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A few words about...™ Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines... -- in Blu-ray

A Few Words About

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#21 of 65 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted July 16 2012 - 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by NY2LA 


How exactly are the roadshow elements handled? titled, still photo or black? Do they run the Entr'acte over the intermission title (I HATE that) or give you enough of a chance to hit the pause button and have a real one?

The Intermission visual is the excellent animated bit designed by Ronald Searle.  At the end of that bit there is a slight blank pause (you can hit the pause button and have a real intermission) and the Entr'acte begins over a black screen.  It is done right as Fox has been doing with SOUTH PACIFIC and THE SOUND OF MUSIC.  I hope they continue that policy for, like you I dislike any Overture, Entr'acte, or Exit Music played over a still.  To me it breaks the mood.  Can you hear that Warner Bros?


"Get a director and a writer and leave them alone. That`s how the best pictures get made" - William "Wild Bill" Wellman


#22 of 65 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted July 16 2012 - 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by Chas in CT 


I was pretty sure I hadn't seen this in in roadshow, and this almost clinches it.  I don't remember ever seeing a copy, or having one.  I did have the LP back then, and played it to death.


It a great little book that starts out as a souvenir program for the air race including introducing and giving a biography of the characters and not the actors. It is full of stills from the picture in sections such as "The Air Trials", "The Wrecks" and "Down Time at Dover."  The last five pages of the book is taken up with the actors and tech people and their biographies.  Interesting in that there is not a section on TODD-AO this time.  Below is a copy of the cover and I actually found at a used book store in the Aviation section.  LOL.

http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/


"Get a director and a writer and leave them alone. That`s how the best pictures get made" - William "Wild Bill" Wellman


#23 of 65 OFFLINE   Charles Smith

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Posted July 16 2012 - 02:00 AM

"I dislike any Overture, Entr'acte, or Exit Music played over a still.  To me it breaks the mood.  Can you hear that Warner Bros?"


It breaks the mood, and is simply:   WRONG.



#24 of 65 OFFLINE   Charles Smith

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Posted July 16 2012 - 02:02 AM

Oh, I like the look of that book.  I'll keep my eye open for it.  Thanks!



#25 of 65 OFFLINE   Dennis Gallagher

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Posted July 16 2012 - 09:41 AM

The Intermission visual is the excellent animated bit designed by Ronald Searle. 

Not any kind of quibble here - since the disc looks great to me - but has anyone noticed that the Intermission animation doesn't look as good as the rest of the transfer?

#26 of 65 OFFLINE   MichaelEl

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Posted July 18 2012 - 09:18 AM

Screencaps in the review thread show that the MAGNIFICENT MEN Blu-Ray has a very murky image. There are actually a lot of Blu-Rays, mostly Warner titles, that seem to be too dark - THE WILD BUNCH, NORTH BY NORTHWEST, THE MAN WHO WOULD BE KING, CAMELOT, DAMNATION ALLEY, etc. I would describe the overall look of these as similar to underexposed film, and if the screencaps are any indication, MM seems to have that same look as well. It would appear that Warner and others are boosting the blacks on some titles in order to cover up grain. While this might be a way of avoiding DNR, my opinion is that it reduces image quality even more than DNR does.

#27 of 65 OFFLINE   john a hunter

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Posted July 18 2012 - 10:28 AM

Screencaps in the review thread show that the MAGNIFICENT MEN Blu-Ray has a very murky image. There are actually a lot of Blu-Rays, mostly Warner titles, that seem to be too dark - THE WILD BUNCH, NORTH BY NORTHWEST, THE MAN WHO WOULD BE KING, CAMELOT, DAMNATION ALLEY, etc. I would describe the overall look of these as similar to underexposed film, and if the screencaps are any indication, MM seems to have that same look as well. It would appear that Warner and others are boosting the blacks on some titles in order to cover up grain. While this might be a way of avoiding DNR, my opinion is that it reduces image quality even more than DNR does.

This is rubbish. The PQ is very very good. In no way is it too dark on a properly calibrated display.

#28 of 65 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted July 18 2012 - 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by john a hunter 


This is rubbish. The PQ is very very good. In no way is it too dark on a properly calibrated display.

Agreed.  Very, very nice image harvest.


RAH


"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#29 of 65 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted July 18 2012 - 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by MichaelEl 

Screencaps in the review thread show that the MAGNIFICENT MEN Blu-Ray has a very murky image.
There are actually a lot of Blu-Rays, mostly Warner titles, that seem to be too dark - THE WILD BUNCH, NORTH BY NORTHWEST, THE MAN WHO WOULD BE KING, CAMELOT, DAMNATION ALLEY, etc. I would describe the overall look of these as similar to underexposed film, and if the screencaps are any indication, MM seems to have that same look as well.
It would appear that Warner and others are boosting the blacks on some titles in order to cover up grain. While this might be a way of avoiding DNR, my opinion is that it reduces image quality even more than DNR does.


The caps look much better to my eyes, more accurate black level, look at the second screencap and the sky background, there is too much contrast in the second cap and cloud detail is compromised, as already stated in the post above mine i believe a calibrated display will show off this title better than a non-calibrated display where black levels may seem too dark, to my eyes and on my display the black levels look fine in those screencaps.


Okay i see someone "lightened" the caps, no wonder they look wrong, another point to make is just because something is filmed in daylight doesn't mean it's supposed to be bright, they use filters on cameras to create images with artistic intent, sometimes they shoot day for night, a whole host of things happen to change the image, we are not supposed to be looking at things through a window as if it's real life.


