Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

Ultraviolet: What do you like and not like about it?


  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
414 replies to this topic

#21 of 415 OFFLINE   Joshua Clinard

Joshua Clinard

    Screenwriter



  • 1,728 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 25 2000
  • Real Name:Joshua Clinard
  • LocationAbilene, TX

Posted May 27 2012 - 06:40 AM

I am sorry this got posted again, please discard.

#22 of 415 OFFLINE   Joshua Clinard

Joshua Clinard

    Screenwriter



  • 1,728 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 25 2000
  • Real Name:Joshua Clinard
  • LocationAbilene, TX

Posted May 27 2012 - 06:42 AM

I am sorry this got posted again, please discard this post.

#23 of 415 OFFLINE   MattAlbie60

MattAlbie60

    I Work for Mr. E. H. Harriman of the Union Pacific Railroad.



  • 561 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 21 2010
  • Real Name:Stephen Lilley
  • LocationBaltimore, Maryland

Posted May 27 2012 - 06:48 AM

I literally started my post by saying "I don't care if you like Ultraviolet." I don't know how much more clear I can be. I can see now that it's not worth continuing a discussion. It's my fault for not recognizing that earlier. You love UV. That's great. Continue to talk about how great UV is because you don't have to buy shelves anymore.

#24 of 415 OFFLINE   bigshot

bigshot

    Screenwriter



  • 1,218 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 30 2008

Posted May 27 2012 - 07:10 AM

If you are going to post your opinions online, you need to be prepared for someone to disagree with you and give an opposing argument.

#25 of 415 OFFLINE   Joshua Clinard

Joshua Clinard

    Screenwriter



  • 1,728 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 25 2000
  • Real Name:Joshua Clinard
  • LocationAbilene, TX

Posted May 27 2012 - 11:04 AM

As I was just reading a lot of complaints about UV, I thought of another thing I love about UV. People complain about UV's DRM all the time. But the DRM on a blu-ray or DVD is a lot worse. On a DVD you are forced to watch several FBI warnings, that you cannot skip, and several previews for other movies, that you cannot skip. With UV, there is none of that. Big plus!!

#26 of 415 OFFLINE   Patrick Mason

Patrick Mason

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 113 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 01 2005
  • Real Name:Patrick
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA

Posted May 27 2012 - 11:28 AM

Registration of titles needs to happen through one account. End of story. The licensing terms need to be a lot clearer. This is huge. Do I truly own these titles, or is it some sort of lease that lasts... A year, three years, whenever they feel like? The real impediment to me is pretty simple: UV doesn't work with iTunes. That fix, in a nutshell, would make it work a whole lot easier for me. Beyond that, everything is just much too fragmented. It's confusing and there is too much effort required to remember what movies work where and at what quality level and which passwords and accounts you will need to remember. I say this as a hardcore movie and technology junkie, which means it is many levels too complicated for my wife to ever use. I love the simplicity and elegance that Apple offers. I have an Apple TV in my living room and bedroom, and my digital copies are available there, as well as on my iPhone and iPad and through iTunes on my computer. Easy. If UV could be integrated with my iTunes account as it has been recently with Vudu, I would be fully on board in an instant. If not that, then they need a user experience which can at least attempt that level of consistency and ease of use. The Flixster app available for iOS devices allows SD copies only and the app doesn't work with all studio content (such as Paramount). (EDIT: as Adam points out below, Paramount does at least offer an iTunes copy along with the UV copy.) And Flixster is so far not available on my TV through my Internet connected TV, Blu-ray players, PS3, XBox 360, Roku or Apple TV. I mean, nothing? I think Vudu may be the best hope for UV, but it has a long way to go. I don't really care for their interface, but I can get over that I guess. But their iOS app is a joke. Also, I have a PS3 with a Vudu app in my living room, but I have noticed a few of the movies I have tried there (most recently Roman Holiday) have severe black crush that does not happen through any other source in my set up. I'm not sure if they encode some movies too dark, or if the app itself is set to render things very dark or what. Get a good app on way more devices, and get the rights to download HD copies to your devices, and maybe this could be a decent Apple substitute. Otherwise, who else is going to step up to make this mess work? Overall: I would just like to see UltraViolet (or some partner) to offer a widely available app that can stream/download titles from all of the UV participating content partners, and that can redeem codes through one unified account.

