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NFL 2012 Off Season Discussion Thread


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#1 of 27 OFFLINE   nolesrule

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Posted March 28 2012 - 07:06 PM

Scott, the referee (white hat) is in charge of the officiating of the game, including interpretation of rules, and therefore should be the one taking the responsibility of upholding/overturning calls on the field as the leader of the officiating crew. I don't have a problem if there is someone upstairs saying, "hey ref, you might want to take a look at that last play". Hockey is a different game, the need for replay is rare, and more often than not does not call for the interpretation of complex rules, but whether the puck crossed the goal line completely.

#2 of 27 OFFLINE   Scott Merryfield

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Posted March 29 2012 - 04:44 AM

Scott, the referee (white hat) is in charge of the officiating of the game, including interpretation of rules, and therefore should be the one taking the responsibility of upholding/overturning calls on the field as the leader of the officiating crew. I don't have a problem if there is someone upstairs saying, "hey ref, you might want to take a look at that last play". Hockey is a different game, the need for replay is rare, and more often than not does not call for the interpretation of complex rules, but whether the puck crossed the goal line completely.
I disagree, Joe. Using booth reviews works fine in college football, and there is no reason why it cannot work in the NFL. The official in the booth would be a trained ref and part of the officiating crew. There is nothing magical about the official on the field with the white hat, other than he is in charge of the entire crew and gets to talk to the crowd. Other officials on the field make calls on every play, so why can't one in the booth? The booth official is communicating with the head ref on the field, just like any other member of the crew, to discuss any possible complex rules interpretations. The flow of the game has already been negatively affected by all the TV timeouts after scores and the added replay reviews of all scoring plays. Adding these additional reviews and requiring the head referee to go under the hood is only going to make it worse. Moving the reviews to the booth would help get some of the flow back to the game, as well as to allow every play to be reviewed without a lot more stoppages. The problem with reviewing just scoring plays and turnovers is when a play is NOT ruled a score or turnover on the field, but should have been. Under the current rules, this would not be reviewed automatically. The above issue affected the outcome of a Lions - Packers game last season. Detroit had already used both its reviews -- one call overturned and one upheld -- when Titus Young caught a pass in the end zone but it was ruled incomplete on the field. Replays showed the play was actually a catch and should have been a TD, but there was no way to review the call under the replay rules.

#3 of 27 OFFLINE   nolesrule

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Posted March 29 2012 - 10:49 AM

I should have prefaced my comments by saying I have had this discussion with multiple former collegiate and NFL officials. Obviously, those are opinion-based discussions, but we tend to be on the same page regarding responsibilities. Rules interpretation often times requires the actual viewing of a replay, something that a booth official cannot adequately describe and be accurate. Other officials do make calls on the field, but it is teamwork (and a flag can be discussed and overruled by other members of the officiating squad through discussion), and it is still ultimately in the hands of the referee to enforce the rule (or what you call talking to the crowd) or not. As for the college system working, that's debateable, and i actually disagree. I've seen too many cases where there were communications issues that resulted in additional replays that caused unnecessary delays in the game. Too many college games to count anymore, and it actually has gotten worse in recent years. You weren't at the FSU-Miami game last year. We had a 10 minute break in the game just to overturn an interception into an incompletion that included 3 separate replay sessions to reset the game properly. That's not the model of efficiency. (I mean, who knew you could have 2nd-and-9 following an incompletion on 1st down, right?) The white hat is the official in charge of the game, all aspects of the game. he should be the one making the decisions on replays, not some unseen eye in the sky who has no one to answer to and slink out of the building unseen if he screws up too badly. The scoring and turnover replays shouldn't be automatic in the NFL. There should be a booth official who looks them over during the break in action (or after a score just delay start of the PAT play clock for 30 seconds) and decides if the referee should take a look at it. But it shouldn't be a booth official who makes any final decisions.

