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Curtains for the Mac Pro?


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#181 of 248 Carlo Medina

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Posted October 24 2013 - 06:25 PM

No bones about it, I'm shocked that they kept the intro price at under $3K (especially with what I presume will be subject to their normal academic discount policy). I want one so badly, but I'm starting to hit a financial reality. At minimum, without even expanding the PCIe Flash Memory, I'm going to be out $4K if I include a nice monitor like the ACD. Thunderbolt 2 is very compelling, and the reason I was waiting for a Mac Pro was because the iMacs lacked TB2. However they just stuck TB2 on the Macbook Pro models, so an iMac with TB2 cannot be far behind. Since the earliest I'd be getting my next computer is tax return time (February 2014) I'm hoping a new iMac with TB2 will not be too far into the future at that time. Either way, by then we'll likely have word as to what Apple's display plans are. I'm sure they'll have a higher res ACD some time soon, maybe even 4K, but the price I fear may be astronomical, forcing me into the iMac line.

 

Of course, an iMac, with an SSD and TB2, along with whatever new GPU they have in the 2014 version, should be more than enough to run Pro Tools, Logic and Adobe Creative Cloud.

 

But who knows, if Santa is extra nice to me, a Mac Pro may still be a reality. I'll have a better idea of my financial picture after the holidays.



#182 of 248 Ted Todorov

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Posted October 24 2013 - 08:29 PM

There is one thing that I find bad about the new Pro:  only one single internal SSD?!?  Heck i have a Mac Mini with two disks (1 SSD, 1 HD) in it.

 

Surely the could have had up to 4 PCIe SSDs - for up to 4TB at current flash capacities.  Sure it would be just a fortune costing BTO config, but what's th point of the small, elegant quiet enclosure if you have to stick a loud, ugly box next to it to get any real work done?

 

 If internal capacity is capped at 1TB (same as the new Retina MBP to show you how absurd it is) the least they could do is selling a matching external RAID/HD/SSD enclosure.


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#183 of 248 Nelson Au

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Posted October 25 2013 - 07:12 AM

I'm guessing all this lack of internal storage space options has to do with cloud storage. And if Google gets its way, that's what the future has in store.

#184 of 248 Carlo Medina

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Posted October 25 2013 - 07:47 AM

Apple isn't really in the business of selling external enclosures (I can't think of one example in the past). They leave that to third party vendors, and OtherWorldComputing has made a whole business out of specializing in it. As we know with Apple it's about form and function, so in order to make the Darth Vader Garbage Can form factor, they sacrificed the traditional HD and even SSD expandability (probably at the expense of gaining a second GPU). They're thought process was that users can always add external storage, but it's really darned difficult to add an external GPU (it can be done, but it's not easy from what my limited understanding).

 

I'm going to bet that at least some of the external enclosure manufacturers will step up to the challenge of providing a solution that approaches the new Mac Pro's quietness and build quality (though expect to pay a premium for it).



#185 of 248 Ted Todorov

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Posted October 25 2013 - 11:17 AM

I'm guessing all this lack of internal storage space options has to do with cloud storage. And if Google gets its way, that's what the future has in store.

 

This is a PRO machine, with realistic price tags for many configs in the $5K and up price.  You aren't going to be storing the feature film you are editing "up in the cloud" no matter what.  Films cost millions of dollars.  What are you going to do, tell your investors or Paramount that Google ate 20 days of shooting if something goes wrong?   Cloud storage is utterly irrelevant in this case.


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#186 of 248 Nelson Au

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Posted October 25 2013 - 11:33 AM

I'm with you, I'm not gong to trust my hard work to the cloud! :)

#187 of 248 Carlo Medina

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Posted October 25 2013 - 12:31 PM

You're right Ted but the truth is if you're doing something "pro" (meaning a for-money large scale project) you probably would want an external mirror RAID array via TB2 for the ultimate in security, backup and speed. In order to fit in the new form factor Apple wanted to use, they were not going to give us the four internal HD bays (to do our own internal RAID setup) that the old cheese grater Mac Pros had.

 

I'm guess that Apple's rationale was: If one internal SSD plus one internal HD bay is enough to do your work, you're probably going to be served well by an iMac. If you are a true "pro" (meaning you make your living off of your projects) you're going to invest in a robust, external, fast and secure external solution and they're giving you four USB3 and six TB2 ports to connect to them.



#188 of 248 Ted Todorov

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Posted October 25 2013 - 12:34 PM

As we know with Apple it's about form and function, so in order to make the Darth Vader Garbage Can form factor, they sacrificed the traditional HD and even SSD expandability (probably at the expense of gaining a second GPU).

 

I just don't buy that -- they could have had the garbage can and crammed 4 PCIe SSDs in there.  I know how small they are -- I installed one in my Mac Pro, and it is mostly useless plastic.  Worst case they could have made the garbage can ever so slightly taller or wider -- nobody would have known the difference -- what is it being compared to?  And for extra credit, they could have made them user serviceable parts along with the RAM.  For a box that could easily last 6, 7 years…  

 

To put it another way -- imagine Apple offered a choice the current garbage can, or the old cheese grater form factor -- exact same CPU, GPU, SSD, ports and price but with the 4 empty drive bays, empty PCIe slots, empty optical bays…  Which would sell more?  Would they sell way more overall? (That's not what I'm saying they should have done -- just the little concession above).


