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Expecting More


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20 replies to this topic

#1 of 21 snake

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Posted February 17 2012 - 04:04 AM

:confused: First let me tell you what I've got and go from there. Got 2 Polk RTi12s and a yamaha rx-v371 receiver. Had them for a few months now and I must say music, movies, and games all come through crystal clear. My wonder is that it does not appear to have the bass that it ought to. Can it get loud and jam??? Yes, but it just doesn't boom like I think it should. Bass is turned all the way up..... Not sure what else to do really. I'm not trying to shake the foundation of my house but w/ those 3 woofers in each speaker I guess I expected a LOT more bass response. Ideas??

#2 of 21 snake

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Posted February 17 2012 - 04:12 AM

Oh, they are also bi-wired btw. Not sure if it actually has any advantage but I had the wire and did it anyway.

#3 of 21 Al.Anderson

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Posted February 17 2012 - 04:52 AM

The obvious advice would be to add a subwoofer. Is there a reason you didn't go with one? Also, make sure your speakers are set to large. With no sub I doubt this is the problem, but it can't hurt to check.

#4 of 21 snake

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Posted February 17 2012 - 05:51 AM

I just have not purchased one yet. It is in the plan though. I'm slowly building up a system as $$ comes available. I just made the assumption that these towers could slam on their own and lack of a sub wouldn't be missed greatly until one is purchased.

#5 of 21 gene c

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Posted February 17 2012 - 10:06 AM

That's Yamaha's entry level receiver and regardless of what the specs say it just might not have the umph! to drive those speakers for the bass response you're looking for. Also, speaker positioning/room acoustics is critical to bass output. I've had speakers that didn't sound deep at all from the listening position, but when I walked up closer to them I could here them thump pretty good. Dump the bi-wiring thing. Make sure you have a good connection with the bridge between the terminals.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#6 of 21 snake

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Posted February 17 2012 - 02:36 PM

Thanks man but already done.... This just may be all it'll do.

#7 of 21 TheGary

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Posted February 18 2012 - 06:24 AM

Just one question.. Why did you buy the cheapest receiver available on the market to supplement your very nice speakers..?

#8 of 21 snake

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Posted February 18 2012 - 11:45 AM

What can i say man? Bought some beast speakers and then the $$ was short for a receiver. It can always be upgraded though :D

#9 of 21 JohnRice

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Posted February 18 2012 - 01:17 PM

If the speakers are set up right, you have the bass up "all the way" and it doesn't sound intolerably muddy and almost unlistenable, something is seriously wrong. Either the setup or your hearing. Cranking the bass will not give deeper bass, just drive what bass you have into distortion and exhaust the amp, which is made worse with bi-amping. You need a sub and understanding neighbors. Gene, I see you've joined me in the anti bi-amp school. Nobody listens, no matter how hard you try.

The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#10 of 21 gene c

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Posted February 18 2012 - 04:00 PM

If the speakers are set up right, you have the bass up "all the way" and it doesn't sound intolerably muddy and almost unlistenable, something is seriously wrong. Either the setup or your hearing. Cranking the bass will not give deeper bass, just drive what bass you have into distortion and exhaust the amp, which is made worse with bi-amping. You need a sub and understanding neighbors. Gene, I see you've joined me in the anti bi-amp school. Nobody listens, no matter how hard you try.

I think most all of the active members around here have learned that lesson. But sometimes people new to the hobby have to find things out for themselves. And speaker and receiver manufactures aren't helping much by adding extra sets of binding posts and menu settings to encourage it. But we still mention it because it's the right thing to do. Like telling a 22 year old to quit smoking and put the money into a 401k. You know they're not going to do it but you have to keep trying anyway :( . Bi-amping off a receiver usually does more harm than good. Bi-wiring is just a waste of time and speaker wire. And put out that cigarette and make an appointment with HR :) .
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#11 of 21 snake

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Posted February 19 2012 - 01:35 AM

Well I took the bi-wires loose and reinstalled the gold binding on the posts. Did it to one speaker just to hear the difference and of course there was no difference. Well, I wish there was something else that we're missing but I suppose I'm gonna just have to break down and buy a sub.. or upgrade the receiver. Can you fellas give some economical recommendations in that area??

#12 of 21 JohnRice

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Posted February 19 2012 - 01:48 AM

The BIC F-12 seems to be the budget favorite. You can get it or 190 or a little less on Amazon if you watch the price. monoprice.com has a 12" sub for around $80 now. No idea if it is very good, but probably decent for the price. BTW, when you turned up the bass, did you hear a big difference? If not, something is set up wrong.

