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Aspect Ratio Documentation


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#3401 of 5402 OFFLINE   Cremildo

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Posted December 23 2013 - 06:45 AM

I happened on a rerun of WILL & GRACE the other day, and the image was stretched to fill the 16:9 screen. How can people actually watch shows this way? I couldn't change the channel fast enough.

 

 

My parents don't even notice.

 

When I change the aspect ratio to the proper 4x3, they say people look too tall. :unsure:



#3402 of 5402 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted December 23 2013 - 07:16 AM

I happened on a rerun of WILL & GRACE the other day, and the image was stretched to fill the 16:9 screen. How can people actually watch shows this way? I couldn't change the channel fast enough.


I'm with you.

#3403 of 5402 OFFLINE   Charles Smith

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Posted December 23 2013 - 08:27 AM

Totally.  I can't watch a geometrically distorted picture for one minute.  No way, no how.

 

I know people who do it all the time, and believe me, I would probably damage real friendships if I spoke my mind honestly to some of them.  It's sad, but how anyone can do that is wholly incomprehensible to me.



#3404 of 5402 OFFLINE   Peter Apruzzese

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Posted December 23 2013 - 09:14 AM

I'm forever "fixing" relative's sets to combat the stretching when I visit them. The sets are always stretching again by the next time I visit. Seems like some people love the stretch.


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#3405 of 5402 ONLINE   Bob Furmanek

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Posted December 23 2013 - 09:19 AM

A noted and well-respected archivist has people over to his home occasionally to run some rarities. The 1.37 image is always stretched to fill the widescreen set. I offered to fix it but he didn't want me to change any settings.

 

I'm not kidding!


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#3406 of 5402 OFFLINE   Moe Dickstein

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Posted December 23 2013 - 02:54 PM

Was it stretched or re-formatted?

Many of the shows of the 2000s and later were filmed with the coming 1.78 in mind, however some of course are shown stretched 4x3.
Yes, these strange things happen all the time - PT Anderson, Magnolia

#3407 of 5402 OFFLINE   Moe Dickstein

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Posted December 23 2013 - 02:56 PM

I don't mind when they re-do shows to fit the 1.78 for syndication (Seinfeld) but otherwise of course we'd want to see the side bars.
Yes, these strange things happen all the time - PT Anderson, Magnolia

#3408 of 5402 OFFLINE   EddieLarkin

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Posted December 23 2013 - 05:53 PM

Sometimes shows were filmed in 16x9, but were never intended to be seen that way. During Buffy's original run on TV in the U.K., the BBC started using the full width of the image Season 4 onwards, but no effort whatsoever had been made to protect the far sides. Season 4 especially is rife with mics, stage hands and props visible. Joss Whedon made sure the show was presented 4x3 for its entire run of DVD releases in the U.S., but unfortunately did not do the same for the DVDs in the U.K.

 

http://i.imgur.com/40YmyGB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/V9oWq11.png

 

I don't have a cap of it, but in one particular episode a character is menaced by a monster that enters the frame from the side. In the 16x9 version you literally see the the stage hand handling the puppet come into frame to attack the actors with it. If that ever makes it to Blu-ray I pray to God it's 4x3.

 

There's an article about it with more caps here:

 

http://www.quadruple...y-never-be-blu/


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#3409 of 5402 OFFLINE   Moe Dickstein

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Posted December 24 2013 - 12:07 AM

yes, of course only shows that were protected...
Yes, these strange things happen all the time - PT Anderson, Magnolia

#3410 of 5402 OFFLINE   GregK

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Posted December 25 2013 - 02:55 PM

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The television adoption of widescreen was sort of the reverse trend of how it was handled in the 1950s, and certainly has a good number of obvious variables.
 
At the start of widescreen television, the typical method on ABC was to center cut (crop) for its standard definition feed.  And widescreen televisions at the start of ABC HD broadcasting were of course, only a select few. Therefore the creators of ABC content would typically compose everything for 4x3 and "the 16x9 sidebars", as they were called at the time, were simply "filler".  I worked in Operations at a Hub facility during this timeframe where we monitored 4x3 SD air content along with 16x9 HD content simultaneously on monitors right next to each other, which made for great comparisons. The wilted set piece plant often made its appearance in the extra 16x9 area, or a portion of a head, nose, or what have you .. as those shooting were focused on their primary 4x3 viewing audience. There were also some surprises, like a few Peter Jennings specials where two separate masters were created. A good example of this was when (roughly) 4x3 archival photos were used, the 4x3 SD version would show more picture info, while the HD version was cropped for 16x9, but not a simple center crop.  Only 16x9 HD footage used in the specials were actually "cropped" in the SD version. The same went for text and graphics. A few of the popular shows (LOST as one example) also had special 4x3 and 16x9 edited versions, at least when it came to the opening and closing on-screen text in the first season. As widescreen sets became more popular, so did the 16x9 framing.  Now the landscape is totally reversed, where there is no longer an SD ABC feed. And 4x3 compositions are, for the most part.. very secondary and sometimes totally discarded.
 
