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HAWAII (1966) Roadshow vs. General Release Version


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#1 of 41 OFFLINE   Chuck Pennington

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Posted April 04 2012 - 05:19 AM

Hey all! In my never-ending quest to waste time, I finished a little analysis I thought might interest some other people. I have been wanting to view HAWAII (1966) again for a while, as I had only seen the longer Laserdisc version before obtaining the DVD of the general release cut. Even from some quick scanning, I could see the more recent anamorphic transfer on the DVD far surpassed the old Laserdisc in most respects (but not always on color, but more on that at another time). I had read the basics on what was different between the two versions, but I wanted a definitive list - so I put the DVD on my iPad (there is a titleset with the overture and exit music put back in and one without - I used the one with the overture and exit music added back in on the DVD) and I played it along with the Laserdisc and isolated the 18 additional or altered scenes (not including the entr'acte). I also found one scene timed for day on the DVD that is timed for night on the Laserdisc (which is in line with when the scene takes place in the story). What a wonderful movie and score! It is touch-and-go for a little while at the beginning, but what a strong narrative and statement on religion and different cultures. I was most surprised by how much of Julie Andrews that was cut from the general release version, and I think her character suffered the most from the cuts. Such an odd situation considering that she was very popular at the time and got top billing, but oh well... I uploaded all of the additional or altered footage (save for the scene incorrectly timed for day instead of night on the DVD) in two segments on YouTube. I usually put a few seconds before and after the footage to help show where it fit within the general release version of the film. The times below should help as well. I hope this film is restored properly someday. Only a few of the additional scenes on the Laserdisc have turned red and appear to be from workprint, as the rest all appear to be from the same print - 70mm? I dunno. At least the source they used for the majority of the Laserdisc had some blue in it (though boosted beyond reason on the Laserdisc transfer) that is missing almost entirely on the DVD. The DVD sure looks like it was mastered from a fading print and color correction was used to hide it as best as possible in the transfer. Don't get me started on the sound. :-) Here are the links to the footage: Part 1: Part 2: I will post the detailed text of the comparison when I'm done in a few minutes.

#2 of 41 OFFLINE   Chuck Pennington

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Posted April 04 2012 - 05:49 AM

Hawaii notes Times are listed where footage is missing on the DVD of the version with the overture and exit music. The times of the deleted or alternate footage are approximate as they include a few seconds before and after that are in the general release version of the film as well. 15:47 Abner says farewell to the family he is leaving. (1:25) 26:04 Jerusha has on her wedding dress and consoles her sister, Charity. (0:30) 28:02 Instead of a fade-out to the crowd, the camera cuts to a closer tracking shot of Jerusha's sisters and family as well as shots of her and Abner on the ship. (0:23) 32:26 There is an additional line of Abner’s dialog before being heckled by the crew. (0:07) 33:22 Instead of a fade to the next scene, there is underscoring during the transition to a scene where a few crew members agree to follow Christ, there are additional shots of the sea, and a scene where they are receiving bananas onto the ship. (1:42) 33:45 Instead of going from the map to the sea storm, there is a discussion about the route, a scene involving force-feeding Jerusha bananas, and a scene where Abner takes the Bible away from the drinking crew and demanding profane novels be thrown overboard. (2:51) 39:54 Instead of a fade-out and underscore to a sunset, there is a bright day at sea the day after the storm. The captain says he is glad to have Abner aboard, and then Jerusha stands up to Abner’s bullying, throws bananas overboard, and gives a crew member her Bible. Abner and Jerusha then discuss God and the godless crew in bed. (1:42 and 0:36) 1:07:54 In the place of a transition to a ship, there is a scene of a man bringing his dead wife ashore and explaining how she died giving birth. Abner vows that Andrews and their child will survive childbirth. (2:26) 1:21:07 There are additional shots of Jerusha having a difficult labor and dialog about her water breaking. (0:30) 1:22:20 There is one additional shot of Abner opening Jerusha’s legs. (0:08) 1:27:00 The congregation is singing and celebrating the welcoming of Illiki into the fold. In the general release version there is a close-up of Abner kissing Noelani’s head to cover the cut. (0:50) 1:28:13 There is an additional shot of Malama being carried in her chair. (0:04) 1:30:55 The day for night beach scene is not properly timed on the DVD. The entire scene takes place at dusk and is timed properly on the Laserdisc. (same footage in both versions) 1:40:55 Abner has a fever after the fight and Jerusha tends to him. Abner says he sinned when he took her and is sinning by keeping her, and then the film goes into the intermission and then entr'acte. (2:31 and 3:36) 1:44:40 There is a discussion of preventing the sale of land to non-Hawaiians. (1:22 – poor quality footage) 2:13:22 There is additional and alternate footage of Keoki carrying the baby to the sea as Abner preaches against incest. This alternate edit of the scene is more graphic and powerful as it shows more of Keoki leaving the baby in the sea to drown. Jerusha walks out on the sermon and chastises Abner in front of everyone. (1:51) 2:19:53 There is a fade-in to a tracking shot of the sick bad that continues until we reach Jerusha, looking exhausted. This shot is cut short in the general release version. (0:25) 2:31:58 Abner questions a man about finding Illiki, who was sold to a sailor. (0:24 – poor quality footage)