#27 of 415 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

Adam Gregorich

    Executive Producer



  • 14,895 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 20 1999
  • LocationThe Other Washington

Posted May 27 2012 - 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Patrick Mason 

The Flixster app available for iOS devices allows SD copies only and the app doesn't work with all studio content (such as Paramount). As far as I know, that means I can't access Paramount digital copies on any of my portable devices, which makes them pretty darn close to useless. And Flixster is so far not available on my TV through my Internet connected TV, Blu-ray players, PS3, XBox 360, Roku or Apple TV. I mean, nothing?
 

Paramount up to this point has been supplying BOTH iTunes and UV codes, at least they have with all the titles I have purchased, so kudos to them.  Universal has been doing it with most of their titles.  I would ask that there be no debate about UV in this thread.  It exists for the purpose of me noting what HTF members think is good and bad so I can pass it on.  I'd rather not wade through a debate to get that data.  If you want to discuss the pros and cons among yourselves, please feel free to use this thread or start a new one: http://www.hometheat...you-used-it-yet



#28 of 415 OFFLINE   Patrick Mason

Patrick Mason

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 113 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 01 2005
  • Real Name:Patrick
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA

Posted May 27 2012 - 12:31 PM

Sorry Adam, you are correct about Paramount offering both. I should have mentioned that. I meant it more as an illustration of how it is difficult to remember what rights you retain in which environments. I would like to see UltraViolet offer one app with one registration that is available on many devices and can stream your entire library.

#29 of 415 OFFLINE   Joshua Clinard

Joshua Clinard

    Screenwriter



  • 1,728 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 25 2000
  • Real Name:Joshua Clinard
  • LocationAbilene, TX

Posted June 04 2012 - 03:40 AM

I have 80 UV movies now, and I have many more DVD's that I would like to convert, but until some of my concerns are addressed I am very reluctant to add any more. Most of the movies I converted we're available in widescreen, but Forrest Gump was in P&S even though I paid $5 for HDX. I am quite upset. Some other movies were in widescreen but they were cropped to 16x9 instead of OAR. This needs to be fixed before I convert the rest of my collection. I also am worried about buying a movie on Blu-ray with a UV Code. Sometimes they give you a SD copy. I want to be able to upgrade my SD copy to HD, even if there is a small fee of maybe $3. SD digital copy is not future proof. I also want to be able to exchange iTunes digital copy codes for UV ones.

#30 of 415 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

Sam Posten

    Moderator



  • 16,879 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 30 1997
  • Real Name:Sam Posten
  • LocationAberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ

Posted June 04 2012 - 05:18 AM

You guys keep using the word buy. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

I lost my signature and all I got was this Nutter t-shirt


#31 of 415 OFFLINE   Towergrove

Towergrove

    Supporting Actor



  • 777 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 07 2011

Posted June 04 2012 - 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Sam Posten 

You guys keep using the word buy. I don't think that word means what you think it means.


Not sure what you mean?? The dictionary (and this gal ) clearly knows what Buy means:

buy

1. to acquire the possession of, or the right to, by paying or promising to pay an equivalent, especially in money; purchase.
 
The studios clearly separate out buying from renting. 
 
When I purchase a film either on disc or a digital file like a UV file that I store either on my home shelf or on my home server in my possession is a buy.

Being a female is a matter of birth. Being a woman is a matter of age. But being a lady… Now that's a matter of choice.