Having also monitored NBC content during the transition to widescreen, I was also impressed how NBC handled their SD content. With the exception of some dramas and news content, NBC would typically letterbox their SD downconverted content. This hypothetically allowed content creators to compose in widescreen without fear of their work being hacked for 4x3, or at a minimum, protected for the primary runs when shown on NBC. The network was also was the first to push for AFD (Active Format Description) in their HD feed metadata, which for the more advanced SD set top boxes, could tailor the downconverted image per the wishes of the content creators.  For example, news or sports could be set to center cut in 4x3, so the 4x3 displayed a larger "full" image on the 4x3 screen, while other titles were coded to letterbox to preserve the widescreen compositions. AFD as used by NBC did not affect widescreen viewers in any way. Actual implementation of AFD in home gear had a slow start, but it showed the network cared about how everyone viewed their content, no matter what the AR was.  NBC also eventually ditched their SD only signal, and with widescreen displays now being cheap and prevalent, the need of AFD is nearing its end.
 
Again, I tend to consider widescreen television a different discussion of sorts, compared to great research and interesting ongoing discussions Bob, Jack, and the rest of the HTF have been discussing here in this thread, but thought this was worth a quick mention at this time.

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#3411 of 5402 OFFLINE   Vic Pardo

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Posted December 25 2013 - 04:03 PM

When watching "Pioneers of Television Westerns" on PBS two years ago--in SD, I was stunned at how every clip from a TV western was unforgivably cropped to fit some new AR standard imposed on the program's makers. I didn't see the other entries in that series, but I'm sure all the classic TV clips were treated this way.



#3412 of 5402 OFFLINE   RolandL

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Posted December 29 2013 - 09:26 AM

Right now Ivanhoe is on TCM, Its 1.33:1 on the SD channel, cropped to 1.77 on HD.


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#3413 of 5402 ONLINE   Bob Furmanek

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Posted December 30 2013 - 10:11 AM

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Happy 2014 from Julie Adams and the 3-D Film Archive.

 

Watch for DRAGONFLY SQUADRON, THE BUBBLE* and 3-D RARITIES fully restored from master 35mm elements on 3-D Blu-ray in 2014!

 

543934_390156284406301_557014261_n.jpg

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=8RIDvciB-GM

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=phd5kVmleO0

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=NXEYPaHtQgU

 

*Please note: THE BUBBLE is not to be confused with UNDER THE DOME.


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#3414 of 5402 OFFLINE   EddieLarkin

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Posted December 30 2013 - 10:55 AM

and 3-D RARITIES fully restored from master 35mm elements on 3-D Blu-ray in 2014!

 

Now this sounds exciting! I don't suppose you might tease us with what will be featured on the disc?

 

Also, can you confirm which distributor/label The Bubble and the Rarities disc/set will be coming from?


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#3415 of 5402 ONLINE   Bob Furmanek

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Posted December 30 2013 - 11:01 AM

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Thanks, Eddie.

 

RARITIES will include many of the shorts mentioned on the home page of our website. http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/

 

At this stage, I'm not at liberty to make the "official" announcement. The individual distributors will do that once they have a release date locked in.

 

Rest assured, most of the Archive's material will be on Blu-ray by the end of 2014. It's taken a VERY long time to make this happen!


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#3416 of 5402 OFFLINE   EddieLarkin

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Posted December 30 2013 - 11:15 AM

I can't wait, and will make sure to get everything day one. Some of those shorts sound great! I hope there will be more stuff in the years to come, and wish you all the best.


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#3417 of 5402 OFFLINE   Doug Bull

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Posted December 30 2013 - 02:06 PM

Great news Bob.  What a wonderful achievement.

Thank you so much.

 

Will they be available at Amazon?

 

 

Doug.


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#3418 of 5402 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted December 30 2013 - 03:46 PM

Bob you just made 2014 for me as the Cinerama films have done for the past two years. I'll get everything you have released.
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#3419 of 5402 ONLINE   Bob Furmanek

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Posted December 30 2013 - 06:01 PM

Thank you Nick, Doug and Allen, you're very kind.

 

Yes, they will be available on Amazon.


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#3420 of 5402 OFFLINE   Adam_S

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Posted January 15 2014 - 01:57 PM

What's the aspect ratio for riot in cell block 11 and il sorpasso?


 




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