Edited by Ted Todorov, October 25 2013 - 12:37 PM.

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#189 of 248 Ted Todorov

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Posted October 25 2013 - 12:36 PM

I'm guess that Apple's rationale was: If one internal SSD plus one internal HD bay is enough to do your work, you're probably going to be served well by an iMac. If you are a true "pro" (meaning you make your living off of your projects) you're going to invest in a robust, external, fast and secure external solution and they're giving you four USB3 and six TB2 ports to connect to them.

 

Fair enough.


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#190 of 248 Sam Posten

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Posted October 25 2013 - 02:33 PM

Step right up:
http://www.sothebys....014/lot.27.html

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#191 of 248 Carlo Medina

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Posted October 25 2013 - 05:27 PM

Ted - yes they certainly could have crammed multiple PCIe SSDs in there. And nearly doubled the cost. I think Phil Schiller said in the press conference "and if you know what D300s cost and that high speed flash, you're super impressed with this pricing."

 

As someone who has been subject to the "Apple Tax" for a while, I am super impressed with what they're giving us for $2999. I'll add externals any day to keep pricing at that. Four internal PCIe SSDs would put this well above my ability to even consider purchasing.



#192 of 248 Clinton McClure

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Posted October 26 2013 - 08:21 AM

The standard Mac Pro is Darth Vader and the custom auction version is the Imperial Guard.  :D



#193 of 248 Ted Todorov

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Posted October 26 2013 - 08:56 AM

Ted - yes they certainly could have crammed multiple PCIe SSDs in there. And nearly doubled the cost. I think Phil Schiller said in the press conference "and if you know what D300s cost and that high speed flash, you're super impressed with this pricing."

There is absolutely no reason the price should have changed by one cent:  I wasn't suggesting an entry level model with 4 PCIe SSDs - I was suggesting just having the slots for them, and keeping all the default configs/prices the same.  If someone wants to BTO it with 4 SSDs for a fabulous sum of money - more $$ for Apple.  And if someone adds SSDs over the years as needs change, prices drop and cash allows - Apple has a very happy customer.


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#194 of 248 Keith Plucker

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Posted October 26 2013 - 09:21 AM

I think Phil Schiller said in the press conference "and if you know what D300s cost and that high speed flash, you're super impressed with this pricing."

 

As someone who has been subject to the "Apple Tax" for a while, I am super impressed with what they're giving us for $2999.

 

I don't know what a D300 card "costs" but I sincerely doubt Apple is giving up its much prized margins regardless of what the hardware might suggest. A much more likely scenario is that they were able to negotiate a great deal with AMD.

 

-Keith


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#195 of 248 Carlo Medina

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Posted October 26 2013 - 12:28 PM

There is absolutely no reason the price should have changed by one cent:  I wasn't suggesting an entry level model with 4 PCIe SSDs - I was suggesting just having the slots for them, and keeping all the default configs/prices the same.  If someone wants to BTO it with 4 SSDs for a fabulous sum of money - more $$ for Apple.  And if someone adds SSDs over the years as needs change, prices drop and cash allows - Apple has a very happy customer.

But we don't know this for a fact do we? They're using a proprietary connection, unlike any SSD out there, which is why they're able to both save space and increase bandwidth, throughput and performance. It's easy for us non-engineers to say "they should have four of these slots and it shouldn't increase the price". But do you know that for a fact? Unlike the old Mac Pro, which used a traditional shaped motherboard and traditional PCI lanes, this new PCIe implementation is completely unique to Apple and may present challenges to expansion that we don't know about.

 

As you and others have said, Apple is about making money as well, so if it really were "that simple" I don't think Apple would have passed up a chance to do it.



#196 of 248 Steve Tannehill

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Posted October 26 2013 - 02:49 PM

Expected to fetch up to $60,000 at auction, the Product (RED) Mac Pro:

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • macpro1.jpg
  • macpro2.jpg

Edited by Steve Tannehill, October 26 2013 - 02:49 PM.


#197 of 248 Sam Posten

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Posted October 26 2013 - 04:53 PM

I linked that above, was trying to keep it a surprise =)   Beauty tho, eh?


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#198 of 248 Sam Posten

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Posted October 30 2013 - 07:28 AM

JD relinked this again today, it's absolutely stonking to see the precise, powerful and FAST transformations they can do with these metal beasts and then do it again with all the circuitry.

 


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#199 of 248 Sam Posten

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Posted October 30 2013 - 09:04 AM

Sage advice:  Skip the CPU upgrades and spend your cash on the GPU.  Don't buy massive SSDs, just get enough for your boot and Apps, 256 is probably fine, 512 is nice to have, 1tb is overkill.  Buy external RAID drives for your work files.

http://www.larryjord...the-new-macpro/

 

One of the comments struck me:  What if the reason we haven't seen new 4k panels announced yet for the new Mac Pro is because the next Apple TV -IS- a 4k panel???  =)


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#200 of 248 Carlo Medina

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Posted October 30 2013 - 09:08 AM

Yeah every time i keep thinking the iMac 2014 will be sufficient, I see some of these videos which really show off the new Mac Pro and make me want one despite knowing that Logic X will be more than handled by the iMac 2014 (and in all seriousness the 15" Macbook Pro Retina $2600 build ran it quite well in the store the other day).






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