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Breaking Bad - Season 5 (AMC)


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#481 of 969 OFFLINE   Charlie Campisi

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Posted September 03 2013 - 05:21 AM

Hank is a career DEA agent. Jesse is a career meth dealer. It's completely appropriate for Hank to have no qualms about the danger to Jesse. It may not fit with Hank and Jr. being the only two "clean" characters in the show, but it does fit with how the world works.



#482 of 969 ONLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted September 03 2013 - 05:32 AM

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:'Merriweather Sans', sans-serif;background-color:rgb(242,242,242);]Hank has seen and occasionally been a direct victim of the destruction that Walt, Jesse, Gus, Mike, Todd, Lydia, etc. have done and so I think it's nearly impossible for him to have much sympathy or concern for Jesse[/color]

 

 

 

Hank is a career DEA agent. Jesse is a career meth dealer. It's completely appropriate for Hank to have no qualms about the danger to Jesse.

 

I  have to agree with this.  

 

At first, when Hank made the reference that he didn't care if Jesse

got killed in the plaza meeting, I thought that it was a very callous 

statement.

 

However, thinking about it more, the facts are what they are.  Walt

and Jesse are two very dangerous men who have done incredible harm

to others including Hank.  Jesse may be the lesser of the two evils but he

was directly involved in most of Walt's shenanigans.

 

I think we care about Jesse and Walt because as television viewers we

have no stake in any of this and for many of this show's seasons, they

have become somewhat heroes to us.   But from the perspective of the 

characters themselves,  Hank is a DEA agent who has been through a lot

of shit and wants nothing more than to nail Walt and Jesse, dead or alive.


 

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#483 of 969 ONLINE   SamT

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Posted September 03 2013 - 05:53 AM

I think one thing that makes me still like Jesse while disliking Walt is that Jesse actually feels pretty bad for a lot of the shit that they've done and Walt doesn't care at all.

 

I do like Jesse and of all the bad people of the show, I think he is the one that has to survive at the end. He has shown remorse. If Walt is Mr. Chips to Scarface, Jesse is Scarface to Mr. Chips.


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#484 of 969 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

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Posted September 03 2013 - 06:01 AM

Jesse shot a guy in the face.  He's not a 'lesser' evil in any sense.



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#485 of 969 ONLINE   SamT

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Posted September 03 2013 - 06:49 AM

He is a lesser evil than Walt. Jesse has changed and has shown remorse. That shooting someone in the face, you can say he was under Walt's influence. It was also a quick, time based decision. People do change and regret things they have done in the past.


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#486 of 969 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted September 03 2013 - 07:04 AM

Jesse shot a guy in the face.  He's not a 'lesser' evil in any sense.

Not that shooting Gale was right but he and Walt were in a situation where if Gale was alive, Gus would kill both Walt and Jesse. Grim as it sounds, I think most people would make the same choice if they were in the same situation (the difference is that most people wouldn't be in that situation).



#487 of 969 OFFLINE   Quentin

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Posted September 03 2013 - 10:23 AM

Hank WAS a DEA agent.  He is way off the reservation now and acting completely on his own with a vengeance motivation that is unlikely to let him see straight.

 

I don't know what he told his partner or how he explained it, but taping a 'confession' in his house and having Jesse stay there?  Without booking him, reading his rights to him, or letting anyone in the DEA know about it?  Nothing they've said or done to this point is remotely admissable in a court of law.  Hank is not building a case.  He's trying to do two things: figure out a way to protect him from Walt's video confession (hmmmm...maybe taping Jesse inside your own house is not a great way to prove you aren't the manipulative mastermind behind the operation), and ultimately kill Walt.  If he were thinking about bringing him to justice he wouldn't be doing this on his own.  Nope, Hank has gone off the deep end and he is now the personification of Marie's vengeful thoughts.

 

I always knew this show would be "Mr. Chips becomes Scarface", and we all know how Tony Montana flames out.  But, this episode pretty much shows us that EVERY major character is going to get into the mud and drop into the abyss along with Walt! Brilliant!!  Skylar wants to kill Jesse - "what's one more?" (she's right).  I love how she's always been so emotional through the series and now she has become as cold and calculating as...well, as Walt!  Now, Walt is the emotional one!  And, what does Walt do?  He brings in the Nazis!  Smart move, dude.  Hank is completely operating on his own and only seeing red - he's ready to flame out big time.  Marie is contemplating killing Walt with poison - who wants to bet she pulls a Shakesepearian tragedy move and ends up poisoning Skylar?  And, Jesse has gone off the deep end with the tried and true "I'm coming for you" line. 

 

Wow.  Epic group flameout coming in 4, 3, 2, 1...

 

And, they all fall off the morality cliff together.



#488 of 969 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted September 03 2013 - 10:50 AM

Hank WAS a DEA agent.  He is way off the reservation now and acting completely on his own with a vengeance motivation that is unlikely to let him see straight.