#4 of 27 OFFLINE   Chip_HT

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Posted March 29 2012 - 11:39 AM

First, a comment on the OT rules. While the idea is good in theory, it takes too long to explain. I mean, it took longer for the ref to explain the OT rules than OT itself lasted in the Broncos-Steelers playoff game. The NFL seemed so concerned with giving each team a chance in OT, except when the first team scores a TD. I think they probably just need to go to college OT rules. Second, regarding the replays and officials -- why shouldn't someone other than the ref be reviewing? As a fan, I'm seeing the ref blow a call. And then he goes to review it? But then again, the Sugar Bowl had the worst case of a booth review ever. VT had a TD in overtime, which would have won the game, and everyone in the world except for the replay official called it a touchdown.

#5 of 27 OFFLINE   Scott Merryfield

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Posted March 29 2012 - 12:25 PM

First, a comment on the OT rules. While the idea is good in theory, it takes too long to explain. I mean, it took longer for the ref to explain the OT rules than OT itself lasted in the Broncos-Steelers playoff game. The NFL seemed so concerned with giving each team a chance in OT, except when the first team scores a TD. I think they probably just need to go to college OT rules. Second, regarding the replays and officials -- why shouldn't someone other than the ref be reviewing? As a fan, I'm seeing the ref blow a call. And then he goes to review it? But then again, the Sugar Bowl had the worst case of a booth review ever. VT had a TD in overtime, which would have won the game, and everyone in the world except for the replay official called it a touchdown.
I disagree regarding using the college OT system. I hate that system. It removes too many core parts of the game -- field position, special teams, and clock management. It's not much better than the NHL's regular season method of using penalty shots. It may be entertaining, but it is not football (or hockey, in the NHL's case). With the kickoff being moved back and many more touchbacks occuring, the current playoff OT system works well. Teams are usually starting from their own 20 yard line, so if the defense cannot prevent the offense from driving 80 yards for a TD, they do not deserve to win. If the starting position is better than the 20, it's because the kicking team's special teams failed, and once again they deserve to lose. As for not getting the review called correctly, we see that today in both the NFL and NCAA systems. There will be plays reviewed in each that almost everyone watching at home agrees should be called one way, and the review official (whether in the boot or on the field) calls the opposite way. That is never going to change. Joe, I do agree there are times that the college replay system takes too long, but I attribute that more to incompetent officials than the system itself. We see officials in the NFL take too long to make some decisions, too, but just not as often, since the caliber of officiating is generally better in the NFL than in the NCAA. We'll have to agree to disagree on the booth vs. field review. I think a booth review system using well-trained NFL officials can work efficiently.

#6 of 27 OFFLINE   nolesrule

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Posted March 29 2012 - 01:07 PM

Well-trained NFL officials should be on the field. The non well-trained officials shouldn't have a job. :-)

#7 of 27 OFFLINE   Johnny Angell

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Posted April 27 2012 - 09:27 AM

So, no one has any comments on the draft so far? I know they say it every draft, bit Melvin Ingram wasn't supposed to there at number 18. I'm hopeful this guy is an impact player right away for the chargers. Is Chris Berman a charger fan? Seems like when I'm watching him on the ESPN Sunday morning pre-game show, he's always expressing disappointment in the bolts while everyone else is "meh, what did you expect?". Than on the draft show he starts talking about what would happen if the past 3 and new number 1 picks started to produce as if they were number 1's. It's be like 4 number 1's in one year. Yeah, right.
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#8 of 27 OFFLINE   Scott Merryfield

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Posted April 27 2012 - 10:43 AM

The Lions pick, offensive tackle Riley Reiff from Iowa, wasn't supposed to be there, either. However, they may have passed on a special player in OG DeCastro, who went to Pittsburgh with the next pick. I saw someone compare it to a previous Lions draft, saying they passed on the next Steve Hutchinson to take the next Jeff Backus. I think every team uses that same cliche -- "we had him rated much higher, and didn't expect him to be there when we picked". The Colts may have said that about Andrew Luck at #1 overall. :laugh: However, I know that Ingram was rated pretty high, and saw him going top 10 in some mock drafts, Johnny. The teams that seem to be getting criticized most for their first round moves are Cleveland, Miami and Seattle. I do think the Browns and Dolphins both reached for their QB's, and I am not a fan of Cleveland trading up to take a running back when they are in full rebuilding mode. Running backs have such a short shelf life in the NFL, by the time the Browns get good (if they ever do), Richardson will have used up over half his career. I think the Vikings played a nice poker game with the Browns to get them to move up a spot. Detroit still desperately needs a cornerback. We will see if they take a chance on Jenkins in the 2nd round -- player with a lot of talent, but with big question marks off the field.

