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Shout Factory Press Release: Route 66: The Complete Series


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#41 of 173 OFFLINE   Jack P

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Posted April 24 2012 - 07:27 AM

     Quote: I'm with Brad on this one.  I highly doubt Brian Ward ever saw the Infinity releases, so depending on his analysis is a moot point.  To him the prints he saw looked good.  We all know that's a subjective call no matter who is making it.  And while I was holding out hope that we'd see better, cleaner prints, I knew that it was more than possible that we'd get the same type of quality we saw on the earlier releases.  If this first report is spot on (and I have no reason to doubt it at this point) then this will be a bummer.  Having said that, I am excited about finally having the last season released. Gary "as has been said a hundred times, you can't compare an indy like Shout to a major studio - they work with what is given to them, and that's it" O.
Gary, this is the guy who took personal charge of preparing this set, and his comments specifically go out of the way to diss the Roxbury transfers, and leave readers with a clear understanding of why we should expect them to look better, which also I might add is supposed to convince those of us who spent money on the first three seasons, why it will somehow be worth our while to spend a fortune on a complete set and not gripe about it. Now that we discover there is no substantive difference between what their S1-3 will look like and what Roxbury's looked like then what we have here is a case of a label engaging in an act of price gouging the consumer a lot worse than WBA can ever be accused of IMO. The fact they are an indy is not an excuse for them, especially when they have a spokesman who in all candor has developed a track record for saying a lot of things that turned out to be false. Shout should have simply released S4 only and left it at that. There is no justification IMO for this kind of screw job on the consumer by repackaging the same elements and expecting someone to pay $130 retail for one season of episodes. If that practice can be excused for Shout, then sorry, but all the complaints about the WBA price scale just went up in smoke as far as I'm concerned.

#42 of 173 OFFLINE   Rob_Ray

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Posted April 24 2012 - 07:37 AM

The thing is, Gary, Shout has been known to improve themselves in the past. When FKB S1 was plagued with edited episodes, Shout demanded better transfers. When Rhoda S1 was plagued with edited episodes, again Shout demanded better transfers, and it was one of the rare instances Fox actually remastered something from the original element. Vahan "I'm sorry, but I don't buy the whole "we can only use what we are given" excuse" Nisanian
I happen to know that Shout didn't just demand better transfers in the case of FKB. They were lucky enough to have a Sony employee on board who went above and beyond the call of duty and did some detective work on his own time to find better materials and generate masters from them when there was no financial incentive for Sony to lift a finger. Just because you "demand" better transfers doesn't mean you get them. Many times, the agreement with the studios on fifty-year-old product with limited revenue potential stipulates the use of pre-existing transfers and you either want them or you don't.

#43 of 173 OFFLINE   smithb

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Posted April 24 2012 - 07:48 AM

The thing is, Gary, Shout has been known to improve themselves in the past. When FKB S1 was plagued with edited episodes, Shout demanded better transfers. When Rhoda S1 was plagued with edited episodes, again Shout demanded better transfers, and it was one of the rare instances Fox actually remastered something from the original element. Vahan "I'm sorry, but I don't buy the whole "we can only use what we are given" excuse" Nisanian
Actually, with regard to FKB, I believe it was Sony that came through. I don't think Shout! has the clout to demand anything like that. And I'm sorry that you don't buy it but "we can only use what we are given excuse" is one of the most valid excuses that independents have. I don't see how you could claim otherwise.
Gary, this is the guy who took personal charge of preparing this set, and his comments specifically go out of the way to diss the Roxbury transfers, and leave readers with a clear understanding of why we should expect them to look better, which also I might add is supposed to convince those of us who spent money on the first three seasons, why it will somehow be worth our while to spend a fortune on a complete set and not gripe about it.
I've followed the Shout! board as well as here, and i came to know such conclusions. So if you could please provide examples, it would be appreciated. I am a supporter of product, not organizations. So please don't attempt to label me one way or another. They all have the pro's and con's. But in this case, I really don't recall reading any such claim. I can see where some may have read between the lines, but nothing else. However, I am happy to admit if it is shown that I missed something.