 

I don't know what he told his partner or how he explained it, but taping a 'confession' in his house and having Jesse stay there?  Without booking him, reading his rights to him, or letting anyone in the DEA know about it?  Nothing they've said or done to this point is remotely admissable in a court of law.  Hank is not building a case.  He's trying to do two things: figure out a way to protect him from Walt's video confession (hmmmm...maybe taping Jesse inside your own house is not a great way to prove you aren't the manipulative mastermind behind the operation), and ultimately kill Walt.  If he were thinking about bringing him to justice he wouldn't be doing this on his own.  Nope, Hank has gone off the deep end and he is now the personification of Marie's vengeful thoughts.

I definitely don't think Hank was planning on killing Walt since Walt's confession video would make him the only suspect and also implicate him in the meth ring. Hank and Gomez didn't specifically say it but I just assumed that they're trying to gather something to show the DEA that Walt's 'confession' is bogus. Once they get Hank out from under that, they'll go to the DEA with all the evidence & testimony and then the legal process will begin. That way, Hank will only lose his job rather than go to prison as the mastermind of a meth cartel.


Edited by TravisR, September 03 2013 - 10:56 AM.


#489 of 969 OFFLINE   Quentin

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Posted September 03 2013 - 12:01 PM

I definitely don't think Hank was planning on killing Walt since Walt's confession video would make him the only suspect and also implicate him in the meth ring. Hank and Gomez didn't specifically say it but I just assumed that they're trying to gather something to show the DEA that Walt's 'confession' is bogus. Once they get Hank out from under that, they'll go to the DEA with all the evidence & testimony and then the legal process will begin. That way, Hank will only lose his job rather than go to prison as the mastermind of a meth cartel.

 

I don't think there's much of a chance for Hank to go to prison as the mastermind of a meth cartel.  There is no proof.  Just like there is no proof on Walt.

 

If his plan is to protect himself from the video confession...well, I already said holding Jesse in his house and videotaping it there is NOT a good plan.  It makes him look even more manipulative/controlling/etc.

 

There is no getting out from under that video confession without proof.  Like Jesse said - he is retired.  You're not going to get any proof on him now.  And, if Walt had somehow lost his brain and confessed to doing something to Jesse while Jesse wore the wire?  It doesn't get them squat because it's inadmissable and it is pretty much privately manufactured evidence produced by the guy accused of running things in Walt's video.

 

So, either Hank is not thinking things through or he is hoping Walt and Jesse kill each other and/or Walt tries to run or do something stupid that gives Hank the opportunity/excuse to kill him.

 

Either way, law and morality are no longer a part of the plan.  Hank is only seeing vengeance now and he will go down with everyone else.



#490 of 969 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted September 03 2013 - 12:22 PM

I don't think there's much of a chance for Hank to go to prison as the mastermind of a meth cartel.  There is no proof.  Just like there is no proof on Walt.

Between Walt's confession and if he was murdered, I think there's a good chance that Hank would go to jail. They don't need to catch Hank standing in a meth lab, the video from "Walter White, Cancer Saint" (copyright Saul Goodman) saying that Hank was the mastermind would be damning evidence in court.

 

 

There is no getting out from under that video confession without proof.

It depends on what Jesse and Walt might have talked about when they met. There's things that Walt would not say if he was just an unwilling pawn in Hank's plan. In court, Walt would still use "Hank did it" as his defense (and it might even work) but the tape- with the right things on it- would let the DEA and prosecutors know that Walt was the real mastermind.



#491 of 969 OFFLINE   Dheiner

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Posted September 03 2013 - 01:31 PM

Hank did not "take Jesse in" because, as Jesse pointed out, in custody he would be dead in a few hours.  We don't know what Hank and Gomez have done, so far, as far as reading him his rights.  We only know what has been shown.  

 

I still think Hank could, and should come out of this ok.  IT will be tricky, but do-able.


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#492 of 969 OFFLINE   shazzerman

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Posted September 03 2013 - 02:38 PM

I don't think Walt is sending the Todd gang after Jesse. Right after that phone call from Jesse - "I'm gonna get you where you live" - Walt looks momentarily baffled before getting that look on his face... He has worked out (as only he can) that Hank has got to Jesse. 



#493 of 969 OFFLINE   Charlie Campisi

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Posted September 04 2013 - 10:15 AM

Hank WAS a DEA agent.  He is way off the reservation now and acting completely on his own with a vengeance motivation that is unlikely to let him see straight.

 

I don't know what he told his partner or how he explained it, but taping a 'confession' in his house and having Jesse stay there?  Without booking him, reading his rights to him, or letting anyone in the DEA know about it?  Nothing they've said or done to this point is remotely admissable in a court of law.  Hank is not building a case.

