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A few words about...™ The Lord of the Rings Trilogy - Extended Edition -- in Blu-ray

A Few Words About

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#21 of 1193 OFFLINE   Mark Booth

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Posted June 14 2011 - 02:37 PM



Originally Posted by Robert Harris 

I'm not going to be able to find the time to view all of these.


That said, if someone would care to give me timecodes from previous releases, I'd be happy to give things a quick look.


As far as the same footage being used in multiple films for flashbacks, since I don't know the filmmakers, I'm unable to say that

they didn't want things a certain way.  Or it could be an error.  Not an expert on these films.  Far too new.


So far I'm very pleased.


Robert,


Please take a closer look at the scene when Gandalf first arrives at Bilbo Baggins' front door in Fellowship of the Ring.  During one closeup of Gandalf's face, the clouds have disappeared and it's nothing but blue sky behind him.  On the EE Blu-ray, is the sky behind him a realistic shade of blue?  Does his robe and beard appear to have an excessive green tint?


The screen caps that have been circulating for the last couple of days show (what most are agreeing is) too much of a green or cyan tint to the entire image, particularly during any scenes in the shire.


This video of the scene in question supposedly shows the comparison of the theatrical edition Blu-ray to the extended edition Blu-ray:





Supposedly, the green or cyan tint is something that Jackson approved.  If the EE Blu-ray looks like the left side of that video, I find it very very hard to believe that Jackson gave it the OK.


Mark



#22 of 1193 OFFLINE   Craig S

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Posted June 14 2011 - 03:30 PM

Bill Hunt's review is up at the Bits:


http://www.thedigita...iews061411.html


He gives 19 (out of 20) to all three films for PQ. Says they really benefit from being split over two discs.

Here's what he says re: the color timing:



Colors are pleasing too, though it's worth noting that the color timing for these films has been redone. I've confirmed with production-related sources that Jackson and cinematographer Andrew Lesnie were directly involved in all decisions related to this new transfer and approved it personally. So to the extent that there are changes to the color-timing, they were made at Jackson and Lesnie's direction - the films look exactly as they want them to.


Has the source of these screen grabs been identified? I haven't read anything yet that attributes the grabs to any particular site or reviewer.


Three truths about movies, as noted by Roger Ebert:

 

* It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it.

* No good movie is too long, and no bad movie is short enough.

* No good movie is depressing, all bad movies are depressing.


#23 of 1193 OFFLINE   MatS

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Posted June 14 2011 - 03:31 PM





#24 of 1193 OFFLINE   Vincent_P

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Posted June 14 2011 - 04:28 PM

It's MIDDLE EARTH-  a fictional fantasy realm populated by Wizards, Orks, Hobbits, Dragons, various demons, etc. etc. etc...


It's NOT SUPPOSED to look like reality!


Vincent

Originally Posted by litlgi74 

There is no way the mountain snow scene should look like this or ever did in the theater!

http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/







#25 of 1193 OFFLINE   litlgi74

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Posted June 14 2011 - 06:44 PM

Here is a closer... more detailed examination of the differences between the FOTR EE BD and TTT EE BD (flash back) scenes... as well as other comparisons.



FOTR EE BD vs TTT EE BD (Flash Back) The FOTR EE BD is way when compared with the FOTR EE DVD
http://screenshotcom...omparison/59615

FOTR TE BD vs TTT TE BD (Flash Back) What most would have expected after seeing the EE DVDs (see next link) http://screenshotcom...omparison/59616

and just for kicks...

FOTR EE DVD vs TTT EE DVD (Flash Back)
http://screenshotcom...omparison/59620



Check out the massive differences between FOTR TE BD vs FOTR EE BD... very little in TTT TE BD vs TTT EE BD

FOTR TE BD vs FOTR EE BD
http://screenshotcom...omparison/59618

TTT TE BD vs TTT EE BD
http://screenshotcom...omparison/59619


And if you really want to fry your brain... Check out these DVD Vs BDs (I increased the resolution ob the DVDs to 1080p in PS...) the levels were bumped up when saving because of the format change.
FOTR EE DVD vs FOTR EE BD... Look how dramatic the color and density shifts are between the two... just like in FOTR TE BD vs FOTR EE BD.
http://screenshotcom...omparison/59622

FOTR EE DVD vs FOTR TE BD... I think it's important to not that the color really doesn't change much in this comparison.
http://screenshotcom...omparison/59625

TTT EE DVD vs TTT EE BD... nor does the color really doesn't change much in this comparison.
http://screenshotcom...omparison/59623



But let us not forget where blue snow cones come from...

FOTR TE BD vs FOTR EE BD
http://screenshotcom...omparison/59621

In summary... the only version that sticks out like a sore thumb when compared with all the other editions... is FOTR EE BD. __________________


#26 of 1193 OFFLINE   Paul_Scott

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Posted June 14 2011 - 08:42 PM



Originally Posted by Vincent_P 

It's MIDDLE EARTH-  a fictional fantasy realm populated by Wizards, Orks, Hobbits, Dragons, various demons, etc. etc. etc...


