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Setting up surround 5.1 on HTR-6150


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#1 of 8 OFFLINE   cwineman

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Posted January 11 2012 - 10:34 AM

I have an HTR-6150 and I'm trying to get 5.1 surround sound working correctly. I have L,R,center, and l-rear, r-rear speakers conntected. The first input source I'm trying to use is my cable box for now. For reference, here's a link to the manual for the tuner: here I can confirm that all of the speakers are connected and I can at least hear output from the tuner. Depending on what mode I'm in on the tuner I can hear output to all 5 speakers at once. But I'm not sure what I'm hearing is "surround" sound as opposed to simply the same output from the tuner being sent to all 5 speakers. I've tried the auto setup, but it fails with an error code:
E-5: CHECK SUR. Don't use SP SP without SURR SP
I'm not positive, but I think that the auto setup only supports 7.1, and it's not happy that I don't have surround left and right speakers connected. So I tried various things using manual setup, but I'm not sure I'm making any progress. One thing in particular is bothering me. On the right side of the tuner display (See manual page 24 en #17) there is an area - Input channel and speaker indicators - that I'd assumed is suppose to indicate which speakers are connected and/or active at the moment. But maybe not. The word Input in there seems strange. Right now when I look at it, it only has the L and R indicators on. When I used auto setup, those indicators changed as the tuner was testing all the various surround speakers using the mic. That's the only time they've ever said anything other than L and R. That makes it seem like that tuner only thinks I have the two front speakers attached. But that doesn't make sense since as I said I can hear output to all 5 speakers during auto setup. So it "knows" they're there. I realize this is a long rambling post and I haven't really posed a question yet, but I'm not even sure what to ask. I guess I just want some advice on how to trouble-shoot. Can anyone throw me a bone here? Thanks, -cwineman

#2 of 8 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted January 11 2012 - 01:59 PM

The YAPO setup will work with a 5.1 system but the speakers have to be properly connected :) . Make sure you connected the speaker wires to the "Surround" speaker terminals and not the "Surround Back" terminals. The SB channels won't work unless the SR channels are connected as well. In a 5.1 system the Surround speaker terminals are used and in a 7.1 the Surround and Surround Back terminals are used. You can't use the SB by themselves. In order for your receiver to produce true surround sound it must receive a digital signal from the source (in this case, the cable box). The speaker indicators on the right side of the display do exactly what you said they are doing. When performing the automatic setup they indicate which speakers are hooked up to the receiver. When playing a source they indicate what speaker signals are being sent to the receiver from the source component. The fact that only the L and R speaker indicators are lit means your source component is only sending a Stereo signal and not a 5.1. Either a setting in the cable boxes Audio Menu is in-correct (set to Stereo or Analog) or the program is broadcast only in Stereo. How is the cable box hooked up? With the red and white analog cables or an optical digital cable.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#3 of 8 OFFLINE   cwineman

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Posted January 12 2012 - 11:03 AM

Thanks for the replies, guys. First I'd like to report that, gene c, you were correct, I did indeed have the back speakers plugged into the "SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP" terminals. I thought that made sense since the speakers were in the back and the terminal said the word "back". But then again, I have no idea what I'm doing. So I switched those to the Surround L,R terminals and ran the setup again, and it worked. One mystery solved. Groovy. To answer both of you, my cable box is a Motorola DCH6416. It is connected to the TV via HDMI, and to the tuner via RCA cables to the DVT/CBL terminals. mccambley,

What sound field are you using on the Yamaha HTR-6150? Dolby Digital is the correct sound field for HDTV and DVD movies.

I'm not sure what a sound field is, but I'll take a guess at what you are talking about. I've switched through all the different modes using the button labeled "SUR. DECODE" on the remote and it switches between modes: Pro Logic, PLII Movie, PLII Music, PLII Game, Neo: 6 Cinema, Neo: 6 Music, & Neural Sur. Are the differences between these just a matter of preference? Or are you "supposed" to use one of these depending on what you're doing (movie vs music for example) and depending on what type of equipment you have. gene c,

The fact that only the L and R speaker indicators are lit means your source component is only sending a Stereo signal and not a 5.1. Either a setting in the cable boxes Audio Menu is in-correct (set to Stereo or Analog) or the program is broadcast only in Stereo.

