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Aspect Ratio Documentation


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#3561 of 5348 Brandon Conway

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Posted March 18 2014 - 09:04 AM

My guess is that the film was matted anywhere from 1.66-1.85 in theaters depending on the country it was shown in at the time. Weir seems to prefer 1.77, as the Director's Cut of Picnic at Hanging Rock was made specifically for the Criterion release in 1998, and the DVD at that time was released 1.77 (though non-anamorphic), with a limited theatrical run at the time as well.

 

Would be interesting to see if there's any documentation specific to the film. Could be a Barry Lyndon-like situation.


Edited by Brandon Conway, March 18 2014 - 09:05 AM.

"And now the reprimand, from an American critic. He reproaches me for using film as a sacred & lasting medium, like a painting or a book. He does not believe that filmmaking is an inferior art, but he believes, and quite rightly, that a reel goes quickly, that the public are looking above all for relaxation, that film is fragile and that it is pretentious to express the power of one's soul by such ephemeral and delicate means, that Charlie Chaplin's or Buster Keaton's first films can only be seen on very rare and badly spoiled prints. I add that the cinema is making daily progress and that eventually films that we consider marvelous today will soon be forgotten because of new dimensions & colour. This is true. But for 4 weeks this film [The Blood of a Poet] has been shown to audiences that have been so attentive, so eager & so warm, that I wonder after all there is not an anonymous public who are looking for more than relaxation in the cinema." - Jean Cocteau, 1932


#3562 of 5348 EddieLarkin

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Posted March 18 2014 - 10:02 AM

The old non-anamorphic Criterion DVD was 1.66:1. Looking at caps, the 1.66:1 version and the 1.77:1 version have the exact same top line, with the bottom slightly reduced on the latter. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a similar case to Robocop; 1.66:1 when non-anamorphic to reduce the black bars, and then (almost) back to the theatrical ratio for anamorphic presentations. But who knows.


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#3563 of 5348 Brandon Conway

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Posted March 18 2014 - 10:45 AM

Huh. Could have sworn the DVD was 1.77, but been a while since I'd seen it. In any case, the new disc includes an "Extended Interview" with Weir as a bonus (presumably a new interview).

 

And for all we know the imdb.com listing is based off of the 1998 Criterion release.


Edited by Brandon Conway, March 18 2014 - 10:47 AM.

"And now the reprimand, from an American critic. He reproaches me for using film as a sacred & lasting medium, like a painting or a book. He does not believe that filmmaking is an inferior art, but he believes, and quite rightly, that a reel goes quickly, that the public are looking above all for relaxation, that film is fragile and that it is pretentious to express the power of one's soul by such ephemeral and delicate means, that Charlie Chaplin's or Buster Keaton's first films can only be seen on very rare and badly spoiled prints. I add that the cinema is making daily progress and that eventually films that we consider marvelous today will soon be forgotten because of new dimensions & colour. This is true. But for 4 weeks this film [The Blood of a Poet] has been shown to audiences that have been so attentive, so eager & so warm, that I wonder after all there is not an anonymous public who are looking for more than relaxation in the cinema." - Jean Cocteau, 1932


#3564 of 5348 Vincent_P

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Posted March 19 2014 - 08:31 AM

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A HARD DAY'S NIGHT aspect ratio now listed as 1.75:1 :  http://www.criterion...ard-day-s-night

 

Vincent


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#3565 of 5348 Brandon Conway

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Posted March 19 2014 - 10:08 AM

Boom!


"And now the reprimand, from an American critic. He reproaches me for using film as a sacred & lasting medium, like a painting or a book. He does not believe that filmmaking is an inferior art, but he believes, and quite rightly, that a reel goes quickly, that the public are looking above all for relaxation, that film is fragile and that it is pretentious to express the power of one's soul by such ephemeral and delicate means, that Charlie Chaplin's or Buster Keaton's first films can only be seen on very rare and badly spoiled prints. I add that the cinema is making daily progress and that eventually films that we consider marvelous today will soon be forgotten because of new dimensions & colour. This is true. But for 4 weeks this film [The Blood of a Poet] has been shown to audiences that have been so attentive, so eager & so warm, that I wonder after all there is not an anonymous public who are looking for more than relaxation in the cinema." - Jean Cocteau, 1932


#3566 of 5348 Bob Furmanek

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Posted March 19 2014 - 01:44 PM

For those readers new to this thread:

 

1.75:1 (as approved by the Technical Committee of the British Film Producers Association) was the European non-anamorphic widescreen standard as of October, 1955.

 

It was not 1.66.

 

Full documentation can be found here: http://www.3dfilmarc...n-documentation

 

UK standards 1957 (2).jpg

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#3567 of 5348 EddieLarkin

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Posted March 19 2014 - 03:32 PM

An excellent document Bob. How very telling that even VistaVision prints were recommended to be run at 1.75:1 over here.


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#3568 of 5348 Bob Furmanek

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Posted March 19 2014 - 03:43 PM

Precisely, good eye Nick.

 

Note that was for the anamorphic VistaVision prints.

 

Non-anamorphic was 2:1.


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#3569 of 5348 EddieLarkin

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Posted March 19 2014 - 04:45 PM

I wasn't even aware VistaVision prints were available in an anamorphic variety. I know that the 8-perf horizontal prints were rare and reserved for premieres and the like (at 2.1 according to the document), and that there were non-anamorphic 4-perf reduction prints that could be matted as desired (1.75:1 is suggested for these as well, like the anamorphic style). But why were anamorphic prints even necessary? Widescreen Museum detail their existence but do not really explain why they were offered.