It's NOT SUPPOSED to look like reality!


Vincent





Posted Image


Yeah. Middle Earth is supposed to look like the Transformers, which is supposed to look like Captain America, which is supposed to look like Rise Of The Planet Of The Apes, which is supposed to look like every other mother f*#@king movie out there now.


Nothing takes me out of a movie these days faster than seeing all this hyper unnatural color grading. It's like movies are being made for children with very limited palates. Everything is either super sweet or super sour. No place any more for nuance and subtlety.




#27 of 1193 OFFLINE   oscar_merkx

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Posted June 14 2011 - 11:43 PM



Originally Posted by Mark Booth 

More fuel for the fire...   A video featuring Jackson and Lesnie discussing the digital color grading done to the theatrical release of FOTR.





After watching that video, I find the color-timing on my theatrical edition Blu-rays to be a lot closer to what Jackson and Lesnie seemed to be after, versus the screen caps we are seeing (mostly on other sites) of the supposed extended edition Blu-rays.  In the video, they discuss adding more of a golden hue to the shire (Hobbiton) to bring out the greens, rather than just pumping up the green.  That golden hue is how the theatrical Blu-ray looks compared the extended edition screen caps.


Mark


Cool interview



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#28 of 1193 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted June 15 2011 - 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Booth 

Robert,

Please take a closer look at the scene when Gandalf first arrives at Bilbo Baggins' front door in Fellowship of the Ring.  During one closeup of Gandalf's face, the clouds have disappeared and it's nothing but blue sky behind him.  On the EE Blu-ray, is the sky behind him a realistic shade of blue?  Does his robe and beard appear to have an excessive green tint?


The screen caps that have been circulating for the last couple of days show (what most are agreeing is) too much of a green or cyan tint to the entire image, particularly during any scenes in the shire.


This video of the scene in question supposedly shows the comparison of the theatrical edition Blu-ray to the extended edition Blu-ray:





Supposedly, the green or cyan tint is something that Jackson approved.  If the EE Blu-ray looks like the left side of that video, I find it very very hard to believe that Jackson gave it the OK.


Mark


To my eye, there may be a point or two toward cyan-blue, but nothing like what I'm seeing in the youtube example.  Skies are generally a pleasant blue, flesh tones, even for non-humans are normal, greens are strong.  I presume they're not in Kansas anymore.


Detail is superb, recognizing the fact that we're dealing with 2k.


I'm seeing no problems whatsoever.  A beautiful and satisfying image.


Projected via a JVC RS50 recently tuned by my go-to expert Kevin Miller, on a Stewart white 1.3.  Here's documentation:





 

RAH



"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#29 of 1193 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted June 15 2011 - 12:40 AM

Quote:


Bill Hunt's review is up at the Bits:


http://www.thedigita...iews061411.html


He gives 19 (out of 20) to all three films for PQ. Says they really benefit from being split over two discs.

Here's what he says re: the color timing:




Has the source of these screen grabs been identified? I haven't read anything yet that attributes the grabs to any particular site or reviewer.


I concur with Mr. Hunt.


RAH



"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#30 of 1193 OFFLINE   litlgi74

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Posted June 15 2011 - 01:07 AM

Hello Mr. Harris,


So you are saying with your version of FOTR...


You don't see the tremendous color change from TE to EE?


Which what does your snow look like, White (TE), or Cyan (EE)?


FOTR TE BD vs FOTR EE BD
http://screenshotcom...omparison/59621


Thanks



#31 of 1193 OFFLINE   Bob_S.

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Posted June 15 2011 - 01:40 AM

I watched FOTR last night at a theater and I thought it looked fantastic. I don't remember the snow scene looking that blue but on the other hand I wasn't looking for it either.



#32 of 1193 ONLINE   Mike Frezon

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Posted June 15 2011 - 02:19 AM



Originally Posted by litlgi74 

Here is a closer... more detailed examination of the differences between the FOTR EE BD and TTT EE BD (flash back) scenes... as well as other comparisons.



John:

Did you produce those screen grabs yourself?  Or, did you just port them over from screenshotcomparison.com?


I guess what I'm really wondering is:  have you seen the actual blu-ray discs of FotR yourself?

It seems like every major release that comes out has some "sky is falling" screengrab alert before the discs hit the street and that many times it turns out there is some anomaly in the grabs themselves.


So, for us interested bystanders we have--on the one hand--Robert Harris and Bill Hunt giving the new FotR transfer extremely high grades and then--on the other hand--we've got these obviously color-skewed screenshots.  That's why I'm wondering if you've seen the new blu discs yourself or are just repeating what others are putting up?


Thanks.



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#33 of 1193 OFFLINE   TheBat

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Posted June 15 2011 - 02:27 AM



Originally Posted by Bob_S. 

I watched FOTR last night at a theater and I thought it looked fantastic. I don't remember the snow scene looking that blue but on the other hand I wasn't looking for it either.


