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connecting amps together?


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#1 of 12 OFFLINE   surround sucks

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Posted February 04 2012 - 03:23 PM

hey there i need some help please, i have a pioneer vsx519v amp, dali concept 6's and a dali concept 12' sub and looking to upgarde to cerwin vega gear. what i want to do is get rid of the dali towers and buy the cerwin speakers also a cerwin cxa - 8 or 10 amp. is there any way of connecting the amps as i can't see any sub inputs on the back of the cerwin amp?? i know if i run the new speakers on this existing amp they will die very quickly

#2 of 12 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted February 04 2012 - 04:30 PM

After reading your post I'm kind of confused about what you're trying to do but you cannot connect two amps together (except a receiver to a subwoofer amp wthat has speaker-level inputs) and you can't connect the 519 to either cxa. The 519 doesn't have the necessary pre-outs. And what CV speakers are an upgrade from Dali's?
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#3 of 12 OFFLINE   surround sucks

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Posted February 04 2012 - 05:18 PM

thanks gene, sorry about the confusion. i'm just a bit over the dali's and want to go a bit bigger and louder. i was thinking the CMX 212's not a massive bank of concert speakers. you don't recommend the CV's??

#4 of 12 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted February 04 2012 - 05:54 PM

If you want bigger and louder then CV's are usually the ticket. But according to CV's website they have a sensetivity of 93 db (which is pretty low for CV) and the Dali's are a whopping 114! So you're going to need a really big amp to get the same sound pressure. Either way, you need a new receiver with pre-outs. Both of those speakers are way too much for that Pioneer receiver.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#5 of 12 OFFLINE   Mr645

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Posted February 05 2012 - 02:32 AM

Actually the Dali 6 is rated at (2,83 V/1 m) 91db. 114db is the maximum rated output. I don't know much about the vsx519v but it is rated at 110w .05 THD. BUT the distortion ratings is made at 1khz, not 20-20k. So the power and THD ratings are pretty meaningless. I would guess that the pieces you have should be able to be driven to a pretty strong SPL. What exactly is missing? Bass? Overall volume? Is the sound getting distorted once you get the volume where you want it? You may want to consider a better sun and send more of the lower freq signals to the sub and free up more power for the Pioneer amps and Dali towers to handle. Move the cross over up some so the Pioneer amp and Dali's don;t have to play the low end as much.

#6 of 12 OFFLINE   surround sucks

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Posted February 06 2012 - 09:32 PM

nothing is missing. the speakers on their own are really crisp and throw the sub into the mix and the sound is great, i've had the cops round before hahaha. i don't know much about the technical side of audio, except that you can't starve the speakers of power. can you give me your opinion of the perfect setup and why the hell are valve amps so expensive when the they only give out 25w per channel, is there something i'm missing there

#7 of 12 OFFLINE   Mr645

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Posted February 07 2012 - 01:08 AM

I'll add a couple of points to consider. First, watts does not really tell you much about how much power you have. I have an accurate power measurement, you need watts X amps. I perfect example if that my Pioneer VSX32 receiver is rated at 110wpc, but I am using the pre outs to an external amp rated at 85wpc. The external amp is more powerful. It drives my speakers to louder levels and with greater control and better sound quality. I even was using the Pioneer to drive my center channel speaker and ended up moving the center to the external amp and the sound was much fuller, more life like. Now some high end amps may be rated at only 25 watts, but deliver those watts with very high amps. Which in turn will drive the speakers to needed volume Next is sound quality. In our never ending quest to duplicate the live performance, we look for ways to record sound and play it back in a way that will match the sound from the original as closely as possible. If you take a nice receiver, let's say a $999 model from (Yamaha/Onkyo/Denon/Pioneer/Sony) etc and match it up to $2000 worth of speakers, I would guess that even the not so well trained ear will be able to tell the difference between Diana Krall singing in a live venue and what the speakers deliver in your living room. But in our quest, let's says we start with a SACD recording and drop the disc into your Ayre C-5xe ($5950), and send the signal to a Mark Levinson N°502 pre amplifier ($30,000), from there, you send the signals to the amplifiers and why not use the matching Mark Levinson N°53 monoblocks ($25,000 per channel, let's start with 5). Then come speakers and many would agree that the Wilson Audio Alexandria X2 would be a great choice. Two pair, from and rear would run you $135,000 per pair ($270,000 for two pair), and the matching center channel, Wilson Watch 3s ($5200) and Subwoofer called Thor's Hammer, which by the way is designed to handle the lowest note of a pipe organ, which is 16hz at full volume (rated 20-120hz +/- 0db or 10-300hz +/-3db), and will set you back $21,000 and requires another Amplifier since it is not powered. Now that the big pieces are in place, and your wallet is $457,150 lighter, break out the Amex to cover $16,000 in cables, $15,000 for room acoustic treatments, $2500 for the electrician to upgrade the in home wiring, another $10,000 for racks, stands and other accessories and the sound will be much closer to that live concert you heard.