I think this is the problem. Should I be using an optical cable instead of RCA cables? I figured surround sound was an all or nothing thing. If I'm using the RCA cables and I only see the L and R indicators on the tuner, should I be hearing any surround sound at all? Because I think I am. But it could be my imagination. I haven't changed any setting on the cable box, nor do I know how to. I'm willing to give it a try if you think it will help. What does "YAPO" mean, BTW? Also, I tried to connect my optical cable, but I'm an optical cable virgin. I think I'm sticking the correct gazinda into the correct gazouta, but the cable doesn't seem to want to stay. Do you have to push very hard to sort of make the cable "click" into place? Alright, I hope I've given some useful feedback. You guys have helped me make some progress. I appreciate it.

#4 of 8 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted January 12 2012 - 12:47 PM

"To answer both of you, my cable box is a Motorola DCH6416. It is connected to the TV via HDMI, and to the tuner via RCA cables to the DVT/CBL terminals." "I think this is the problem. Should I be using an optical cable instead of RCA cables? I figured surround sound was an all or nothing thing. If I'm using the RCA cables and I only see the L and R indicators on the tuner, should I be hearing any surround sound at all? Because I think I am. But it could be my imagination." You need the optical connection for real surround sound. Glancing through the Motorola's manual it looks like the hdmi connection is for video only, which is very strange. Maybe I missed something. Anyway, with the stereo analog connection you can get matrixed surround sound via Dolby ProLogic but it's not the same as true Dolby Digital 5.1. "I haven't changed any setting on the cable box, nor do I know how to. I'm willing to give it a try if you think it will help." I didn't see any audio settings in the Motorala's manual so don't bother with this for the time being. "What does "YAPO" mean" Sorry. I always get that wrong :blush: . It's YPAO. Yamaha Parametric Acoustic Optimiser. It's Yamaha's automatic speaker setup and equilizer program. "Also, I tried to connect my optical cable, but I'm an optical cable virgin. I think I'm sticking the correct gazinda into the correct gazouta, but the cable doesn't seem to want to stay. Do you have to push very hard to sort of make the cable "click" into place? " The optical connection isn't the best in the world. It is important to make sure you have the gazinda orientated correctly with the gazouta before pushing it in. If you look at it closely you can see there is only one way it goes in. You should feel a slight "click" and have the feeling it's in there. But it isn't a very secure connection. But since it's a digital connection it will either work or it won't. There is no "part way" or partial connection. If you hear any sound then it's connected. After connecting the optical cable you may have to "assign" the input you want to use on the receiver, like DVR or TV. This way the receiver knows to look at the optical port (and which one) for audio when you select the appropriate input. See pg 71.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#5 of 8 OFFLINE   cwineman

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Posted January 13 2012 - 02:36 AM

You need the optical connection for real surround sound. Glancing through the Motorola's manual it looks like the hdmi connection is for video only, which is very strange. Maybe I missed something. Anyway, with the stereo analog connection you can get matrixed surround sound via Dolby ProLogic but it's not the same as true Dolby Digital 5.1.

That sounds like exactly the problem. I'm getting simulated surround sound.

Sorry. I always get that wrong :blush: . It's YPAO. Yamaha Parametric Acoustic Optimiser. It's Yamaha's automatic speaker setup and equilizer program.

No shame. You're not alone. After I'd posted, I googled "YAPO" and figured out that it was the auto-setup because so many other people were using the same acronym. YAPO sounds better than YPAO anyway.

The optical connection isn't the best in the world. It is important to make sure you have the gazinda orientated correctly with the gazouta before pushing it in. If you look at it closely you can see there is only one way it goes in. You should feel a slight "click" and have the feeling it's in there. But it isn't a very secure connection. But since it's a digital connection it will either work or it won't. There is no "part way" or partial connection. If you hear any sound then it's connected. After connecting the optical cable you may have to "assign" the input you want to use on the receiver, like DVR or TV. This way the receiver knows to look at the optical port (and which one) for audio when you select the appropriate input. See pg 71.

I'll give the optical cable a try later on today. I'm pretty sure that's going to do the trick if I can just make sure the damn things stay connected. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again.