#32 of 415 OFFLINE   RickER

RickER

    Producer



  • 5,130 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 04 2003
  • Real Name:Rick
  • LocationTulsa, Oklahoma

Posted June 04 2012 - 01:08 PM

UV could be like the old DIVX. You could "buy" it. But after they folded, did anyone really own it? No, i think it pretty well dried up, and took Circuit City with them. UV reminds me a lot of DIVX. Except i do own the Blu-ray even if DIVX, i mean UV, dries up. Oh, and The Princess Bride is a great movie.

#33 of 415 OFFLINE   Towergrove

Towergrove

    Supporting Actor



  • 777 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 07 2011

Posted June 04 2012 - 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by RickER 

UV could be like the old DIVX. You could "buy" it. But after they folded, did anyone really own it?


According to UV FAQ its your when you download it.  No internet is involved (didnt DIVX have to be connected to the internet or phone line?)



[5.1] Isn't the ulterior motive to get people signed up to UltraViolet, then after a few years start charging them to watch and rebuy movies?

No. Hundreds of people worked on UltraViolet for years, and this was not an agenda item in any of the meetings.

Here are the facts:
•UltraViolet retailers are required to give you no-cost unlimited streaming the first year. After that they may or may not charge for additional streams.

•UltraViolet retailers are required to give you three no-cost downloads in the first year after purchase. (After that they are allowed to charge for more downloads or continue to provide them at no additional cost. It's up to them.)

Once you download an UltraViolet file you can play it forever (as long as your player keeps working) without being connected to the Internet.

•You can copy the file to any other UltraViolet player you own. (In case it's not blindingly obvious, there's no charge for copying.)

•Look at all the other services today that let you buy online movies: iTunes, CinemaNow, Vudu, Xbox/Zune, PlayStation Network, to name a few. Does CinemaNow charge for each download? No. Does Vudu charge for each stream? No. Could they change their terms and start charging you? Yes, they could. Your own "corporations are evil" viewpoint will influence your opinion of how likely it might be that every UltraViolet participant will charge for the fourth download or the second year of streaming.

It's in the best interests of every participating company to get you to use UltraViolet as much as possible so they can sell you more movies. Is a company more likely to give you free downloads and streams so that you'll buy movies from them, or will they try to squeeze money out of you for a download or stream that costs them pennies?

Ironically Warner choose to extend the guaranteed free period from one year to three years, which led to allegations that you would be forced to rebuy UltraViolet movies after three years. The Warner Bros. UltraViolet Digital Copy insert in packages says "If offer redeemed prior to deadline, delivery of streaming and downloads available at no additional charge for 3 years from date of redemption." The redemption deadline is just over 2 years after the disc went on sale. Warner doesn't say whether they will or won't charge for downloads or streaming after 3 years.

Imagine the worst case scenario: One year after purchase or redemption (or three years for Warner), downloads and streams of the movie are no longer free. If you never downloaded an UltraViolet file then you would have to pay for a download. If you wanted more streams you would have to pay. Retailers and studios could charge whatever the market would bear. Files you downloaded during the guaranteed free period would continue to play on all your UltraViolet players (PCs, smartphones, tablets, etc.). If your UltraViolet right came with a BD or DVD you would still have the disc. So UltraViolet would work roughly like DVD and BD today, except on many more devices. It would work on Apple devices plus millions of other devices that aren't supported by Apple iTunes.

Bottom line: Once you download an UltraViolet file you can play it as many times as you like for no charge. You can make copies that work on a variety of devices. You can stream for at least a year for free. You might be able to download and stream for free until you die, or you might have to pay after year or two or three. We don't know today what one year or five years or one decade will bring. Assuming UltraViolet succeeds, it will continue to work on hundreds of millions of devices for decades, and unlike VHS and DVD and BD it won't get out of date because of advances in technology.