#9 of 27 OFFLINE   dmiller68

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Posted April 27 2012 - 08:45 PM

Well if they are questioning Seattle's first round I'm totally sure they are questioning the 3rd round... A QB really??? Out of everyone that was still on the board that was the best pick...
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#10 of 27 OFFLINE   Scott Merryfield

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Posted April 28 2012 - 04:00 AM

The Lions had a head-scratcher in the 2nd round, taking a small wide receiver with an injured ACL. Ryan Broyles may not be ready to play until half the season was over, and Detroit already has a young slot receiver in Titus Young. While I liked what I saw of Russell Wilson when he played at Wisconsin, he is very short for an NFL QB, so I understand the skepticism on the Seattle pick, David. It's even more curious since they signed Matt Flynn in the offseason. The Steelers have really bolstered their weakest area, following up a great OG prospect in the first round and a solid OT prospect in the 2nd -- Adams from OSU. When you figure in center Pouncey, who they took a couple of years ago, Pittsburgh's offensive line may have just went from old and broken-down to young and solid in a little over 24 hours.

#11 of 27 OFFLINE   Jeremiah

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Posted April 28 2012 - 11:17 AM

I thought the Bronco's had a terrible draft. They traded down twice out of the 1st RD and all they got was a 4th round pick(101st). The Ravens moved back only 4-5 spots once and they got the 97th pick. The Bronco's got owned. Drafting the QB in RD 2 was just an awful awful pick, and since less than 15% of 2nd RD QB's have amounted to anything in the last 20 years, it looks like a total waste of a pick. Not only that but they expect him to sit for 3 years and then get 1 year playing and the Bronco's will have to tag him and pay him big money if they want to keep him. Just an awful pick. The RB they grabbed from what I have read will not be an everydown back, about a 100 or so carries a year guy. DT QB RB CB C DL
I have seen Larry David in action, and that man is an animal, and he has to be stopped.

#12 of 27 OFFLINE   Scott Merryfield

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Posted May 02 2012 - 08:17 AM

The Lions ended up going for quantity instead of quality at their position of greatest need -- cornerback. In the 3rd round, they took an undersized CB from a small school who cannot play man-to-man defense. They then traded up in the 5th round to take a player from Albion College! Did they really think they needed to trade up to take this guy from a school that nobody outside of Michigan has probably ever heard of? They followed that up with another CB in the 6th round. Their secondary may actually be worse than last year... if that is possible. They also failed to draft any running back -- a position they currently have filled with a bunch of walking wounded players. Jahvid Best is still not cleared for contact due to concussions (and is one more concussion away from ending his career), Mikael LeShoure is still recovering from an Achilles tear (a very devastating injury that many never recover from), and Kevin Smith consistently gets injured and is an average talent as best anyway. The Redskins also made a very odd pick, taking Michigan State QB Kirk Cousins in the 4th round (their third pick). While he may have been value, they had just spent a boatload to trade up for a Heisman Trophy QB. This is the first time since 1971 that an NFL team used two of its top 3 draft picks on quarterbacks.

#13 of 27 OFFLINE   Scott Merryfield

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Posted May 02 2012 - 12:31 PM

Junior Seau was found dead in his home today, apparently committing suicide. This is very sad. He was a great linebacker, and leaves behind three children.

#14 of 27 OFFLINE   Ockeghem

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Posted May 02 2012 - 01:42 PM

Junior Seau was found dead in his home today, apparently committing suicide. This is very sad. He was a great linebacker, and leaves behind three children.
Scott, I heard about this on my way home from work today. So tragic. One of the reports I heard was allegedly connecting his suicide to the concussion symptoms he had had for years.