I had the same reaction. if anything it looked great.
nothing to really worry about.


Jacob




#34 of 1193 OFFLINE   Mark Booth

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Posted June 15 2011 - 02:31 AM



Originally Posted by Robert Harris 

Quote:


To my eye, there may be a point or two toward cyan-blue, but nothing like what I'm seeing in the youtube example.  Skies are generally a pleasant blue, flesh tones, even for non-humans are normal, greens are strong.  I presume they're not in Kansas anymore.


Detail is superb, recognizing the fact that we're dealing with 2k.


I'm seeing no problems whatsoever.  A beautiful and satisfying image.


Projected via a JVC RS50 recently tuned by my go-to expert Kevin Miller, on a Stewart white 1.3.  Here's documentation:





 

RAH



Folks, I don't know about the rest of you but Robert's opinion is the one I've been waiting for.  If he doesn't see a huge color shift then that's good enough for me!  Particularly since he evaluated the Bilbo Baggins' front door scene compared to the side-by-side (supposed EE and TE) video that's on youtube.


Thank you, Robert!


Mark



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Posted June 15 2011 - 02:34 AM

I think I'll wait for a boxed set with both versions and maybe the Hobbit. I know, it will probably be a few years but I have the blus of the TE and the dvds of the EE to tide me over. Spectacular movies that I am proud to have seen during their original runs. Sure to become film classics.



#36 of 1193 OFFLINE   Jarod M

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Posted June 15 2011 - 03:06 AM



Originally Posted by Mike Frezon 




John:

Did you produce those screen grabs yourself?  Or, did you just port them over from screenshotcomparison.com?


I guess what I'm really wondering is:  have you seen the actual blu-ray discs of FotR yourself?

It seems like every major release that comes out has some "sky is falling" screengrab alert before the discs hit the street and that many times it turns out there is some anomaly in the grabs themselves.


So, for us interested bystanders we have--on the one hand--Robert Harris and Bill Hunt giving the new FotR transfer extremely high grades and then--on the other hand--we've got these obviously color-skewed screenshots.  That's why I'm wondering if you've seen the new blu discs yourself or are just repeating what others are putting up?


Thanks.


Ok.  Go ahead and name all these major releases with the "sky is falling" screengrabs that turned out to be some anomaly in the grabs themselves.  The Ten Commandments screenshots were not by one of the established authorities in the area, and they were quickly found to be faulty.


Some people like to forget some of the glowing reviews of discs that turned out to have problems.  Screenshots are just one perspective, but as long as they are accurately grabbed from a legitimate source, they as good an indicator for knowing what a disc looks like as any review, and actually they are more objective.  I utilize both screenshots and reviews.  I believe it is foolhardy to simply bash one or the other, because neither one is perfect.


It appears now that the screenshots come from a source that looks different from what RAH is seeing, and also different from what was shown at last night's screening.  Now it needs to be established that there aren't any faulty discs out there.  It seems unlikely that only some discs would have the messed up coloring, but it was also unlikely that the colors would be intentionally or unintentionally altered in such a fashion on whatever source was used for those screenshots.  Is it possible that a bad batch of discs went out, perhaps in another region???




#37 of 1193 OFFLINE   cafink

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Posted June 15 2011 - 03:12 AM

Yeah, I couldn't think of very many cases where a problem discovered via screenshots turned out to be "some anomaly in the grabs themselves."  You've mentioned The Ten Commandments, and I remember there were some issues with the color on DVD Beaver's Contact screenshots, but are there any others?


 

 


#38 of 1193 OFFLINE   Mike Frezon

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Posted June 15 2011 - 04:00 AM

My only intent in asking the question was to determine the origin of the screencaps.  That's all.  If we find out they are, indeed, from an "established authority in the area" then I guess we have to wait and see who is closer to the mark in describing whether the image on the disc is a faithful reproduction of the film.  And I'm only asking because of the apparent difference of opinion.  I'm not taking sides.  Just trying to figure things out.

My "anomaly" remark could be interpreted as overly dramatic.  I only meant to say that there have been occasions when screengrabs have looked one way and the moving image on the disc have appeared differently.  I am no authority on such matters.  I've never pretended to be and my gear doesn't allow me to be.  And I often check out DVDBeaver.com when I am trying to get info on releases.


My question was only meant to ascertain the source of the screengrabs.  Nothing further should be inferred.


There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


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#39 of 1193 ONLINE   Colin Jacobson

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Posted June 15 2011 - 04:12 AM

I compared the theatrical BD and the EE BD side by side.  The latter's definitely greener, but it's not insanely greener.  I really don't think I'd have noticed a difference if I wasn't looking for it...


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#40 of 1193 OFFLINE   litlgi74

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Posted June 15 2011 - 04:31 AM

I produced all the screen grabs in VLC using the snapshot feature.


This is my favorite comparison...


FOTR TE BD vs FOTR EE BD
http://screenshotcom...omparison/59621








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