There you have it: UltraViolet is clearly a nefarious plan hatched by dinosaur-brain Hollywood execs to restrict the use of your legally bought digital purchases.

http://uvdemystified.com/uvfaq.html


Being a female is a matter of birth. Being a woman is a matter of age. But being a lady… Now that's a matter of choice.


#34 of 415 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

Sam Posten

    Moderator



  • 16,879 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 30 1997
  • Real Name:Sam Posten
  • LocationAberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ

Posted June 04 2012 - 02:48 PM

Cmon Tower you are jut trying to be hard headed here. If you BUY something you enjoy the right of first sale and can resell it, destroy it, disassemble it, do with it as you see fit within the boundaries of the law and good taste. Anything else is a limited license to use. Bottom line is if you can't sell it without asking someone else's permission, you didn't buy it.

I lost my signature and all I got was this Nutter t-shirt


#35 of 415 OFFLINE   TonyD

TonyD

    Who do we think I am?



  • 16,203 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 01 1999
  • Real Name:Tony D.
  • LocationDisney World and Universal Florida

Posted June 04 2012 - 02:55 PM

Sam I'm not sure what you're talking about either. Can you be specific. For Me if I give someone money and I take home I disc with a movie on it that means I buy it. Unless you mean something else.
facebook.com/whotony

#36 of 415 OFFLINE   Towergrove

Towergrove

    Supporting Actor



  • 777 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 07 2011

Posted June 04 2012 - 10:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Posten 

Cmon Tower you are jut trying to be hard headed here.
If you BUY something you enjoy the right of first sale and can resell it, destroy it, disassemble it, do with it as you see fit within the boundaries of the law and good taste.
Anything else is a limited license to use.
Bottom line is if you can't sell it without asking someone else's permission, you didn't buy it.

Laws change and come and go over time and vary from country to country.  What is constant are the files that sit on my server that I purchased or the physical media that sits on my shelf. I can play them whenever I want.  That never changes or goes away in my household.   In the history of home media or home video I dont recall any studio forcing themselves into someones home to remove their legally purchased media do you?  Once you make the purchase its yours.


I do not purchase something with the notion that I will then be reselling it especially when it comes to media.  If I dont like it and feel that I wouldnt want it in my collection I dont buy it in the first place.


Being a female is a matter of birth. Being a woman is a matter of age. But being a lady… Now that's a matter of choice.


#37 of 415 OFFLINE   MattAlbie60

MattAlbie60

    I Work for Mr. E. H. Harriman of the Union Pacific Railroad.



  • 561 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 21 2010
  • Real Name:Stephen Lilley
  • LocationBaltimore, Maryland

Posted June 05 2012 - 12:50 AM

In the history of home media or home video I dont recall any studio forcing themselves into someones home to remove their legally purchased media do you?  Once you make the purchase its yours.

http://blog.010techp...loyal-customers So unless you just bought the last media server you'll ever own, and your equipment never ever breaks or gets upgraded, there is always the possibility that "the next big thing" will kill this for you. And it's not even like the company behind that one was small potatoes. It was Microsoft :) If Ultraviolet starts out popular enough, great. Just hope and pray that the money coming in for the studios is always more than the cost of maintaining the service, because the second it's not they'll dump it without a thought.

#38 of 415 OFFLINE   Towergrove

Towergrove

    Supporting Actor



  • 777 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 07 2011

Posted June 05 2012 - 05:49 AM

http://blog.010techpros.com/2008/04/28/microsoft-kills-playsforsure-screws-over-loyal-customers So unless you just bought the last media server you'll ever own, and your equipment never ever breaks or gets upgraded, there is always the possibility that "the next big thing" will kill this for you. And it's not even like the company behind that one was small potatoes. It was Microsoft :) If Ultraviolet starts out popular enough, great. Just hope and pray that the money coming in for the studios is always more than the cost of maintaining the service, because the second it's not they'll dump it without a thought.

