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A few words about...™ Cleopatra (UK) -- in Blu-ray

A Few Words About

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#41 of 81 NY2LA

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Posted April 16 2012 - 10:46 AM

Does the new disc finally use chapter stops for that great 2 hour "Film That Changed Hollywood" doc?

#42 of 81 Andrew Budgell

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Posted April 16 2012 - 10:58 AM

That's fantastic, Andrew. I wasn't aware of any new material turning up and had been quite annoyed at TCF's cavalier attitude to the material. I wonder if the stuff didn't survive for the same reason as the Superman films' production materials - the squirrel mindset of the vault managers at Pinewood.

I believe what's turned up was found in the 90s when Fox conducted an international search. Pinewood isn't really responsible for the deleted scenes as the film shut down for a time while Elizabeth Taylor convalesced following her tracheotomy, and then picked back up again in Rome at Cinecitta. But I know what you mean about the mindset that this wasn't worth anything...it makes me feel sick!

#43 of 81 Andrew Budgell

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Posted April 16 2012 - 10:59 AM

Isn't all of this in the 5 STAR DVD Set?

No, it's only glimpsed momentarily in the documentary. I'd appreciate being able to watch the few scenes that turned up in the 1990s, like the encampment scene mentioned earlier, in full.

#44 of 81 GerardoHP

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Posted September 06 2012 - 09:01 PM

The American Cinematheque, in a relatively new 70mm print that takes your breath away. It'll be back.
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#45 of 81 Techman707

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Posted March 12 2013 - 06:36 AM

There's a short documentary on the disc about Twentieth Century Fox having all the vault materials for Cleopatra and a load of other movies trashed in the 1970s to save storage costs. Unless one of the principal actors or technicians salted something away in the garage, the impression I got was the original cut, the deleted scenes and all those kinds of materials wound up in a dumpster.

There were two versions of Cleopatra, a U..S. version and a European version. The European had nude scenes of Elizabeth Taylor that, I guess, were considered too “hot” for the prudish American audiences at that time. I assume that this Blu-ray is the American cut. Does anyone know which cut this is?

#46 of 81 Billy Batson

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Posted March 12 2013 - 07:37 AM

There were two versions of Cleopatra, a U..S. version and a European version. The European had nude scenes of Elizabeth Taylor that, I guess, were considered too “hot” for the prudish American audiences at that time. I assume that this Blu-ray is the American cut. Does anyone know which cut this is?

I'd guess that the US Blu will exactly the same discs that have been released in Europe. And my idea of a nude scene would involve seeing at least a breast or a bit of bum or both (we europians are hard to please!) & I don't think any such scene exists. For all the money she got paid it wouldn't have hurt her to get her kit off, but I don't think she did.

#47 of 81 Techman707

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Posted March 12 2013 - 08:19 AM

I'd guess that the US Blu will exactly the same discs that have been released in Europe. And my idea of a nude scene would involve seeing at least a breast or a bit of bum or both (we europians are hard to please!) & I don't think any such scene exists. For all the money she got paid it wouldn't have hurt her to get her kit off, but I don't think she did.

I had a 35mm 4 track mag print that was the European version. I gave it to a friend of mine (which he still has) when I moved a number of years ago since, like ALL Eastman prints, it was beginning to turn magenta. However, at that time, we ran the print to check the mag sound. I distantly remember Elizabeth Taylor lying there with her bare ass while it was being fanned. At another point her breasts are also shown. I know that in a 16mm U.S. version print, those scenes aren't there. Today, they would probably run those scenes on TV.:)

#48 of 81 Robert Harris

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Posted March 12 2013 - 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Techman707 


I had a 35mm 4 track mag print that was the European version. I gave it to a friend of mine (which he still has) when I moved a number of years ago since, like ALL Eastman prints, it was beginning to turn magenta. However, at that time, we ran the print to check the mag sound. I distantly remember Elizabeth Taylor lying there with her bare ass while it was being fanned. At another point her breasts are also shown. I know that in a 16mm U.S. version print, those scenes aren't there. Today, they would probably run those scenes on TV.Posted Image

Interesting that an Eastman mag print existed.  I've only seen dye transfer four-track.


RAH


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#49 of 81 Techman707

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Posted March 12 2013 - 08:35 AM

Interesting that an Eastman mag print existed.  I've only seen dye transfer four-track. RAH

That's strange, since I've never seen any dye prints.

#50 of 81 Robert Harris

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Posted March 12 2013 - 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Techman707 


That's strange, since I've never seen any dye prints.

Possibly only struck at Tech London, and magnificent.


RAH


"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#51 of 81 WadeM

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Posted March 12 2013 - 09:12 AM

There were two versions of Cleopatra, a U..S. version and a European version. The European had nude scenes of Elizabeth Taylor that, I guess, were considered too “hot” for the prudish American audiences at that time. I assume that this Blu-ray is the American cut. Does anyone know which cut this is?

