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What we are up against...


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307 replies to this topic

#1 of 308 OFFLINE   MTrotter

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Posted December 19 2001 - 02:38 PM

Now is a good time to get an idea how hard it is going to be to win this OAR battle. I've spent some time observing the holiday J6P shoppers descending on Best Buy and Circuit City while I've been evaluating HDTVs. One poor guy had drug his wife out for the one day he could get her to set foot in BB. As they looked at the HDTVs, he tried in vain to explain to his wife about the 16:9 aspect ratio and movies, etc., but she was having none of it. She said, "So, this is what they are calling widescreen TV?" She not only didn't like it, but got real emotional about it.

Another 50-ish guy was trying to explain to his grown sons how, with a widescreen tv, you are really getting MORE picture, because you get the whole width of the movie. But they never seemed to even begin to understand it.

There are so many people who basically are threatened by change, that they fight it. So, you just know Blockbuster and Hollywood Video have also found these attitudes in their market research. Now that a lot of folks have DVD players, but still have 4:3 sets, I am afraid we are going to have an uphill fight for several years.

#2 of 308 OFFLINE   Inspector Hammer!

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Posted December 19 2001 - 02:57 PM

You said a mouthful their my friend! But as long as air is in my lungs, I won't stop fighting.
"That's Jack Bauer!!!!!! He's coming for me!!!!!" - Charles Logan

#3 of 308 OFFLINE   Justin Lane

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Posted December 19 2001 - 03:35 PM

My girlfriend used to not care either way when watching a film on video...that is until she met me. After some convincing and good examples she is now a firm OAR believer. Tonight she told me she rented a film from Blockbuster and made sure it was indeed in widescreen before even placing her rental, which made me very proud.

We should try to educate everyone, but if they totally resist there really is nothing you can do. Forcing your will and agenda on others is never a good thing. As the saying goes, You can take a horse to water....

#4 of 308 OFFLINE   Rachael B

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Posted December 19 2001 - 04:05 PM

People really get upset over television issues. A couple of years ago when the satelite services were forced to cut off local channels to like zillions of people, that event generated a record amount of mail to Senators and Congressmen. I think that speaks volumes!
Rachael, the big disc cat is in real life Dot Mongur, Champion of the International Pacman Federation. You better be ready to rumble if you play Jr. Pacman with me. This is full contact Pacman and I don't just play the game, I operate it!


#5 of 308 OFFLINE   Dan Hitchman

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Posted December 19 2001 - 05:14 PM

I helped my neighbor get into home theater with a new 6.1/7.1 home theater system [Denon 3802, Polk RT55i's (front, center, and side surround), Polk RT35i's (center back), Panasonic RP91 DVD player, and bipolar/dual 10" subwoofer] that I installed for her. The very first DVD she purchased for her new film collection was Jurassic Park in remastered/corrected DTS (widescreen too, obviously).

A little back history...

She was what you'd call a Jane Six-Pack with money to burn and zero clue about film and proper movie presentation, home video transfers, etc. She was also previously working with a mono VCR and Bose [blech!] speakers, and only rented pan and scan VHS tapes and watched HBO/Cinemax movies because some of her friends where giving her the wrong information about letterboxing.

I very simply explained to her the benefits of widescreen and why the need for the black bars, and also why OAR was important (since, of course, not all films and TV shows were shot for a wide screen). Then showed her a small comparison demo.

The other night she stated that she was seriously considering dumping HBO and Cinemax because she could rent or buy the same movies and TV shows on DVD in widescreen and multichannel surround! She said after watching a few movies in widescreen for the first time outside a movie theater, she wasn't bothered by the black bars at all (and she only has a 27" TV).

Now she wants a widescreen digital front projector and Stewart screen next year to really get the full impact and then HDTV as soon as Colorado stations were on the air.

From staunch Jane Six-Pack to technically obsessed video/audio-phile in the span of 3 months. I'd call that a success story!

To all studios: some education, a little time, and a bit of patience is all that's usally needed and anyone can learn to appreciate OAR, or at least accept it. Do not pander with pan and scan/open matte transfers! People will come around.

Dan

#6 of 308 OFFLINE   Patrick Mirza

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Posted December 19 2001 - 09:38 PM

Next time anti-OAR j***offs go to a movie theater, roll a gigantic board to block out the movie screen completely(preferrably of a 2.35 film).

Completely, that is, except for a 4x3 square cut out in the center.

Let's see how many of these a-holes enjoy their "movie watching" then.

#7 of 308 OFFLINE   MTrotter

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Posted December 19 2001 - 11:59 PM

Dan,

Are there very many women like that in CO?!!! You sure won't find many in East Texas! I've never heard of such. Come to think of it, to buy the gear you mentioned is a year's salary for most folks around here.