#8 of 12 OFFLINE   surround sucks

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Posted February 10 2012 - 09:22 PM

aaaahh ok you obviously know you're stuff!! my other half would kick me in the nuts if i said i was re mortgaging the house for a sweet as stereo you've laid down. my when i start a building company i can do that. so what you're saying in the first paragraph is that if i have an amplifier with pre outs, i can have another amp/pre amp linked through it the to boost the amps or watts to drive seperate speakers?? next question. are 2 channel amps available with a sub out. about 200w per channel, do they exist?? and, what would a reasonably priced valve amp set me back??

#9 of 12 OFFLINE   surround sucks

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Posted February 10 2012 - 09:47 PM

p.s. the valve amp i'm asking about has to have enough comfortabe head room for the dali's also an out for the sub

#10 of 12 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted February 11 2012 - 02:33 AM

Entry-level receivers won't come near the performance you're looking for, regardless of what the specs say. The pre-outs in receivers by-pass the internal amplifiers. The only power you will get is from the external amplifier. Home Theater amplifiers aren't like car stereo power boosters. They're instead of, not in addition to. Also, amplifiers don't have subwoofer outputs (or inputs). You use the subwoofer output on the receiver. And most two channel stereos don't have subwoofer outputs. You would connect the speaker level outputs to the sub and then the sub to the Front speakers. If you want a good two channel setup then I'd recomend a stereo pre-amp like the Emotiva USP-1 http://emotiva.com/usp1.shtm and the Emotiva XPA-2 http://emotiva.com/xpa2.shtm Or better yet, the Parasound 2100 http://www.audioadvi...?number=PAC2100 High quality stereo amps from Adcom, parasound, etc start at $$$! and go up from there. If you're mostly looking for volume then get a decent multi channel receiver with at least Front channel pre-outs, like the Marantz 5006, or something from Onkyo, Denon, etc (or pick up something cheap on the used market) and the Emotiva XPA-2. And as Jon suggested (and thanks Jon for correcting that 114 db boo-boo :blush: ), get a better subwoofer from SVS, HSU, Elemental Designs, Lava or better yet - build your own. If the Emotiva setup and those Dali's still aren't enough for you then you're going to have to wait until you get that building business started :) .
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#11 of 12 OFFLINE   Al.Anderson

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Posted February 11 2012 - 02:58 AM

... And most two channel stereos don't have subwoofer outputs. ...

There are some manufacturers that provide a sub pre-out on the stereo receivers. I know the Harman/Kardons provide them.

#12 of 12 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted February 11 2012 - 03:19 AM

Entry-level receivers won't come near the performance you're looking for, regardless of what the specs say. The pre-outs in receivers by-pass the internal amplifiers. The only power you will get is from the external amplifier. Home Theater amplifiers aren't like car stereo power boosters. They're instead of, not in addition to. Also, amplifiers don't have subwoofer outputs (or inputs). You use the subwoofer output on the receiver. And most two channel stereos don't have subwoofer outputs. You would connect the speaker level outputs to the sub and then the sub to the Front speakers. If you want a good two channel setup then I'd recomend a stereo pre-amp like the Emotiva USP-1 http://emotiva.com/usp1.shtm and the Emotiva XPA-2 http://emotiva.com/xpa2.shtm Or better yet, the Parasound 2100 http://www.audioadvi...?number=PAC2100 High quality stereo amps from Adcom, parasound, etc start at $$$! and go up from there. If you're mostly looking for volume then get a decent multi channel receiver with at least Front channel pre-outs, like the Marantz 5006, or something from Onkyo, Denon, etc (or pick up something cheap on the used market) and the Emotiva XPA-2. And as Jon suggested (and thanks Jon for correcting that 114 db boo-boo :blush: ), get a better subwoofer from SVS, HSU, Elemental Designs, Lava or better yet - build your own. If the Emotiva setup and those Dali's still aren't enough for you then you're going to have to wait until you get that building business started :) .

... And most two channel stereos don't have subwoofer outputs. ...

There are some manufacturers that provide a sub pre-out on the stereo receivers. I know the Harman/Kardons provide them.

Yes, the H/K stereo receivers do have subwoofer outputs but they output a full range signal, no bass management. I just feel using a multi-ch receiver in a two channel setup is a better way to go. Proper bass management, more inputs/outputs including hdmi, option of Zone 2 and Zone 3, room correction and speaker distance adjustments. Just too many advantages to using a HT receiver. If all you want is background music or lots of volume then a stereo receiver is alright (I think I just offended millions of stereo receiver users :blush: ) . But if you really want good sound then get a stereo pre-amp and a good source player. Just the rambling thoughts of yet another knucklehead on the internet :rolleyes: (but I'm right ;) ).
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 





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