Jump to content



Sign up for a free account!

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests to win things like this Logitech Harmony Ultimate Remote and you won't get the popup ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

Blu-ray - Ovetures, Intermissions, Entre'Acte & Exit Music


  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 of 23 ahollis

ahollis

    Producer

  • 5,464 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 01 2007
  • Real Name:Allen
  • LocationNew Orleans

Posted July 12 2011 - 09:54 AM

While watching IAMMMMW I was pleased that Fox continued their policy of using a black screen for the Overture and Exit Music.  They have done this with several titles and I wish that other companies would do the same thing.  It sure made SOUTH PACIFIC special.


I though starting a new thread on the subject would help bring this to light to the other studios.  It is more than likely too late for BEN-HUR and MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY, but I wish Warner would do adopt this policy.

So IMHO Sony please adopt this for LAWRENCE OF ARABIA and OLIVER when you release those titles.  Paramount the same goes with MY FAIR LADY and SCROOGE.


Martin Hart came up with a great idea of a black screen with small pop-up in the lower corner stating Overture, etc. then disappearing.  This might solve the problem of people returning discs thinking they are blank.

Anyway anybody else has thought.  Hopefully the studios that read this will start thinking.  It just looks stupid to see a big Overture printed over the title background.  Same with the other Roadshow parts.


And while I am at it, it would have been great if Peter Jackson added an Intermission Card and Entr'acte to the extended LORD OF THE RINGS Blu-ray editions.  I'm just saying.





"Get a director and a writer and leave them alone. That`s how the best pictures get made" - William "Wild Bill" Wellman


#2 of 23 Guest__*

Guest__*
  • Join Date: --

Posted July 12 2011 - 10:21 AM

I think they should just have a black screen. The menus can have "Overture" etc. as the title of that chapter. If people are confused, I'm sure they would check to see what chapter they are on.



#3 of 23 Guest__*

Guest__*
  • Join Date: --

Posted July 12 2011 - 11:06 AM

Also, the video versions take away a bit. A couple of examples: The overture on Ben-Hur takes away from the scope of the film by letting the viewer glimpse the wide ratio on the Overture card before the film starts proper. On Gone With the Wind, the Entr'Acte card is the same bright red scene that starts Part II, taking away from the awesome first look at the deep red screen.



#4 of 23 Charles Smith

Charles Smith

    Extremely Talented Member

  • 4,045 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 27 2007
  • LocationNor'east

Posted July 12 2011 - 11:51 AM

Heartily agree with all the above.  (I would accept the compromise, if deemed absolutely necessary by a particular studio, of having the word "Overture" fading in and out, not too brightly, and not taking too long about it.)




#5 of 23 JohnMor

JohnMor

    Producer

  • 3,016 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 06 2004
  • Real Name:John Moreland
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA

Posted July 12 2011 - 12:05 PM

I agree.  Definitely prefer a black screen. I don't hate having a screen card up, but I prefer it without it.


And frankly I think most people who buy these big films know what the overture is anyway.  And perhaps a little paper flyer in the case to help explain it to those who don't.



#6 of 23 Stephen_J_H

Stephen_J_H

    All Things Film Junkie

  • 3,859 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 30 2003
  • Real Name:Stephen J. Hill
  • LocationNorth of the 49th

Posted July 12 2011 - 02:58 PM

Funny story. My mother bought the Superbit version of Lawrence of Arabia on DVD. She then phoned me shortly after starting the film on her DVD player, complaining to me that she had sound, but no picture. She had bought several Superbits in a clearance promo at Best Buy, so once she had clarified that it was Lawrence of Arabia, I said, "Give it a couple of minutes." When the opening credits appeared, I gently explained that Lawrence of Arabia had an overture and that there was no reason to be alarmed at the absence of picture.



I love my mother.


I obviously agree that the screen should be black.


"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player."-- Roger Ebert

#7 of 23 OliverK

OliverK

    Screenwriter

  • 1,503 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 01 2000

Posted July 12 2011 - 08:58 PM

And perhaps a little paper flyer in the case to help explain it to those who don't.