#44 of 173 OFFLINE   Jack P

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Posted April 24 2012 - 08:35 AM

Brad, from my standpoint it comes down to common sense. "As for the quality of the masters, we're using those we acquired from the original owner (not to be confused with the previous licensee)." This implies going back to the source material and promising that this is going to look better than what Roxbury did. "Many of these episodes, particularly in the first season, had multiple sources. We went through each one and found the best source available and are using those. Like I said, the footage looks good." And if this doesn't all but telegraph an EXPECTATION that the results will look better for S1, which was the one that people were most annoyed about, I don't know what else could. He could have issued a cautionary caveat that "We're working from the same material Roxbury had, so don't automatically expect a significant difference overall" that would have represented honesty in advertising, that we should exercise a cautionary judgment call on whether we think its worth a VERY expensive double dip I might add because while the material will not be "ported" neither can we expect it be significantly better. But what Brian did here was spin everything in a manner designed to lull the customer into thinking, "Of course this will be better, you don't have a thing to worry about." I call that a snake-oil pitch of the first order, and when it comes from the same person who for two years kept repeating a falsehood about Shout already having a license to do all eight years of "Ironside" and who then tried to obfuscate the screw-up job on AITF S7, I think I can be forgiven for viewing his remarks in an unfavorable light. I'm glad shout did "Barney Miller" and is fasttracking "Kojak" and finished "Adam-12" at last, but this is another reminder of why I wish we could stop seeing people speculate about future releases being something only Shout should be entrusted to do (and you don't have to be a fan of Neil and his tactics to feel that way I might add).

#45 of 173 OFFLINE   smithb

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Posted April 24 2012 - 09:16 AM

Brad, from my standpoint it comes down to common sense. "As for the quality of the masters, we're using those we acquired from the original owner (not to be confused with the previous licensee)." This implies going back to the source material and promising that this is going to look better than what Roxbury did. "Many of these episodes, particularly in the first season, had multiple sources. We went through each one and found the best source available and are using those. Like I said, the footage looks good." And if this doesn't all but telegraph an EXPECTATION that the results will look better for S1, which was the one that people were most annoyed about, I don't know what else could. He could have issued a cautionary caveat that "We're working from the same material Roxbury had, so don't automatically expect a significant difference overall" that would have represented honesty in advertising, that we should exercise a cautionary judgment call on whether we think its worth a VERY expensive double dip I might add because while the material will not be "ported" neither can we expect it be significantly better. But what Brian did here was spin everything in a manner designed to lull the customer into thinking, "Of course this will be better, you don't have a thing to worry about." I call that a snake-oil pitch of the first order, and when it comes from the same person who for two years kept repeating a falsehood about Shout already having a license to do all eight years of "Ironside" and who then tried to obfuscate the screw-up job on AITF S7, I think I can be forgiven for viewing his remarks in an unfavorable light. I'm glad shout did "Barney Miller" and is fasttracking "Kojak" and finished "Adam-12" at last, but this is another reminder of why I wish we could stop seeing people speculate about future releases being something only Shout should be entrusted to do (and you don't have to be a fan of Neil and his tactics to feel that way I might add).
Jack, Again, I'm sorry but i read none of that in those statements. Maybe i'm a bit jaded but I don't expect any sort of language coming from someone selling something to be completely honest or forthright. Whether it be Shout!, WB or any of the others. I try to stay away from reading between any lines and take things at just face value until all the facts come out. I see nothing in what you wrote that distinguishes Shout! from anyone else in this industry. Whether it be the advertising approach, creating double-dip scenario's, information being forwarded on that ends up being incorrect or not forthright, promises of completion that turn into stalled releases. Any release by any producer can end up being a perfect release or a complete failure, or a "grail" release for one to a bad choice to another. Decisions are made and then changed all the time. I guess I just see things in the middle instead of b/w. I don't expect "fandom" perfection from an industry out to make money, and i try not to throw stones when i lack the facts to back it up. While i don't really appreciate the "Neil" reference. I actually agree with you about over the top fandom references like the "only XXXX can do it right comments". That was a poor choice for a thread title in anything but a Shout! specific forum. The problem I see in many of these threads is that all it takes is one person to make a completely biased comment, which leads to a defensive retort, and then the wheels come off in the back and forth responses. Obviously, it is hard not to favor a company that happens to release a favorite. I have my favorite releases like anyone else, I enjoy certains genre's more then others so that may favor one producer more then another. But in the end, I don't really see that much of a difference in operation between any of them, other than an independent generally has less resources at their disposal (money and content), which tends to lead to lower profile titles much of the time. So in this particular scenario, I do not see all the negativity in what Shout! released. It was exactly what i expected and I ordered it knowing that fully well. And i will be happy when it arrives. And not because it was done by Shout!, but because it is a title I wanted that is now complete that didn't look like it was going to be for some time. I think you know and have expressed that feeling yourself in the past.