#8 of 308 OFFLINE   Jim A. Banville

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Posted December 20 2001 - 02:19 AM

Quote:
There are so many people who basically are threatened by change, that they fight it.

You say they are "threatened by change". I say they PREFER full-screen because they like filling up their entire TV screen with a bigger picture.

If I told my wife, "hey honey, steaks taste better to us beef connoisseurs when it's rare vs. your preference - well done, so you should eat it rare", I think she would fight me forcing my preference onto her rather than "fearing change" Posted Image


"Take away the CGI and action sequences in the Star Wars prequels and what do you have left? Bad writing and worse acting!"
-Me

#9 of 308 OFFLINE   Rich Allen

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Posted December 20 2001 - 02:33 AM

A LOT of people feel very threatened by change. They just can't handle it in any way. Older people especially. The 4:3 vs OAR is only one small espect of it. These same people freak when the packaging on their favorite tuna changes. And there are a lot more people like that than you think.

#10 of 308 OFFLINE   RogerB

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Posted December 20 2001 - 02:40 AM

Jim,

Choice is one thing but ignorance is another.

I'm sure that if you took 10 J6P's and explained the difference between P&S and OAR so that they actually understood it, a couple of them would still prefer P&S. But the majority of them would gladly switch to OAR. I have no proof, I'm just sure. Posted Image

Have you educated a J6P today?

#11 of 308 OFFLINE   Raine Linton

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Posted December 20 2001 - 02:58 AM

My wife would have been satisified watching movie through a VCR on a 12" screen, but after I set up our theater, she saw the light and said she will never go back.
One at a time, it's gonna be a slow process. A friend refuses to get a DVD player stating life was complicated enough. ???! go figure.
Raine

#12 of 308 OFFLINE   Eric Thrall

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Posted December 20 2001 - 03:09 AM

I have to disagree with you that educating J6P will make most of them change their minds. I've worked on my wife, my two sisters, my brother and my mom. They all understand widescreen and its advantages, and they all have at least 32" TVs. Except for my youngest sister, every single one of them "wants the screen full" and would always pick a P&S movie over a widescreen. I explained the issue to them, I demonstrated it with several different movies, and they just don't seem terribly concerned that Chewbacca was cut out of a scene he should have been in. The only one I showed which got any reaction was the Pee Wee's Big Adventure scene with the bike chain, but that wasn't enough to change their minds.

#13 of 308 OFFLINE   Jim A. Banville

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Posted December 20 2001 - 03:22 AM

Quote:
Choice is one thing but ignorance is another.


That's exactly what the OAR zealots need to come to grips with. Many people CHOOSE to watch P&S/full-screen movies. That doesn't mean they are stupid, uneducated or ignorant.

Back to my analogy with the steaks. Any professional chef will tell you beef tastes "better" when rare or medium-rare. If someone who likes their steaks well-done accepts that the steak may taste "better" rare, but stil CHOOSES to eat it well-done, is he stupid, uneducated or ignorant?

I have spoken to MANY people about the differences between WS and FS. The VAST majority now know the differnce, but CHOOSE to watch FS on their 4:3 TV (which 99% of the US populace still uses as their primary TV). Attitudes will change as 16:9 TV's and programming become more popular over time, which the current transition of the American braodcast systen has MANDATED. People that think they are in a "battle" to get the mainstream public, who might watch 1 or 2 rented movies a month on their 4:3 TV, to embrace WS are living a pipe dream. If their intent to to ensure that they have their favorite films in OAR, they need to speak to the film studios, retailers and rental outlets via things like signing the Blockbuster WS petition, calling them and writing them. But the OAR zealots need to remember that some (I'd guess MANY) people LIKE full-screen presentations on their 4:3 TV's, and their money speaks as loudly as that of the OAR zealots.

But why they continue to make post after post HERE about someone they saw at a video store making some comment against WS acomplishes nothing except to give the high and mighty OAR zealots here somewhere to make derogatory comments about "Joe Sixpack".
"Take away the CGI and action sequences in the Star Wars prequels and what do you have left? Bad writing and worse acting!"
-Me

#14 of 308 OFFLINE   Bill Catherall

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Posted December 20 2001 - 03:46 AM

I had a friend over the other night to demo my relatively inexpensive, but tweaked system. He's hoping to be able to convince his wife to get a DVD player this Christmas, so I was giving him some advice about players and demo'd the pod race in TPM to give him a good surround sound experience and show him the shakers I put in my couch. While watching the 2.35:1 image on my 4:3 TV he said, "You know, one thing my wife would complain about are those lines." I said, "You mean the black bars?" He said, "Yeah. She'd complain about those, but I really don't care." I asked him if he knew why the black bars were there. He said he didn't know, but they didn't bother him. That's when I took a quick opportunity to explain that you can't get a widescreen image, as it was originally shown in the theaters, to fit on a "square" TV. I paused the video and said, "You know all those movies that say 'Modified to fit your TV'? They cut off this much picture..." and blocked off a portion of the picture... "to make it fill your TV." He was a typical J6P (not close-minded, just uninformed). He left that night a little wiser. Posted Image