Sometimes a studio does a transfer and someone decides to "brighten" or "boost" the original image because they too believe it looks wrong, it shouldn't happen but these people also think the image is too dark or needs a little "pop" well no it doesn't just give us the filmed look............rant over.


     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

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#30 of 65 OFFLINE   mark brown

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Posted July 18 2012 - 10:51 AM

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't I read two or three years ago that this 2k scan was done at the same time as The Agony and the Ecstasy by HTV/Illuminate? Does this mean that "Agony" is next up?

#31 of 65 OFFLINE   john a hunter

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Posted July 18 2012 - 01:29 PM

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't I read two or three years ago that this 2k scan was done at the same time as The Agony and the Ecstasy by HTV/Illuminate? Does this mean that "Agony" is next up?

There are rumours that it is due from TT later this year. Fingers crossed.

#32 of 65 OFFLINE   MichaelEl

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Posted July 18 2012 - 01:36 PM

The caps look much better to my eyes, more accurate black level, look at the second screencap and the sky background, there is too much contrast in the second cap and cloud detail is compromised, as already stated in the post above mine i believe a calibrated display will show off this title better than a non-calibrated display where black levels may seem too dark, to my eyes and on my display the black levels look fine in those screencaps.

I agree that the contrast in the lightened screencaps isn't right, but the level of black in the darker screencaps doesn't look right either. The third one, for example, shows no detail whatsoever in the interior of the automobile, while the lightened version reveals quite a lot of detail. It doesn't seem likely that the composition would've been set up the way it is just to film a big blob of black inside the car. My opinion is this Blu-Ray suffers from *black crush,* which as I said, is also noticeable on a number of other Blu-Rays.

#33 of 65 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted July 18 2012 - 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by MichaelEl 


I agree that the contrast in the lightened screencaps isn't right, but the level of black in the darker screencaps doesn't look right either. The third one, for example, shows no detail whatsoever in the interior of the automobile, while the lightened version reveals quite a lot of detail. It doesn't seem likely that the composition would've been set up the way it is just to film a big blob of black inside the car. My opinion is this Blu-Ray suffers from *black crush,* which as I said, is also noticeable on a number of other Blu-Rays.


I presume that you've screened the Blu-ray?


"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#34 of 65 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted July 19 2012 - 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by MichaelEl 


but the level of black in the darker screencaps doesn't look right either. The third one, for example, shows no detail whatsoever in the interior of the automobile, 


 It shows enough detail on my display.


     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


#35 of 65 OFFLINE   AlanPaterson

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Posted July 19 2012 - 06:18 AM

MichaelEl, You might want to calibrate your monitor using a Spyder or Pantone Huey calibration tool. This will set up your monitor to ISF standards - and you should then have a more accurate image on screen. All the same, I'm preaching to the converted in saying that Screen grabs should never be assumed to give an accurate representation of how a film looks on Blu-ray. Alan

#36 of 65 OFFLINE   MichaelEl

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Posted July 19 2012 - 09:26 AM

I presume that you've screened the Blu-ray?

I haven't screened this particular Blu-Ray, but I've compared the image quality of a number of other Blu-Rays to screencaps posted at blu-ray.com. In general, there is a fairly accurate correlation between what I see on my LCD displays (which have been calibrated) and screencaps at blu-ray.com. If the screencaps look soft or lack shadow detail, for example, then the actual Blu-Ray will tend to exhibit those problems as well. In the case of the MAGNIFICENT MEN Blu-ray, the screencaps show a lack shadow detail, so I have every reason to expect that the actual Blu-Ray will also.

#37 of 65 OFFLINE   MichaelEl

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Posted July 19 2012 - 09:39 AM

 It shows enough detail on my display.

All I can see in the darker version of this screencap is the metal of the steering wheel. The lightened image shows the seat of the car, the windshield wiper, the wooden frame of the window behind the driver's seat, and the outline of the rear window. There is basically no shadow detail at all in the darker version, which is supposedly representative of the actual blu-ray.

#38 of 65 OFFLINE   john a hunter

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Posted July 19 2012 - 10:16 AM

I haven't screened this particular Blu-Ray, .

Enough said.

#39 of 65 OFFLINE   haineshisway

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Posted July 19 2012 - 10:23 AM

I haven't screened this particular Blu-Ray, but I've compared the image quality of a number of other Blu-Rays to screencaps posted at blu-ray.com. In general, there is a fairly accurate correlation between what I see on my LCD displays (which have been calibrated) and screencaps at blu-ray.com. If the screencaps look soft or lack shadow detail, for example, then the actual Blu-Ray will tend to exhibit those problems as well. In the case of the MAGNIFICENT MEN Blu-ray, the screencaps show a lack shadow detail, so I have every reason to expect that the actual Blu-Ray will also.

In my experience, not ONE screen cap at bluray.com has ever resembled what I see when I actually WATCH a motion picture - please note the word MOTION. Sorry, you just cannot have this kind of discussion when you haven't seen the transfer.

#40 of 65 OFFLINE   JohnMor

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Posted July 19 2012 - 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by haineshisway 


In my experience, not ONE screen cap at bluray.com has ever resembled what I see when I actually WATCH a motion picture - please note the word MOTION. Sorry, you just cannot have this kind of discussion when you haven't seen the transfer.


I absolutely agree.  The only times I ever find screen caps useful is in comparing print damage, cropping and ratio changes from one release to another or the differences in titles cards or alternate takes from one release release to another. But never for the overall transfer. Too many variables, not the least of which is, as you said, that it's not in motion.

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