#46 of 173 OFFLINE   Hollywoodaholic

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Posted April 24 2012 - 10:19 AM

Thank you for those reporting on the quality of the Season 1 episodes. While this is disappointing news, I too will probably stick with my Amazon order to have the entire series complete and in a smaller package. I just wish someone who appreciated the excellence of this series as much as many of us do was a bit more proactive - not only on understanding the complaints many of us had with the Infinity release Season 1 episodes, but in showing a bit more dilligence in possibly snooping out some better prints.

#47 of 173 OFFLINE   Neil Brock

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Posted April 24 2012 - 10:39 AM

Not necessarily pertaining to this set, but wouldn't you think that it would behoove a company to ascertain what elements are available before doling out big bucks to license a property? Would you buy a house based on someone showing you a picture or would you want to inspect it and see what you are getting for you money? And, just out of curiosity, is there a reason that neither Shout nor Roxbury could arrange to gain access to the 1-inch transfers that Sony did on this series for Nick at Nite in the mid-80s? While they are now 25+ year old transfers, they looked great, even had the original bumpers and coming attractions and they were certainly better than what we've been given thus far by both companies.

#48 of 173 OFFLINE   Will Green

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Posted April 24 2012 - 12:29 PM

Not necessarily pertaining to this set, but wouldn't you think that it would behoove a company to ascertain what elements are available before doling out big bucks to license a property? Would you buy a house based on someone showing you a picture or would you want to inspect it and see what you are getting for you money? And, just out of curiosity, is there a reason that neither Shout nor Roxbury could arrange to gain access to the 1-inch transfers that Sony did on this series for Nick at Nite in the mid-80s? While they are now 25+ year old transfers, they looked great, even had the original bumpers and coming attractions and they were certainly better than what we've been given thus far by both companies.
Perfectly said, Neil.
Thank you for those reporting on the quality of the Season 1 episodes. While this is disappointing news, I too will probably stick with my Amazon order to have the entire series complete and in a smaller package. I just wish someone who appreciated the excellence of this series as much as many of us do was a bit more proactive - not only on understanding the complaints many of us had with the Infinity release Season 1 episodes, but in showing a bit more dilligence in possibly snooping out some better prints.
Wayne, I concur completely. This is one of TV's true treasures, and it deserves a release befitting it's status. One could certainly argue whether it's worth paying roughly $80 just for the fourth season plus the Paley Media event, but it is to me. I'll look forward to you sharing your thoughful comments about the S4 episodes, just as you did with previous episodes, when you get your copy. Jack, I don't always agree with your viewpoints, but I must say that I took Brian Ward's comments on the Shout forum exactly the same way that you did. I expected that we would see improvement in the A/V quality of S1. David Com, Thank you for posting the information regarding the S1 edits and PQ. Would you please share with us your opinion on the A/V quality of S4?

#49 of 173 OFFLINE   smithb

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Posted April 24 2012 - 01:16 PM

I can't comment on transfers from the 80's but i can say that the prints i saw used by RTV in their recent broadcasts weren't very good. I captured the season 4 episodes off RTV (of which some appeared to be skipped) just in case a release did not come. However, i did not capture season 1 episodes to use for comparison. I may do that some time just to see how they compare with what was released on DVD.

#50 of 173 OFFLINE   Professor Echo

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Posted April 24 2012 - 03:37 PM

 
But in the end, I don't really see that much of a difference in operation between any of them,
  Exactly. Abject cynicism toward any corporate entity (yes, including Apple!) should be a part of any intelligent person's arsenal for everyday living. Faith can be a wonderful thing, but unconditional faith can lead to a lot of disappointment and frustration. A healthy bit of skepticism wins the (human) race.

