on IP Law, a legal news website:



Bose Corp. v. JBL Intl.;



In a case involving a patent relating to porting in a loudspeaker system, denial of defendant's (JBL) motion for summary judgment of noninfringement under the doctrine of equivalents affirmed because a reasonable jury could have returned a verdict for plaintiff; court did not err in determining applicable royalty because there was substantial evidence to support an award based upon entire value of loudspeakers.



What this means is this: Bose sued JBL claiming that their port tube infringed on a patent that Bose had. The District Court found in favor of Bose and awarded them compensation in the amount of $5.7 million. JBL filed an appeal in Federal Court based on the grounds mention in the previous paragraph. The Federal Court found nothing wrong and upheld the decision. On their website, JBL said they were planning to appeal the Fed Court's decision.



How this effects us, the HT Nuts? Posted Image



Bose claimed that the following JBL models used the fraudlent port design: speaker models N24, N26, N28, N38, ND310, S26, S38, S312, SCS125, ESC300B, and ESC350 (or otherwords, almost JBL's entire current line).



A link to the court decision can be found here



Nothing I could find in the decision said that JBL has to stop selling those models. A quick check of the Best Buy website confirmed that they are still selling those models and neither companies' website stated such.



No wonder those JBL's sound so good.. they're just like Bose!



Kevin

#2 of 60 OFFLINE   Dan Hine

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Posted December 24 2001 - 09:03 PM

Damn! If I were JBL I would just bring in a JBL system and a Bose system and ask if it really sounded like JBL was taking technology from Bose! Posted Image Problem solved! Say what you will about Bose sound, but the fact that they'll sue another company for 5million bucks after they are already charging people out the wazoo for their speakers is pathetic. Posted Image Posted Image





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#3 of 60 OFFLINE   Sean Conklin

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Posted December 24 2001 - 09:33 PM

Maybe it has to do with the elliptical wave technology JBL is using. Either way there is nothing in common with Bose and JBL.I seriously doubt JBL copied any of the Bose wave malarky. JBL is a Jaguar and Bose is a Yugo!! What a bunch of BS, I don't like hearing ridiculous crap like this.

#4 of 60 OFFLINE   Sean Conklin

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Posted December 24 2001 - 09:42 PM

JBL's Waveguide technology is not even remotely close to the Bose "intestinal like" wave design which is so good at excreting mediocre sound at best!

#5 of 60 OFFLINE   Brett DiMichele

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Posted December 24 2001 - 11:58 PM

BOSE® Better Technology from Lawsuits





Dr.Amar Bose did learn one thing when he got that Phd of his...



If you can't beat them... SUE THEM...





And people wonder why we HATE Bose? The company reaks of

pissant ownership..
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#6 of 60 OFFLINE   Sean Conklin

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Posted December 25 2001 - 12:15 AM


Quote:






BOSE® Better Technology from Lawsuits™




I like that!

#7 of 60 OFFLINE   Joe_C

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Posted December 25 2001 - 02:33 AM

God, f*ck Bose and all this legal bs. Their speakers sound nowhere near as good as those JBL units mentioned above! I have a pair of N38's, and they sound amazing. I even demoed them against the Bose Acoustimass and Lifestyle systems, and both were ridiculously outclassed.
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#8 of 60 OFFLINE   DanaA

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Posted December 25 2001 - 03:12 AM

Didn't Bose also sue Consumer's Union when Consumer Reports did an unflattering rating of one of the speakers some years back? Man, I hate Bose.

#9 of 60 OFFLINE   DonnyD

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Posted December 25 2001 - 04:27 AM

This is simply outrageous. Apparently, the Justices hearing the case are not into HT or anything even close. Bose has been outclassed for a long time.... I just can't understand how they survive. But then again, the good old American Judicial system is like selling a whole bunch of those inferior products. My distaste for Bose goes back to the mid seventies when I was auditioning speakers for a new home and stereo system..... I tried all the Bose available.... they couldn't even beat out some old Zeniths! I ended up buying some JBL L100s which I still have today as part of my HT.
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#10 of 60 OFFLINE   Justin Lane

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Posted December 25 2001 - 06:06 AM

I own JBL Studio Series speakers, and will be the first to say they have nothing in common with any Bose product, however.... Whatever the case may be, some part of the technology JBL used must have been very very similar to something in a Bose product, or just something Bose own the copyright for, but never used in a product. How can you begrudge a company, even Bose, for trying to protect the money they spent on R&D? They must have proven their case quite throughly for them to win the case then win in appeals again. Bose is certainly not even close to the best values in speakers, but this is one time I think the bashing is way out of order. J

#11 of 60 OFFLINE   Steve WC

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Posted December 25 2001 - 06:23 AM

I agree with with Justin. If someone took something from you I am sure you would want it back or be compensated for it. Regardless of how things sound or what you think they are worth, it is apparant a very good case was made. Are troops are fighting for everones right to benefit from our free and CAPITALISTIC society. Happy Holidays! Steve
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#12 of 60 OFFLINE   Brett DiMichele

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Posted December 25 2001 - 03:42 PM