 

I disagree with some of the facts you used to support the conclusion that Hank is off the reservation. I agree that what Hank is doing is not by the DEA book, but he's clinging to the faint hope that he can save his career, or at least go out while bringing Walt to justice. He wants Walt. Some of that is vengeance, but I take from what I've seen that he wants Walt to be charged with his crimes. It makes sense that a DEA agent would equate vengeance with arresting Walt for his crimes.

 

The confession is not admissible, but not because Jesse wasn't read his rights. It's inadmissible because Jesse is alive and well. You can't use a videotape as evidence in most circumstances if the witness is available to testify live and be cross examined. The bigger point is that it has nothing to do with Jesse being read his rights. Jesse isn't under arrest. He doesn't have to be read his rights until he's under arrest. Right now he's merely a cooperating witness. Hank and Gomez are free to use him in this manner while he's cooperating, though I suspect the DEA might have issues with them not running their plan up the chain of command to bring in a murdering meth dealer as a cooperating witness without approval.

 

The interesting legal issue for me is what will Hank and Gomey do now that Jesse is breaking from the plan? Do they threaten to arrest him if he doesn't play by their rules? Or do they go with his idea as an alternative to bringing down Walt?

 

Just a credit to this show that it can set up so many horrific possibilities.


Edited by Charlie Campisi, September 04 2013 - 10:16 AM.


#494 of 969 ONLINE   SamT

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Posted September 04 2013 - 10:17 AM

Posted Image

 

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#495 of 969 OFFLINE   Quentin

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Posted September 04 2013 - 10:24 AM

I disagree with some of the facts you used to support the conclusion that Hank is off the reservation. I agree that what Hank is doing is not by the DEA book, but he's clinging to the faint hope that he can save his career, or at least go out while bringing Walt to justice. He wants Walt. Some of that is vengeance, but I take from what I've seen that he wants Walt to be charged with his crimes. It makes sense that a DEA agent would equate vengeance with arresting Walt for his crimes.

 

The confession is not admissible, but not because Jesse wasn't read his rights. It's inadmissible because Jesse is alive and well. You can't use a videotape as evidence in most circumstances if the witness is available to testify live and be cross examined. The bigger point is that it has nothing to do with Jesse being read his rights. Jesse isn't under arrest. He doesn't have to be read his rights until he's under arrest. Right now he's merely a cooperating witness. Hank and Gomez are free to use him in this manner while he's cooperating, though I suspect the DEA might have issues with them not running their plan up the chain of command to bring in a murdering meth dealer as a cooperating witness without approval.

 

The interesting legal issue for me is what will Hank and Gomey do now that Jesse is breaking from the plan? Do they threaten to arrest him if he doesn't play by their rules? Or do they go with his idea as an alternative to bringing down Walt?

 

Just a credit to this show that it can set up so many horrific possibilities.

 

I do agree that the truly most interesting thing now is how far will Hank go now that Jesse has suggested they can take Walt down together.

 

But, while you're right about the videotape confession not being useful due to Jesse being alive (if he ends up dead, it can't be used either since it is being taken illegally), what I'm saying is that NOTHING they are doing right now is legal.  Jesse isn't under arrest?  That's not correct.  He has been arrested, and is out on bail after contacting his lawyer.  He can't then be picked up and treated as a cooperative witness - by a guy who questioned him without witnesses, and who also beat him at one time - without any record and without his lawyer present.  This is all quite illegal and on the down low.  And, all of the 'fruit' that comes from it would be considered 'poisoned' and inadmissable.

 

Hank knows this.  Gomez SHOULD know it.  And, once (if?) they join Jesse to take Walt down they will cross from being inadmissable to being criminal.



#496 of 969 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

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Posted September 04 2013 - 12:39 PM

Terrific points all around.  I am hoping for a "Penn and Teller Get Killed" finale.  But Junior gets the cash.



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#497 of 969 OFFLINE   Greg_S_H

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Posted September 04 2013 - 01:32 PM

This is Junior in the final scene. 

 

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#498 of 969 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted September 04 2013 - 01:49 PM

Maybe it's because I'm not even bothering to guess about the ending (I'll just be wrong) but I'm most curious as to what has happened to everyone during the flashforwards. How did Walt get to New Hampshire? Did his family come along? How much of their 'exit' did he explain to Junior? What happened to Jesse and Hank? Who is Walt going back after? Why he's taking the risk? I'm assuming that those answers will start coming in the next 2 or 3 weeks.


Edited by TravisR, September 04 2013 - 01:49 PM.


#499 of 969 OFFLINE   Hanson

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Posted September 05 2013 - 06:15 AM

It would totally suck if they didn't!

#500 of 969 OFFLINE   Steve Tannehill

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Posted September 05 2013 - 07:55 AM

 

Great article in the new Entertainment Weekly.  The iPad version even includes video of the photo shoot, which is fun.






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