The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#13 of 21 raehza

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Posted February 19 2012 - 04:01 AM

get a BIC F12. Excellent Sub for the price. It'll be like night and day. You didn't mention any price so I will suggest another sub too. A SVS PB12-NSD. The reviews speak for themselves. Look it up.

#14 of 21 snake

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Posted February 24 2012 - 01:10 PM

Thanks fellas for the replies! Got any budget ideas for a receiver too??

#15 of 21 TheGary

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Posted February 24 2012 - 08:37 PM

Onkyo 609. 709 Pioneer 1021, 1121 Denon 1912, 1712

#16 of 21 snake

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Posted February 27 2012 - 03:23 AM

Man I appreciate the suggestions! Looking very seriously at a few of those listed! Any suggestions on where to make the purchase from?? Is there a vendor that is associated with this forum that you all recommend??

#17 of 21 JohnRice

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Posted February 27 2012 - 03:39 AM

Just my $0.02. I'm a big fan of Marantz receivers and you usually can get some great deals at accessories4less.com and sometimes onecall.com, but those deals seems to be short right now. Those also aren't budget receivers, but if you are willing to get a refurb and keep looking you can often get a discontinued $900 receiver for around $400 or even less. onecall.com often has great deals on Denon closeouts.

The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#18 of 21 snake

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Posted February 27 2012 - 03:44 AM

John, Honestly will a better receiver fix my issues?? Will more wattage drive my speakers and be good for music and movies?? I like the idea of a microphone to make all the adjustments automatically for me cause I'm ignorant in that area!!

#19 of 21 Martino

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Posted February 27 2012 - 05:25 AM

I just made the assumption that these towers could slam on their own and lack of a sub wouldn't be missed greatly until one is purchased.

Honestly will a better receiver fix my issues?? Will more wattage drive my speakers and be good for music and movies??

Seems like you bought tower speakers, but are not providing enough power to actually drive them as you are expecting. So more and cleaner wattage will be able to drive the larger towers and provide a better sound. You can also get a powered sub,so the subs amp will provide the extra "umph" in the bass region. Looked up these speakers... http://www.polkaudio...s/recent/rti12/ From the specs (which you cannot always believe): Recommended Amplifier Power 50-500 w/channel From the link above - from someone who has owned the speakers and tried them on different amps - seems like he saw this lack of bass issue with a similar receiver that was rated at 80 watts/channel...from that review: "I purchased the RTI12 over a year ago and have connected them to various Amplifiers. Harmon Kardon AVR7300 110 watts x (7) or 125 watts x (2)the Harman Kardon is known for its High Currency output although it was not able to perform efficiently at low bass levels. Onkyo TX-SV525 80 Watts x (2) Onkyo is known for its heavy output Power Transformers, they performed extremely well although I think the power output was not sufficient enough to get response from the speakers that they were capable of delivering, on the other hand the Realistic STA-2700 rated @ 100 Watts x (2)" From your receiver: http://usa.yamaha.co...__u/?mode=model From your receiver section - will provide 80W with two channels driven... 80W (8ohms, 0.9% THD) So - it looks like it will make a difference.... You can look through the speaker reviews as well - it seems like there is more than one owner who is happy they upped the power: "These are just amazing never thought I could hear such highs and lows at thesame time JVC 8010 driving them but not enough power so went out and got a new Yamaha RX-Z1 WOW you need power to drive these bad boys"

#20 of 21 JohnRice

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Posted February 27 2012 - 03:08 PM

John, Honestly will a better receiver fix my issues?? Will more wattage drive my speakers and be good for music and movies?? I like the idea of a microphone to make all the adjustments automatically for me cause I'm ignorant in that area!!

A better receiver will produce better sound. Unfortunately, there is no spec for actual sound quality. Bottom line, low end receivers will never sound as good as better ones. I find Marantz products to give a good vale in the sense of sound quality. People often pass them over because they lack the quantity of gadgets other brands have. All this splitting hairs of 85 watts and 100 watts with receivers that, in the end, are generally pretty gutless doesn't make much difference. The fact is, I don't know what you consider "good" sound. Millions of people think those booming car stereos sound great, but they make me want to puke. Usually, the #1 thing you can do to get better performance is to add a decent sub and set it up properly. That means experimenting with placement, though a front corner is usually the best, then use a rational crossover frequency. That means one that isn't too low. My general rule is that should be somewhere between 2x and 3x the -3dB level of the speaker. I find somewhere between 80-100 Hz is often best. Channeling the low frequencies to the sub essentially gives the receiver a massive power boost. The next thing you can do is use a good external amp instead of what is in the receiver. Once you hear what real power can do, you'll never go back to the wimpy amps in any receiver.

The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.





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