I am sorry but I do not agree with the 2 Bose defenders we have posting in this thread. Bose is not trying to "protect" any technology they actualy invented they are merely trying to bankrupt competition that is sold in the same stores by suing them to death. It's obvious for anyone with half a frontal lobe to see this. Bose will sue anyone that says anything bad about thier product and the competition if they feel threatened. Bose has gone as far as to try and sue a poor college kid for his internet based review of Bose products. I wouldn't be suprised if they sue me for what I wrote.. Not like they would get anything anyway.. If you think the legal system knows squat about loud speaker designs you are mistaken. I could probably sue Monster Cable saying that thier 12awg speaker cable design looks like something I pattented and I would probably win if I could AFFORD the best Lawyers. I am all for Capitalism but I am not for UNFAIR buisness practices.
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#13 of 60 OFFLINE   BryanZ

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Posted December 26 2001 - 08:57 AM

New spelling for Bose:



B*S*

#14 of 60 OFFLINE   Kevin P

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Posted December 26 2001 - 09:10 AM

BOSE: Beaten Out? Sue Em! Posted Image



Maybe it's time to print up some "The Truth About Bose" flyers and distribute them in stores, along the lines of the "OAR" and "Anamorphic" flyers people have made.



According to the BTTF trilogy, sometime in the next 13 years lawyers will be abolished. I can hardly wait! Posted Image



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#15 of 60 OFFLINE   KeithH

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Posted December 26 2001 - 09:16 AM

Very simple. Bose sucks. Bose should defend their technology when they develop technology worth defending. Posted Image
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#16 of 60 OFFLINE   Mark Austin

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Posted December 26 2001 - 09:43 AM

It sounds to me like most people here are confusing their dislike for Bose products with what was the issue in this case. As much as many people around here dislike Bose, they do have the right a enforce their patents, just as any American does. They took what they thought was a clear patent enfringement to court, and the court agreed. This case is not a pissing match about whose products sound better, it's about the law, and evidently JBL broke it.

#17 of 60 OFFLINE   Mark Austin

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Posted December 26 2001 - 10:28 AM

Brett, Both of my frontal lobes are in great shape, which is why I must ask about one of your comments.
Quote:
Bose is not trying to "protect" any technology they actualy invented they are merely trying to bankrupt competition that is sold in the same stores by suing them to death.
What evidence do you have to support that claim, or is it just pure speculation? Has Bose ever bankrupted a company by taking it to court? Surely, you would have to admit that in this particular case there could not have been any hopes by Bose of bankrupting JBL/Infinity on this infringement issue.

#18 of 60 OFFLINE   Chu Gai

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Posted December 26 2001 - 12:11 PM

With regards to Bose vs Consumer's Union, a case which was ulimately upheld in Consumer's Union favor, some additional information can be found at the following website... http://www.paranzino.com/law/libel/

I'm not familiar with Bose's suit against the 'poor college college kid', Brett. Perhaps you can provide links where his review could be read as well as links detailing the law suit. It may be that the 'review' was a thinly veiled attack on Bose without any merit, the purpose of which was to cause harm and possibly earn some kudos for the poor college chap. Without the information though, its a lot of word of mouth.

The point of the law suit hardly seems to suggest that JBL sounds like Bose as some have posted. They would do well to read the information provided rather than shooting from the hip with their Bose targeted 6-guns. It rather deals with "The specific feature at issue here is the shape of the boundary surrounding the port tube." (taken from the link Kevin provided) Now if in fact this shape is a valid consideration and its design were stolen and/or inadvertantly used, then why should Bose not be entitled to some sort of compensation?

Brett, it may well be that Bose issued a letter to JBL informing them of their belief that specific elements of JBL's ported designs infringed on one or more of their patents. That is a quite common practice to do so, however I am not privy to this. Now if they did, and JBL chose to ignore it, then why should Bose not take legal remediation? Because they're Bose? Because one of the favorite things on this forum and others is to launch into a let's knock Bose for a while? However, the protection of patents is fundamental in this country and as far as saying, "If you can't beat them...sue them" illustrates nothing more than a distaste for a particular company. The legal system does provide remedies for frivolous law suits and were it frivolous then JBL/Ininity would have recouped a nice penny as well as publicity. I'm sure the judicial system doesn't know anything about loud speaker designs. Nor do they know much about chip architecture, chemical formulations, or automotive designs. Nor do the vast majority of us who purport to be audiophiles. So experts will be brought in and the issues weighed. Perhaps not to everyone's satisfaction, but that's why we have a system for appeals.

As far as the implication that JBL/Infinity is being hammered to death, they did retain the services of David Boises who is quite a heavy hitter in the legal profession.

#19 of 60 OFFLINE   Ralph Summa

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Posted December 26 2001 - 12:11 PM

The reason JBL lost is because they used Al Gore's lawyer! Posted Image

#20 of 60 OFFLINE   Larry B

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Posted December 26 2001 - 12:18 PM

Mark and Chu: I work in the field of patent law (as a a consultant; I am not an attorney), and I agree with your commments 100%. Coincidentally, I just defended a similar position in a thread on another forum, pertaining to an alleged lawsuit brought by Carver against Velodyne. As you and I (but apparently few others) understand, this is an issue of patent law, NOT of the quality of Bose's speakers. Larry




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