This. Put it where people have to read it before taking out the disc, maybe attach it on the hub above the disc? It could read something like: Roadshow Presentation, during Overture, Intermission/Entre'Acte and Exit music there will be a black screen. That might also be a case for seamless branching, bitrate will definitely not be an issue :)

#8 of 23 TheHutt

TheHutt

    Agent

  • 44 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 15 2009

Posted July 12 2011 - 10:50 PM

A pity it's too late for "Kingdom of Heaven DC". The DVD had all this stuff; the BluRay doesn't.

#9 of 23 Charles Smith

Charles Smith

    Extremely Talented Member

  • 4,045 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 27 2007
  • LocationNor'east

Posted July 13 2011 - 02:27 AM

Haven't some (probably older) releases included a note on the menu that the Overture, etc., will be played over a black screen?


Something related that I also wish every release included is chapter stops at these logical (to me) points:


Main Title, following end of Overture.

First scene or fade-in following the Main Title.

Beginning of Entr'Acte (if there is one).

First scene or fade-in following Entr'Acte, or following the intermission card if no Entr'Acte.

Beginning of End Credits -- if there's nothing but "The End", then put a stop just before that.


On that last point, since the first days of laserdisc -- or hell, even CDs -- I've always hated that you can't jump to the end of a disc or side when there's something you're looking for that's near the end.  It's bad for my blood pressure when I'm hoping for one last chapter stop, and get bumped to the menu.  This also applies to documentaries and any other features that are longer than just a few minutes.


I find chapter stop placement lacking on many releases, not just roadshows.  First of all, the more the better.  Second, and especially on roadshow releases, knowing up front that you're going to be able to cleanly navigate to these points would be a big plus.  I forget which it is, but even the new Mad Mad World Blu-ray misses on a couple of these.  (Not to pick on a release that's so fine otherwise!)


Anyway, just more ideas.




#10 of 23 David Weicker

David Weicker

    Screenwriter

  • 1,442 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 26 2005
  • Real Name:David

Posted July 13 2011 - 03:14 AM

Haven't some (probably older) releases included a note on the menu that the Overture, etc., will be played over a black screen?


Something related that I also wish every release included is chapter stops at these logical (to me) points:


Main Title, following end of Overture.

First scene or fade-in following the Main Title.

Beginning of Entr'Acte (if there is one).

First scene or fade-in following Entr'Acte, or following the intermission card if no Entr'Acte.

Beginning of End Credits -- if there's nothing but "The End", then put a stop just before that.


On that last point, since the first days of laserdisc -- or hell, even CDs -- I've always hated that you can't jump to the end of a disc or side when there's something you're looking for that's near the end.  It's bad for my blood pressure when I'm hoping for one last chapter stop, and get bumped to the menu.  This also applies to documentaries and any other features that are longer than just a few minutes.


I find chapter stop placement lacking on many releases, not just roadshows.  First of all, the more the better.  Second, and especially on roadshow releases, knowing up front that you're going to be able to cleanly navigate to these points would be a big plus.  I forget which it is, but even the new Mad Mad World Blu-ray misses on a couple of these.  (Not to pick on a release that's so fine otherwise!)


Anyway, just more ideas.


I don't think Mad Mad World has a chapter stop between the Overture and the Titles. For people who don't want to sit in front of a black screen and just want to get into the movie (like me - I know, I'm a heathen. Sue me), that would be nice. David

#11 of 23 ahollis

ahollis

    Producer

  • 5,464 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 01 2007
  • Real Name:Allen
  • LocationNew Orleans

Posted July 13 2011 - 01:12 PM



Originally Posted by David Weicker 



I don't think Mad Mad World has a chapter stop between the Overture and the Titles. For people who don't want to sit in front of a black screen and just want to get into the movie (like me - I know, I'm a heathen. Sue me), that would be nice.