#51 of 173 OFFLINE   Jack P

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Posted April 24 2012 - 03:42 PM

Excuse me? In other words if we simply choose to take a spokesman's word on something as part of a promise for why we should buy an endproduct, that means we're not acting like an "intelligent person" and we should have just presumed that some deceit was going to be practiced on this title? That's the end logic of what I'm hearing here, and frankly I don't care for that suggestion which seems to imply that Shout is entitled to a ho-hum, nothing-to-see-here reaction regarding their case of out and out deception simply because we're supposed to somehow, in order to prove we are "intelligent people" take for granted that things are not going to be as they are promised even when such promises are *specifically* stated.

#52 of 173 OFFLINE   Professor Echo

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Posted April 24 2012 - 03:57 PM

Yes, Jack, you read it right. I'm not saying you aren't intelligent, I'm saying that applying at least a modicum of distrust toward any company, whether they manufacture DVDs or whatever, will save you a lot of misguided hope. Based on their track record and your personal experience, which you have continuously brought up in these forums, why would you have unconditionally expected Shout to ever achieve perfection, no matter what they may have said in a pique of public relations?

#53 of 173 OFFLINE   Neil Brock

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Posted April 24 2012 - 04:03 PM

It's like Charlie Brown continuing to trust Lucy not to pull the football away. How many times do you have to be deceived before you stop taking Shout at their word?

#54 of 173 OFFLINE   Jack P

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Posted April 24 2012 - 04:08 PM

No, I think the fault dear Brutus lies not in ourselves but in our stars, in this case, a Shout spokesman for saying something dishonest and that responsibility for this should rest with the people who engaged in the dishonest act, and not the people simply applying some common sense judgment. If NOTHING had been said by Shout, then skepticism and wait and see was warranted all-around, but once a statement is made on the record in a forum such as this, that shifts the responsibility off the backs of the people who simply chose to look at what was said and make a perfectly reasonable judgment. And maybe I should cite the Amazon customer people who dissed a reviewer for criticizing Shout for not doing a separate S4, who specifically cited the aforementioned Ward quote to say that this was different because everything would have better sound and picture? If Shout's fans could take Ward at his word so easily on that, why shouldn't any other reasonable and yes, intelligent, person have done so as well?

#55 of 173 OFFLINE   Gary OS

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Posted April 24 2012 - 04:39 PM

Okay.  That's it.  I've been convinced by the august wisdom of certain posters here that Shout is by far the worst dvd outfit on the face of the earth and hence more than worthy of the constant digs they receive from said posters.  And on the other end of the spectrum there lies the infinitely perfect Warner Bros. Archives, also worthy of the constant praise those same posters heap on them.  Yep, no doubt about it.  _____ is right and the rest of you in this thread are all wet.      Gary "speaking of Charlie Brown... 'UGHHHHHHH' " O.
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                                             ...CHARLIE CHAN AT TREASURE ISLAND
 

 


#56 of 173 OFFLINE   Professor Echo

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Posted April 24 2012 - 05:09 PM

Posted Image

#57 of 173 OFFLINE   Gary OS

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Posted April 24 2012 - 05:16 PM

I do love Peanuts (both the nuts and the comic strip).      Gary "take care, Glen" O.
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#58 of 173 OFFLINE   Professor Echo

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Posted April 24 2012 - 05:29 PM

You and me both, Gary.


 


Neil's analogy was quite apt, I thought. Not just with regards to Shout, but with the world in general.


 


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#59 of 173 OFFLINE   smithb

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Posted April 24 2012 - 05:34 PM

Wow...there's just no reasoning in Shout! or WBA threads anymore. Staying clear from now on. Enjoy all.

#60 of 173 OFFLINE   Gary OS

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Posted April 24 2012 - 06:34 PM

     Quote:
 /t/318411/shout-factory-press-release-route-66-the-complete-series/30#post_3919746 Wow...there's just no reasoning in Shout! or WBA threads anymore. Staying clear from now on. Enjoy all.
  Wise words, my friend.  I'm going to do the same - starting right now.     Gary "take care, everyone" O.
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