#15 of 27 OFFLINE   Johnny Angell

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Posted May 02 2012 - 01:56 PM

Scott, I heard about this on my way home from work today. So tragic. One of the reports I heard was allegedly connecting his suicide to the concussion symptoms he had had for years.
That was my first thought, was this related to football? I had not heard he was having concussion symptoms. Of the 1994 team that went to the SB, 8 have died. Goodbye, Junior.
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#16 of 27 OFFLINE   Jeremiah

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Posted May 02 2012 - 06:36 PM

Problem is nobody knows what Seau was going through because he never told anyone anything, he never asked for help when he was introuble and players and friends said when he played he had medical equipment in his room so people wouldn't see or didn't know when he was getting treatment. It's stunning how that many people have died from such a recent Superbowl team.
I have seen Larry David in action, and that man is an animal, and he has to be stopped.

#17 of 27 OFFLINE   Johnny Angell

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Posted May 02 2012 - 07:08 PM

What's significant is that he shot himself in the chest. That is an unusual form of suicide, rare, in fact. It's as if he were preserving his brain for study. This didn't occur to me until I saw commentators mentioning it. I had a friend, not a close friend, but a friend. I had no idea he suffered from depression until he hung himself. I think football has to change. I don't think we're that far off before it's commonly accepted that players are routinely suffering injuries to their brains. Within 10 years, I think it will be accepted fact.
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#18 of 27 OFFLINE   Jim Mcc

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Posted May 02 2012 - 11:32 PM

Former Chicago Bear Dave Duerson killed himself the same way. And it was to preserve his brain for study.

#19 of 27 OFFLINE   Johnny Angell

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Posted May 08 2012 - 11:42 AM

Here's a quote from a Fox News article outlining how the 8 Chargers from 1994 have died:
Reuben Davis, the defensive tackle for the 1994 San Diego Chargers, said he feared "we might be cursed" after Junior Seau became the eighth member of the AFC Championship winning team to die. Seau's shocking suicide Wednesday continued a tragic trend among the lineup, dating back to linebacker David Grigg's fatal car wreck in 1995, a few months after the team's Super Bowl loss to the San Francisco 49ers. Running back Rodney Culver died a year later in a ValuJet airplane crash in Florida, before linebacker Doug Miller was struck twice by lightning during a camping trip in Colorado in 1998. A decade passed before center Curtis Whitley died of an apparently accidental drug overdose in 2008, the same year that defensive end Chris Mims succumbed to an enlarged heart. Defensive lineman Shawn Lee and linebacker Lew Bush both died last year from heart attacks, before Seau took his own life with a gunshot wound to the chest. All of the players died before reaching 45.
A Charger was struck twice by lighting? I'm thinking the Universe really has it in for you when that happens.
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#20 of 27 OFFLINE   Ockeghem

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Posted May 08 2012 - 11:59 AM

Here's a quote from a Fox News article outlining how the 8 Chargers from 1994 have died:
Reuben Davis, the defensive tackle for the 1994 San Diego Chargers, said he feared "we might be cursed" after Junior Seau became the eighth member of the AFC Championship winning team to die. Seau's shocking suicide Wednesday continued a tragic trend among the lineup, dating back to linebacker David Grigg's fatal car wreck in 1995, a few months after the team's Super Bowl loss to the San Francisco 49ers. Running back Rodney Culver died a year later in a ValuJet airplane crash in Florida, before linebacker Doug Miller was struck twice by lightning during a camping trip in Colorado in 1998. A decade passed before center Curtis Whitley died of an apparently accidental drug overdose in 2008, the same year that defensive end Chris Mims succumbed to an enlarged heart. Defensive lineman Shawn Lee and linebacker Lew Bush both died last year from heart attacks, before Seau took his own life with a gunshot wound to the chest. All of the players died before reaching 45.
A Charger was struck twice by lighting? I'm thinking the Universe really has it in for you when that happens.
Johnny, I know, odd to say the least. I heard about some of these occurrences on the radio right after Seau's suicide.




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