 

edit: oh wait, I must have overlooked the following:

 

 

The benefit derived from the anamorphic print is that the frame was 33% larger than a "flat" 1.85:1 print, resulting in a brighter, sharper image on screen.

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#3570 of 5348 EddieLarkin

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Posted March 19 2014 - 05:10 PM

On a related note, Criterion are presenting Stuart Cooper's Overlord (1975) at 1.66:1. Twilight Time presented his follow up, The Disappearance (1977) at 1.85:1 (which of course, it looked fine at). Both were British productions. Interestingly though, he supervised the former transfer but not the latter.

 

I know that TT did some interviews with him (filmed at Bruce's house!), so it would be interesting if anyone who may be in direct contact with him might mention this discrepancy. Specifically if the cameras used to film Overlord were really marked at 1.66:1, or something else.

 

Though I wouldn't hold it against him if he finds such concern over the difference between these aspect ratios to be somewhat baffling!



#3571 of 5348 haineshisway

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Posted March 19 2014 - 06:15 PM

On a related note, Criterion are presenting Stuart Cooper's Overlord (1975) at 1.66:1. Twilight Time presented his follow up, The Disappearance (1977) at 1.85:1 (which of course, it looked fine at). Both were British productions. Interestingly though, he supervised the former transfer but not the latter.

 

I know that TT did some interviews with him (filmed at Bruce's house!), so it would be interesting if anyone who may be in direct contact with him might mention this discrepancy. Specifically if the cameras used to film Overlord were really marked at 1.66:1, or something else.

 

Though I wouldn't hold it against him if he finds such concern over the difference between these aspect ratios to be somewhat baffling!

I'm seeing him soon - we're doing the soundtrack for Overlord (and it will also have The Disappearance on it, as well as another film he made called Hustle) - so I'll ask him.



#3572 of 5348 Vincent_P

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Posted March 19 2014 - 08:22 PM

Doesn't OVERLORD use a lot of vintage stock footage?  Maybe that's why he went with the taller 1.66:1 aspect ratio.

 

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#3573 of 5348 Brenty

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Posted March 20 2014 - 03:58 AM

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#3574 of 5348 Yorkshire

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Posted March 20 2014 - 04:32 AM

I'm seeing him soon - we're doing the soundtrack for Overlord (and it will also have The Disappearance on it, as well as another film he made called Hustle) - so I'll ask him.

 

Bruce, that's interesting.  You might want to ask him about what Criterion offered him with Overlord.

 

This is something that people have raised several times in this (and other) threads.  Did Criterion provide a 1.66:1 and ask if that'd be okay?  Or did they ask him for a specific ratio.

 

It'd be interesting to see how they work in this regard.

 

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#3575 of 5348 EddieLarkin

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Posted March 20 2014 - 06:12 AM

That would be great Bruce, thanks! As Steve said, it would be interesting to know if Criterion offered 1.66:1 and had Stuart okay it, or if he specifically requested it? Also, does he recall if the film was hard or soft matted? If the former, approximately at what ratio?

 

Doesn't OVERLORD use a lot of vintage stock footage?  Maybe that's why he went with the taller 1.66:1 aspect ratio.

 

You're right, and that explanation makes sense, though I'm sure 1.33:1 stock footage that can be cropped okay to 1.66:1 will also look okay at 1.75:1. Specifically though, it's how the original 1975 footage was shot that is important.



#3576 of 5348 Bob Furmanek

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Posted March 21 2014 - 09:38 AM

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I've just seem some examples of the stunning new Blu-ray of SABRINA.

 

For the first time since the original theatrical play-dates nearly sixty years ago, Billy Wilder's compositions and Charles Lang Jr.'s cinematography are seen in the correct aspect ratio.

 

Kudo's to Ned Price, George Feltenstein and the outstanding technicians at Warner Bros. Motion Picture Imaging for trusting the primary source materials and presenting this film in the directors intended widescreen version.

 

euro-samp_2_cr.jpg

800_sabrina_02_blu-ray_.jpg


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#3577 of 5348 FoxyMulder

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Posted March 21 2014 - 10:38 AM

I've just seem some examples of the stunning new Blu-ray of SABRINA.

 

For the first time since the original theatrical play-dates nearly sixty years ago, Billy Wilder's compositions and Charles Lang Jr.'s cinematography are seen in the correct aspect ratio.

 

Kudo's to Ned Price, George Feltenstein and the outstanding technicians at Warner Bros. Motion Picture Imaging for trusting the primary source materials and presenting this film in the directors intended widescreen version.

 

Are you sure Warner had anything to do with this. ?

 

It's been available in France for some time and likely the same transfer as this release.


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#3578 of 5348 lukejosephchung

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Posted March 21 2014 - 10:39 AM

Are you sure Warner had anything to do with this. ?

 

It's been available in France for some time and likely the same transfer as this release.

The new US reissue of "Sabrina" was redone in widescreen...the EU releases are in 1.37:1 Academy ratio sourced from an older transfer...


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#3579 of 5348 FoxyMulder

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Posted March 21 2014 - 10:43 AM

The new US reissue of "Sabrina" was redone in widescreen...the EU releases are in 1.37:1 Academy ratio sourced from an older transfer...

 

That's good to know, this doesn't happen too often, the quality should be much better then.  ( I'll give Bob a like this too )


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     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

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#3580 of 5348 Bob Furmanek

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Posted March 21 2014 - 11:07 AM

Sadly, many of Paramount's early widescreen films have only been released in full-frame on DVD, such as RED GARTERS, LIVING IT UP, THE NAKED JUNGLE, CASANOVA'S BIG NIGHT, etc.


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