Wow. I'd love to see a European version. Didn't know about this.

#52 of 81 Johnny Angell

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Posted March 12 2013 - 10:49 AM

That's strange, since I've never seen any dye prints.

Interesting that an Eastman mag print existed.  I've only seen dye transfer four-track. RAH

You guys are real film pros. You take the discussion from T&A to film prints. :) I know I saw Cleopatra theatrically, first run and the Liz nudity was limited. She was laying on her stomach with a towel strategically draped showing her bare side and some tush. The nudity cited above wouldn't have been allowed in the US back then, IMHO. I never read anything about a racier European version. That would be some lost footage.
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#53 of 81 Robert Harris

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Posted March 12 2013 - 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Johnny Angell 



You guys are real film pros. You take the discussion from T&A to film prints. Posted Image

I know I saw Cleopatra theatrically, first run and the Liz nudity was limited. She was laying on her stomach with a towel strategically draped showing her bare side and some tush. The nudity cited above wouldn't have been allowed in the US back then, IMHO. I never read anything about a racier European version.

That would be some lost footage.

Unless the original negative has always been printed auto-select.


RAH


"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#54 of 81 Douglas R

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Posted March 12 2013 - 09:34 PM

You guys are real film pros. You take the discussion from T&A to film prints. :) I know I saw Cleopatra theatrically, first run and the Liz nudity was limited. She was laying on her stomach with a towel strategically draped showing her bare side and some tush. The nudity cited above wouldn't have been allowed in the US back then, IMHO. I never read anything about a racier European version. That would be some lost footage.

Sorry to be pedantic but it's "lying" not "laying" :) And there was not, of course, any such racier European version. Indeed, the scene described above (which is on the DVD), whilst included in the UK 70mm roadshow prints was cut for the UK 35mm general release, along with many other scenes.

#55 of 81 Johnny Angell

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Posted March 13 2013 - 01:43 AM

Sorry to be pedantic but it's "lying" not "laying" :) And there was not, of course, any such racier European version. Indeed, the scene described above (which is on the DVD), whilst included in the UK 70mm roadshow prints was cut for the UK 35mm general release, along with many other scenes.

When you refer to the scene above, are you referring to what I wrote? That would mean the US release was too racy for European censors and make it very unlikely the "nuder" scenes described earlier ever existed.
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#56 of 81 Mark Collins

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Posted March 13 2013 - 02:19 AM

I can remember as a kid my Aunt coming home after viewing the movie and said that Liz had a nude scene in the movie and kids could not see the movie. I believe she stated that she was topless in the film during a bathing scene. I am quite sure that is what my Aunt said to me and my cousin. In fact I am almost postive because the memory stayed with me all these years. My Aunt thougnt it was very funny and enjoyed it. Remember Marliyn had done a nude scene in Somethings Got To Give 1962 and that could be why Liz did it.

#57 of 81 benbess

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Posted March 13 2013 - 02:29 AM

Those scenes quite possibly existed, but fox threw out almost all of the "extra" footage and negatives back in the 70s. It's gone. Maybe someone has a faded print, but it seems highly unlikely that this different cut will ever make it to blu-ray.

#58 of 81 Mark Collins

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Posted March 13 2013 - 02:45 AM

I still can remember all the hype when the film came to town. I can see my Aunt right now coming into our house and telling us all about the nude scene. Kids as we were asked can we go see the film? We received a firm no and that it was only for adults to view! I can remember her stating that too. No rating system in 1963 so I wonder who said adults only? I know she said it was topless bathing scene. I have always expected to see this in the movie but have never owned the film! I have always wanted to but never for some reason bought it. I sure have it on pre order now. I always blamed the movie for Marliyn's death. I felt Fox destroyed one of their best stars why Liz got away with murder in Rome. So i always refused to buy the film. I know that sounds crazy but I am a crazy guy who has always been in love with Marilyn from the momemt i saw her on the late late show as a kid. I even remember when she died.

#59 of 81 Techman707

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Posted March 13 2013 - 03:09 AM

There's no doubt in my mind that the print to which I'm referring to is in fact a "European Version" becaue it was even scratched into the leaders by the lab. Although today the print must be redder than a communist during the cold war, I'm sure my friend must still has the print and I'm going to contact him about it.

#60 of 81 Mark Collins

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Posted March 13 2013 - 03:19 AM

I had a 35mm 4 track mag print that was the European version. I gave it to a friend of mine (which he still has) when I moved a number of years ago since, like ALL Eastman prints, it was beginning to turn magenta. However, at that time, we ran the print to check the mag sound. I distantly remember Elizabeth Taylor lying there with her bare ass while it was being fanned. At another point her breasts are also shown. I know that in a 16mm U.S. version print, those scenes aren't there. Today, they would probably run those scenes on TV.:)

Yes what you describe here is what my Aunt saw! I just reread your post.





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