#3 of 41 OFFLINE   NY2LA

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Posted April 04 2012 - 06:06 AM

the reconstruction of HAWAII was done, and paid for, by turner/warner, and they no longer hold the rights, I believe that is why the long version has not been released. fox/ua would have had to make some kind of a deal with turner/warner to get it, or else reconstruct it on their own, and no surprise, they're not interested. It's a shame. If I had the means I would have someone make a DVD of Warner's laserdisc.

#4 of 41 OFFLINE   Chuck Pennington

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Posted April 04 2012 - 06:42 AM

That's easy - I made a dual-layer DVD from the Laserdisc, but it doesn't stand up as very watchable on an HDTV. I believe the reconstruction was on video, not film, so just doing a new transfer isn't possible. The Laserdisc was MGM, and the DVD has the overture and exit music from that Laserdisc master (with the same low resolution graphics). I agree that the distributors of this film don't want to invest the time, effort and money into doing it properly. Sad.

#5 of 41 OFFLINE   NY2LA

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Posted April 04 2012 - 07:27 AM

That's easy - I made a dual-layer DVD from the Laserdisc, but it doesn't stand up as very watchable on an HDTV. I believe the reconstruction was on video, not film, so just doing a new transfer isn't possible. The Laserdisc was MGM, and the DVD has the overture and exit music from that Laserdisc master (with the same low resolution graphics). I agree that the distributors of this film don't want to invest the time, effort and money into doing it properly. Sad.

Ah right, comes out windowboxed, doesn't it? The question re remaster is where do the missing pieces reside, would anyone at Fox/UA bother to look and, well... yeah. Was Bette's overboard hurling any easier to see in either version?

#6 of 41 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted April 04 2012 - 09:09 AM




Originally Posted by NY2LA 

the reconstruction of HAWAII was done, and paid for, by turner/warner, and they no longer hold the rights, I believe that is why the long version has not been released. fox/ua would have had to make some kind of a deal with turner/warner to get it, or else reconstruct it on their own, and no surprise, they're not interested. It's a shame. If I had the means I would have someone make a DVD of Warner's laserdisc.


Turner/Warner never had any rights to HAWAII.  It was a United Artists Film and and basically resided with MGM except for that short 10 months in 1986 when Turner owned both the UA and MGM libraries.  The "reconstruction was done by MGM around the same time they did the IAMMMMW and The Alamo.  Turner held the UA film for such a short time that he did not do anything with them and Warner never had control of the title.  The Laserdisc is from MGM just as The Alamo and IAMMMMW were.


I wrote MGM when they announced the DVD version of HAWAII asking if it was the roadshow version.  My answer was that no, for the elements for the longer version were in poor shape.  That seems to be the basic answer for the longer versions of IAMMMMW and The Alamo.

The DVD is a great transfer, but as with Chuck, I wish it was of the longer version and included the Intermission, which it does not.


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#7 of 41 OFFLINE   NY2LA

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Posted April 04 2012 - 09:53 AM

Turner owned the company that produced the complete version on video at the time it was released. I recall seeing the tacky Turner logo on MGM releases of this period and they were distributed through Warner for quite a while. The people responsible for the reconstruction of HAWAII are now with Warner and not with Fox. There is no one similar at Fox who would care to undertake such a project. Again I don't necessarily believe current studio spokesmen (especially this studio) that a reconstruction isn't possible.