#6 of 8 OFFLINE   cwineman

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Posted January 20 2012 - 11:43 AM

gene c, It's been a few days, but I'm pleased to report that the optical cable worked. And every thing sounds great. This is a bit embarrassing to admit, but it's amazing how much better the optical cables connect when you remove the little protective rubber nipples. How was I supposed to know those weren't supposed to be there? Oh well ... I don't think I did any damage. Your help was appreciated. Now, onto some additional questions: 1) I used the auto-setup to configure everything. Do these auto-setups generally work pretty well, or would you recommend manually adjusting things? Like I said, things sound pretty good to me, but maybe I'm missing out on something cool just because I don't know any better. 2a) I HATE when I'm watching something and the commercials are 7 times louder than whatever I've been watching. This receiver has settings for "DYNAMIC RANGE". It has max, standard, and min options. To avoid the louder-than-hell commercial situation, I should use the "min" dynamic range option, correct? Also, if I choose that, what will I be missing out on? As I understand it, dynamic range exists so that, say, movies can produce loud, shocking sounds like gunshots and explosions that are significantly louder than general volume of the movie. If that's all I'd be missing out on, fine. 2b) I also hate (lower-case no bold, so this is a more mild hatred, mind you) when I'm watching something and I can't understand what the characters are saying because they are speaking quietly or whispering. I often can't turn up the volume because so many other things in the movie are loud action noises and cranking up the volume would piss off the neighbors. Minimizing the dynamic range should improve this problem too, right? Is there something else I can/should be trying? 3) This receiver supports both "digital coax" and optical inputs. What is meant by digital coax? What kind of cable do you use? Are the typical red/white RCA cables digital coax or is this a "special" wire? Is there a reason why either optical or digital coax cables is preferable? Once again, I've asked pile of questions. I'll stop typing now and let you guys lay some knowledge down. -cwineman

#7 of 8 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted January 20 2012 - 12:39 PM

"This is a bit embarrassing to admit, but it's amazing how much better the optical cables connect when you remove the little protective rubber nipples." Sorry, but that is pretty funny. :laugh: 1) The auto setup features do work fairly well but there are a couple of things to look at. Make sure all the speakers are set to Small and the crossover is set to 80hz or higher. This will direct the bass to the subwoofer where it belongs. It also doesn't hurt to double-check the other settings like speaker distance and their individual volumes. Maybe the center channel is set a little too low which is causing the problem of not being able to hear the dialog very well. But I would write down the settings on a piece of paper so you can put things back where they were if you screw them up. If you ever listen to stereo movies or music with Dolby proLogicII then you might want to re-adjust the Sound Field parameters like Panoramic, Dimension, and Center Width. See pg 42. 2a) I think Dynamic range is only applied to Dolby Digital and DTS sources. And I doubt it would make all that much difference with those annoying commercials. You would need Audyssey Dynamic Volume or Dolby Volume to really make a noticable difference in volume swings. 2b) For this, as I mentioned earlier, you can increase the volume of the Center channel speaker to help hear the dialog. I'm not sure if Yamaha allows for this, but maybe you can re-adjust the mid-range frequencies (250hz, 500hz and 1000hz or there-abouts) of the center channel which can also aid in hearing dialog. I think the Center GEQ is used to adjust the frequencies of the center channel. 3) Optical (or Toslink) uses a fibre optic cable to transfer light which caries the digital audio signal. Coaxial uses an old fashioned coaxial cable to transfer the audio, but it's still a digital signal. Optical is more high-tech but there is virtually no difference in sound quality between the two. We usually recommend the coaxial cable simply because the connection is far more stable than a toslink connection, as you've already found out ;) . The proper cable for a coaxial digital connection is a 75 ohm coaxial cable which happens to be the exact same specification as a subwoofer cable (usually color coded orange or purple) and the yellow composite video cable making all three interchangable. The red and white audio cables are a different spec and shouldn't be used for digital audio (or video for that matter). People with vey long subwoofer cable needs often just use an old fashioned coaxial cable (like the cable tv installer would use) and simply change the ends from the "F" connector to the RCA style connector. But the cable is the same. BTW, what speakers and subwoofer do you have? It would help to know so we can better dial in what some of your settings should be. Also, do you have a Bluray player yet? If so, hopefully it can internally Decode the new Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio hi-resolution audio formats and send them via LPCM. If so, your receiver, which is HDMI 1.2, can accept those decoded signals and you can enjoy those lossles audio formats. I hope at least some of this helps.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#8 of 8 OFFLINE   cwineman

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Posted January 20 2012 - 01:31 PM

gene c, I have no real response to any of your suggestions yet, but I'd like to thank you for once again providing a pile of useful things to investigate. Once I digest them, I'll give you another update. -cwineman