My wife on the other hand never vocally complains about "those black bars," but just really doesn't care. She doesn't view any movie, even her favorites, as art. It's just entertainment fodder to her. Her quote..."As long as I'm seeing the most important part of the picture, I really don't care." Posted Image She's an atypical J6P...she's informed but is close-minded. I've given up trying to "help" her. It's just not worth it. However, it doesn't matter because I'm the only one buying and renting DVDs in my house anyway. It is my hope, and I really believe this, that most of the people out there are not like my wife. Sure there are some, but I'm betting there are more like my friend above...they just don't know the difference. It's not because they're stupid. It's because they probably just never gave it much thought. That's the way I was 7 years ago.

My mother...60 years old, prefers OAR. Even on her 20" TV. She also prefers Original Language tracks. You should have seen the rage when she found out that Life Is Beautiful got dubbed. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Posted Image

You can't do much to convince studios if you don't have the majority of the masses with you. Education is important for our fight agains P&S, cropping, zooming, or any MAR'd transfers. We aren't coming here to rally against J6P (not a derogatory term). Our venting serves to help regenerate our passion. When you live in a cold world that shoots you down when you try to educate people you need to go somewhere to refuel your fire. That's what this place is for. We rally against ignorance (I find many people don't know what ignorance means, like it's a bad thing, look it up). So please, stop the complaining about the OAR vs P&S posts. If you don't like them then don't read them. But those of us that are fighting this war need them. We need to rally. We need to vent. It's not bashing J6P...it's strategic planning. So if you're here to call us zealots or fanatics, please get off our backs!
~Bill

#15 of 308 OFFLINE   jeff peterson

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Posted December 20 2001 - 04:02 AM

To continue the steak analogy; Hey I ordered a 16 oz steak, where's the missing 4 oz???

#16 of 308 OFFLINE   Jim A. Banville

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Posted December 20 2001 - 04:05 AM

Quote:
Our venting serves to help regenerate our passion. When you live in a cold world that shoots you down when you try to educate people you need to go somewhere to refuel your fire.


Then I REALLY wish the admins would give you all a separate section just for that. You could pump each other up all day with your OAR war stories while we non-combatants could discuss all the MANY other aspects of the SOFTWARE section in peace Posted Image
Imagine if you cared ZERO about extras on DVD, but when visiting this section, every other post related to the "battle" to get people to accept extras on DVD's to the exclusion of EVERYTHING else. I suspect you'd skip past them for first few weeks, but soon it would become tiresome. I'd like to see either a specific section for this topic, since it seems to comsume some people's mind's so much, or give us a feature to delete those posts by selecting keywords such as "OAR", like usenet newsreaders do. If that function is here and I've missed it, PLEASE point it out.
"Take away the CGI and action sequences in the Star Wars prequels and what do you have left? Bad writing and worse acting!"
-Me

#17 of 308 OFFLINE   Jim A. Banville

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Posted December 20 2001 - 04:07 AM

Quote:
To continue the steak analogy; Hey I ordered a 16 oz steak, where's the missing 4 oz???


You should've order it rare Posted Image Otherwise your're missing out on all that FAT content.
"Take away the CGI and action sequences in the Star Wars prequels and what do you have left? Bad writing and worse acting!"
-Me

#18 of 308 OFFLINE   RogerB

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Posted December 20 2001 - 04:07 AM

Jim,

[rant]You've used the term "zealots" just about enough. As others have suggested - if you don't like the topic, don't read the thread. If, on the other hand, you choose to continue reading these threads, I have four words for you:

GET USED TO IT![/rant]

#19 of 308 OFFLINE   Justin Lane

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Posted December 20 2001 - 04:12 AM

Quote:
Then I REALLY wish the admins would give you all a separate section just for that. You could pump each other up all day with your OAR war stories while we non-combatants could discuss all the MANY other aspects of the SOFTWARE section in peace


LMAOPosted Image

#20 of 308 OFFLINE   William Ward

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Posted December 20 2001 - 04:28 AM

Quote:
Back to my analogy with the steaks. Any professional chef will tell you beef tastes "better" when rare or medium-rare. If someone who likes their steaks well-done accepts that the steak may taste "better" rare, but stil CHOOSES to eat it well-done, is he stupid, uneducated or ignorant?


No. That's their preference. But it doesn't infringe on the ability to get the optimal steak at your local restaurant.

But!!! Does anyone here have a problem getting a rare steak at a restaurant. I don't.

Does anyone have a problem finding the WS Willy Wonka DVD??? I do. If I want it I have to drive great distances or order it on-line.

Next analogy.
William


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