#8 of 41 OFFLINE   adklz

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Posted April 04 2012 - 10:50 AM

I have the 188 min version that was issued on vhs by MGM/UA and on my old 32" Trinitron it looked pretty good and consistent throughout. Needless to say it looks considerably less terrific on my 50" plasma. I didn't have the heart to buy the abridged dvd version. This is a movie, like Cleopatra, that is far superior to it's reputation. I hope, someday, a complete version can be issued on blu-ray.

#9 of 41 OFFLINE   Chuck Pennington

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Posted April 04 2012 - 11:49 AM

Ah right, comes out windowboxed, doesn't it?

Only if you don't know what you're doing.

#10 of 41 OFFLINE   Chuck Pennington

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Posted April 04 2012 - 11:53 AM

Turner owned the company that produced the complete version on video at the time it was released. I recall seeing the tacky Turner logo on MGM releases of this period and they were distributed through Warner for quite a while. The people responsible for the reconstruction of HAWAII are now with Warner and not with Fox. There is no one similar at Fox who would care to undertake such a project. Again I don't necessarily believe current studio spokesmen (especially this studio) that a reconstruction isn't possible.

I believe United Artists titles have always stayed with MGM, and there is no Turner logo at the beginning of HAWAII on the Laserdisc, and I'll bet there isn't on the VHS either. Just like WEST SIDE STORY was never under Warner's umbrella, I don't believe HAWAII ever has been either. The real problem is that this was a video restoration, not film. This version only appears as an early '90s video master in standard definition. The Laserdisc looks terribly soft in comparison to the DVD, but it is full-length and actually has much better color in many respects - not because of some format superiority but because of the print used for transfer. I'll have to post some comparison pics to show how the blue is almost all gone on the source used for the DVD.

#11 of 41 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted April 04 2012 - 01:36 PM



Originally Posted by NY2LA 

Turner owned the company that produced the complete version on video at the time it was released. I recall seeing the tacky Turner logo on MGM releases of this period and they were distributed through Warner for quite a while. The people responsible for the reconstruction of HAWAII are now with Warner and not with Fox. There is no one similar at Fox who would care to undertake such a project. Again I don't necessarily believe current studio spokesmen (especially this studio) that a reconstruction isn't possible.



The Turner Logo is not on the HAWAII Laserdisc.  I have it and just looked at it, no Turner logo, just the MGM/UA logo.  Yes the people now with Warner were at one time with MGM and did an excellent job handling the MGM and Warner Library at the time. Yes you did see the tacky Turner logo on pre 1986 MGM films, one the RKO films and on the pre 1950 Warner films and Cartoon, but not on any UA releases which included the Jame Bond and Rocky titles.  In1996, when Warner bought Turner, the MGM pre 1986 and pre 50's Warner Brothers films went to Warners but MGM continued to release those titles on home entertainment platforms due to the agreement when Turned bought the films in 1986.  In 2004 Warner gained control of all those titles and have since released those titles.  They never had control of HAWAII that has always been a MGM/UA property.

http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/


As you can see there is not a Turner Logo on the back cover of the laserdisc as there would be if Turner had control.  Just the MGM/UA and UA logo.


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#12 of 41 OFFLINE   Matt Hough

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Posted April 04 2012 - 02:14 PM

All this talk makes me want to take the Hawaii laserdisc off the shelf and watch it tomorrow. Depending on my work schedule, I may do that. I haven't watched it in a decade at least.



#13 of 41 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted April 04 2012 - 02:51 PM



Originally Posted by MattH. 

All this talk makes me want to take the Hawaii laserdisc off the shelf and watch it tomorrow. Depending on my work schedule, I may do that. I haven't watched it in a decade at least.


I think you will have a great time with it.  I watched most of it today and it is a pure joy, but as Chuck says, the DVD is much clearer and sharp.  Then again that was the reason to move to DVD's.


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#14 of 41 OFFLINE   Chuck Pennington

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Posted April 04 2012 - 03:01 PM

All this talk makes me want to take the Hawaii laserdisc off the shelf and watch it tomorrow. Depending on my work schedule, I may do that. I haven't watched it in a decade at least.