Yet there is always a work around... From the article you posted:

Or you could just use any number of audio capture programs to re-record the tracks as DRM-free MP3s and then just trash the PlaysForSure like Microsoft has decided to do.

I'm not saying UV is foolproof or futureproof (neither is Optical). The ownership and rental business will continue to coexist and that is a good thing for the consumer. Also weather you are buying an electronic, car or other item the "next big thing" is always around the corner.
Being a female is a matter of birth. Being a woman is a matter of age. But being a lady… Now that's a matter of choice.


#39 of 415 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

Sam Posten

    Moderator



  • 16,879 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 30 1997
  • Real Name:Sam Posten
  • LocationAberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ

Posted June 05 2012 - 06:20 AM

Except what you are advocating is actually, you know, against the law Tower. http://en.wikipedia....m_Copyright_Act Buying means something very specific that is VERY different from how you are acquiring music and movies via digital licensing schemes, including Apples Fair Play. Bottom line: If you can't sell it again you didn't BUY it. http://www.extremete...music-purchases This is the RIAA's own words, not mine. Think your UV downloads are free from DRM and just dandy good to go if UV goes belly up? Not so fast! The UV stuff DOES phone home to ask permission from time to time. http://en.wikipedia....aViolet_(system) http://uvdemystified.../uvfaq.html#3.3

Every UltraViolet player has a DRM client in it. When the player is joined to an UltraViolet account, the DRM client gets a domain ID corresponding to the account. The Coordinator keeps track of all the players and their DRM clients and domain IDs, joining them into a metadomain for each account. When a player attempts to play an UltraViolet file it first checks to see if there's a DRM license in the file corresponding to the DRM client, and the DRM client checks to see if the DRM license matches its domain ID. If so, the file plays. If there's no matching DRM license then the player uses information in the file to request a DRM license from the DRM license server at the DSP providing license services for the Retailer that sold the file. The DSP checks the accounts digital library to see if it has rights to the file. If so, it sends a DRM license to the player, which can then play the file. The player stores the DRM license in the file for future use. If the DRM license doesn't match the player's domain (e.g., the file was copied from a player in one account to a player in a different account) or there is no DRM license or license acquisition info (e.g., it's a superdistributed file, see 1.10.2), then the player may give the user an option to buy rights to the file. Once the right has been added to the account's digital library then then a DRM license can be acquired and the file will play. This approach allows files to be freely copied from player to player and for players to be joined to an account at any time. As long as the account "owns" the content there will either be a matching DRM license in the file or the player will be able to request a license. All of this happens invisibly and very quickly behind the scenes, apart from the case where a user doesn't own the content and is prompted to buy it.

Just as Apple's fair play does. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairPlay Further discussion: http://en.wikipedia....ghts_management http://en.wikipedia....t_sale_doctrine http://en.wikipedia....Music_licensing http://www.broadcast...-you-be-asking/ http://en.wikipedia....ctive_by_Design You keep on pointing to workarounds how you think things might happen or could happen. Meanwhile back on USA, planet earth reality is a bit different.

I lost my signature and all I got was this Nutter t-shirt


#40 of 415 OFFLINE   MattAlbie60

MattAlbie60

    I Work for Mr. E. H. Harriman of the Union Pacific Railroad.



  • 561 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 21 2010
  • Real Name:Stephen Lilley
  • LocationBaltimore, Maryland

Posted June 05 2012 - 06:29 AM

Workarounds aren't only against the law, but they're also against Ultraviolet's own terms of service. I really don't care to get into the moral or legal implications of ripping or re-coding your own stuff. It's 2012, and also we're all adults here. The only reason I brought it up was because you did. If the UV movies are yours no matter what forever and ever, why be willing to circumvent the rules in the first place? Those ideas seem like contradictions to me. And if you HAVE to circumvent the rules to accomplish something, no matter how hypothetical it may be at this point - maybe this thing that you're arguing for isn't as sweet as you seem to want it to be. That's all I'm saying.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users