David


Your right, there is not a chapter stop between the Overture and Main Title on Mad World.  There should have been.  And while I love the Overtures, etc, no one thinks you that much of a heathen


"Get a director and a writer and leave them alone. That`s how the best pictures get made" - William "Wild Bill" Wellman


#12 of 23 john a hunter

john a hunter

    Supporting Actor

  • 589 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 11 2005

Posted July 13 2011 - 01:32 PM

Couldn't agree more about the need for a black screen over the Overture, etc. That is also one problem for me on Warner's releases. Seeing the title card before you should is great mistake in my book. However, you can take some control over the problem and say "two fingers" to Warners, etc On my OPPO 83 and I think on their newer models, there is what I call"the roadshow button". Press the Pure Audio button and that's what you get. Sound and a black picture which you can release as the title comes up. Worth the effort I think until these studios do it properly.

#13 of 23 David_B_K

David_B_K

    Advanced Member

  • 1,401 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 13 2006
  • Real Name:David

Posted July 13 2011 - 01:51 PM

I am more bothered by the lack of chapter stops than the absence of a black background.

#14 of 23 ahollis

ahollis

    Producer

  • 5,464 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 01 2007
  • Real Name:Allen
  • LocationNew Orleans

Posted July 13 2011 - 04:30 PM




Originally Posted by David_B_K 

I am more bothered by the lack of chapter stops than the absence of a black background.


I agree that this is also bothersome.  There are some enthusiasts out there that would like to do without the roadshow additions and they can be accommodated easily.



"Get a director and a writer and leave them alone. That`s how the best pictures get made" - William "Wild Bill" Wellman


#15 of 23 Douglas R

Douglas R

    Screenwriter

  • 1,753 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 30 2000
  • Real Name:Doug
  • LocationLondon, United Kingdom

Posted July 14 2011 - 06:54 AM

A black screen may be preferable than a card on the screen but it still doesn't make much sense because audiences didn't sit looking at a black screen - or even a white screen. They looked at the proscenium curtains (assuming they were already sitting in their seats). Maybe it would be better to have an image of the proscenium curtains on the screen and as the Overture or Entr'acte music ends, the curtains open and the picture begins. That would be more authentic for roadshow presentations.

#16 of 23 Charles Smith

Charles Smith

    Extremely Talented Member

  • 4,045 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 27 2007
  • LocationNor'east

Posted July 14 2011 - 07:29 AM

That would work for me, if done nicely.




#17 of 23 kenNew

kenNew

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 79 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 22 2006

Posted July 14 2011 - 10:10 AM

I really like the idea of closed curtains during the overture etc but if we can't get that, then a blank screen is definitely preferable to a title card. Regarding Lawrence of Arabia, I think I read somewhere that when the film was being prepared for its first widescreen video release David Lean insisted on the black screen and his wish has been carried forward on all subsequent video/DVD releases.

#18 of 23 JohnMor

JohnMor

    Producer

  • 3,016 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 06 2004
  • Real Name:John Moreland
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA

Posted July 14 2011 - 12:38 PM

I'm gonna be the wet blanket here: if you're going to have an image of curtains then just keep an Overture card.  It's practically the same difference. An image is an image is an image.



#19 of 23 OliverK

OliverK

    Screenwriter

  • 1,503 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 01 2000

Posted July 14 2011 - 01:43 PM

I'm gonna be the wet blanket here: if you're going to have an image of curtains then just keep an Overture card.  It's practically the same difference. An image is an image is an image.

Doug is right though - in a movie theater one would see curtains and in home theaters where there are no curtains that would be the best way to recreate the theatrical experience. Personally I would think that a black screen is to be preferred as the colors and the look of the curtains would become a point of debate for sure.

#20 of 23 Robert Harris

Robert Harris

    Archivist

  • 7,305 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 08 1999
  • Real Name:Robert Harris

Posted July 15 2011 - 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OliverK 



Doug is right though - in a movie theater one would see curtains and in home theaters where there are no curtains that would be the best way to recreate the theatrical experience. Personally I would think that a black screen is to be preferred as the colors and the look of the curtains would become a point of debate for sure.

This is still video, and a home theater experience.


And viewers occasionally become confused when they hear audio without image.


David Lean's suggestion for Lawrence was simple.  Overture begins.  After 2-3 seconds, a title fades in - Overture - simple, element, stays on screen for a few seconds, and fades out.


RAH



"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users