I hadn't seen it in years either, but, BOY what a movie! I'm concerned about the condition of the original elements, if the problematic Laserdisc and DVD releases are any indication. I originally thought the anamorphic DVD of the general release version was superior, and as far as sharpness and resolution is concerned that is absolutely correct. However, though there is more image on the sides on the DVD, the image appears a little squished vertically when compared to the Laserdisc. The geometry of the Laserdisc looks more correct, as can be seen in some of the screen captures below. Check out how oblong the faces are on the DVD. The color is very strange as well. The DVD appears to have been heavily color corrected and a lot of the blue has been removed, and light contrast areas bloom very badly and lose all detail. The Laserdisc has many color issues as well, though I do prefer the color balance on it over the DVD. It really sucks because there are some individual scenes and shots that look WONDERFUL on the DVD, but then others look terribly faded and processed to try to compensate. I also saw some weird color fringing that is not on the Laserdisc (but it is so soft that even if it was/is it may not be detectable), the kind of fringing I've seen in 3-strip Technicolor films where the strips don't line up anymore. The sound is much better on the Laserdisc as well, but I'd wager that neither format presents the film at anything close to its best. I got the frames as close as I could in this comparison. Laserdisc http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ DVD http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ Laserdisc http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ DVD http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ Laserdisc http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ DVD http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ Laserdisc http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ DVD http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ Laserdisc http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ DVD http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ Laserdisc http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ DVD http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ Laserdisc http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ DVD http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ Laserdisc http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ DVD http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ Laserdisc http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ DVD http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ Laserdisc http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ DVD http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ Laserdisc http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ DVD http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ Laserdisc http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/ DVD http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/

#15 of 41 OFFLINE   Douglas R

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Posted April 04 2012 - 06:29 PM

Here are the links to the footage: Part 1: Part 2: I will post the detailed text of the comparison when I'm done in a few minutes.

Many thanks indeed for those clips Chuck, which I'd never seen before. I saw the UK general release version in 1967 - unfortunately it was not given a road show in the UK. I was very impressed with the film and could never understand why it was so poorly received.

#16 of 41 OFFLINE   Joe Caps

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Posted April 04 2012 - 10:47 PM

It is always said this film was poorly received, but I think it actuallydid quite well. The summer after it opened in roadshow, I saw it on general release and it was still uncut. CBS at one time ran it on a single evening, even more cut than the standard. they leave New England on theboat and in the verynext shotk, they are arriving in Hawaii !!!!

#17 of 41 OFFLINE   Matt Hough

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Posted April 05 2012 - 12:35 AM

It certainly was not poorly received by the public. It did very well at the box-office and earned six Oscar nominations. Her success in this and Torn Curtain (as well as The Sound of Music which was still playing original runs) in 1966 allowed Julie Andrews to attain the rank of #1 at the box-office for 1966.



#18 of 41 OFFLINE   Matt Hough

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Posted April 05 2012 - 12:37 AM

And thanks for those comparisons, Chuck. It's easy to see that with DVD, the image attained clarity and contrast at the noticeable loss of blue in the color timing.



#19 of 41 OFFLINE   Jim*Tod

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Posted April 05 2012 - 01:03 AM

Here is a question for you guys since you seem to know alot about HAWAII. From what I understand there were some limited 70mm blowups for this when it was originally shown in its road show engagements. But some sources indicate that at no point did it have a stereo sound track.... or one source indicates that only the main titles had stereo sound. I know the vhs version had an "enhanced for stereo" soundtrack. And a fairly recent release of the Elmer Bernstein score on cd had the original soundtrack album in stereo, but the extended version on a 2nd disc was in mono only. As usual any online info I have to take with a grain of salt.... including the reason there was no stereo soundtrack was that the producers ran out of money. Anyway, any insights would be interesting. Thanks.

#20 of 41 OFFLINE   Douglas R

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Posted April 05 2012 - 01:28 AM

Here is a question for you guys since you seem to know alot about HAWAII. From what I understand there were some limited 70mm blowups for this when it was originally shown in its road show engagements. But some sources indicate that at no point did it have a stereo sound track.... or one source indicates that only the main titles had stereo sound. I know the vhs version had an "enhanced for stereo" soundtrack. And a fairly recent release of the Elmer Bernstein score on cd had the original soundtrack album in stereo, but the extended version on a 2nd disc was in mono only. As usual any online info I have to take with a grain of salt.... including the reason there was no stereo soundtrack was that the producers ran out of money. Anyway, any insights would be interesting. Thanks.

This thread discussed the sound issue: http://www.hometheat...76/uncut-hawaii




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