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WWDC 2011 Live Discussion Thread 6/6/11


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#41 of 117 OFFLINE   Craig S

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Posted June 06 2011 - 07:41 AM


Originally Posted by Sam Posten 

iTunes Match has possibilities, I wonder if it will let me convert the $1000 I have in DRM wrapped iTunes tracks to cloud based free downloads as part of the $25


Sam, from my reading of the description that's exactly the case, assuming they still have those tracks currently available in iTunes. Not only will you have access to DRM-free versions, they'll be 256 kbps instead of the 128 kpbs you probably purchased them at.


Edit: Hmm, maybe not. From Apple's "iTunes in the Cloud" page:


 If you want all the benefits of iTunes in the Cloud for music you haven’t purchased from iTunes, iTunes Match is the perfect solution.


But apparently the new Purchase History / Download to all of your Devices feature is available in "beta" today, by downloading iTunes 10.3. It will be interesting to see if your older tracks show up there as accessable in DRM-free versions.





Three truths about movies, as noted by Roger Ebert:

 

* It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it.

* No good movie is too long, and no bad movie is short enough.

* No good movie is depressing, all bad movies are depressing.


#42 of 117 OFFLINE   Keith Plucker

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Posted June 06 2011 - 07:44 AM


Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein 

Yup, FREE.  Way to go, Apple!


Well, free for the 9 Apple apps anyway. From what Steve Jobs said it seems pretty clear that any third party apps that use the iCloud APIs will be storing their files on space you have to pay for. Not to say that is unreasonable.


Lion available only by download seems odd to me. By the description in the keynote, if you have to reinstall Lion on a machine, you will have install Snow Leopard first, then download Lion and install that? Hopefully we will at least be able to back up the Lion download locally so it doesn't have to be downloaded again and again.


-Keith



As far as I'm concerned, it's a damned shame that a field as potentially dynamic and vital as journalism should be overrun with dullards, bums, and hacks, hag-ridden with myopia, apathy, and complacence, and generally stuck in a bog of stagnant mediocrity. - Hunter S. Thompson, 1958, from cover letter he wrote for a newspaper job.


#43 of 117 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

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Posted June 06 2011 - 07:48 AM

I was pretty let down by this Keynote.  First one in a while where I wasn't chomping at the bit to get new hardware or software.


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#44 of 117 OFFLINE   Nelson Au

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:00 AM

I just skimmed over the overview that Ron posted. All looks great.


I have concerns about cloud computing. I really like the idea of iCloud replacing mobile me and is free. I never signed up for it and I like that its free now. However above, someone said drop box will be hurt by this. I've used drop box to share files with clients. What I want to know is if I can do that too with iCloud. That would be great if we can set up a folder there for shared files. So it's not about sharing files from my iDevices, but more about sharing work files like CAD files I'm creating or Illustrator files, etc.


And while I wouldn't put my SS number out there, how secure is this? If I can get my mail or contacts pushed to all my devices, is it safe? I like this functionality, but always worry about the security of the server. And also what I worry about in cloud computing in general is what if the servers go down? While my data is still on my devices, what about my files? Or music in the case of some of you? I rip my CD's in iTunes, so I've never bought a song, nor do I plan to. I like iTunes and it's not a knock on iTunes at all, I just rather have the CD as back-up. I know, that's old thinking! Posted Image


I'm sure this will work out great and server going down is unlikely!



#45 of 117 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:08 AM

Nelson,


I will give you my initial guess response to your questions

based on my usage of MobileMe over the years.


For over three years now I have paid $99 for the service.

That should tell you how much value I see in the product.

Basically, to have all my information (Mail, iCal, Address

Book, Bookmarks) shared across my devices is a wonderful

thing.  The second I make a change on one device, it is
pushed to all.  

Even when I set up a new Mac, Mobile me automatically

syncs all my bookmarks to Safari, sets up my Mail with

a complete history of INBOX and OUTBOX messages,

including individual folders.  

MobileMe was problematic in the beginning, but over
the past year or two, it has worked pretty flawlessly.

So, basically iCloud is an extension of MobileMe.


There is a mention that 5GB of data storage will be

provided, so yes, like Dropbox, it should allow sharing

of files across devices.  MobileMe had something called

iDisk which I believe was pretty much the same thing.

I never used it, because I have been a fan of Dropbox.


Is it secure?  Supposed to be, but then again we have

seen all sorts of hacks to servers we thought were
secure including the recent Sony PS3 accounts.

I tend to trust these things and let the chips fall where

they may.  To date, nobody has hacked into an Apple

service to steal data.


Do the servers go down?  They have in MobileMe.

What happens is you just cannot sync until the servers

go back up.  I have to say, such an occurrence is very rare.


One question I have....


As most of my music is ripped from CDs -- not bought

from iTunes -- will iCloud still sync my complete iTunes

library across devices?


 

Ronald J Epstein
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#46 of 117 OFFLINE   Craig S

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:11 AM


Originally Posted by Keith Plucker 
Well, free for the 9 Apple apps anyway. From what Steve Jobs said it seems pretty clear that any third party apps that use the iCloud APIs will be storing their files on space you have to pay for. Not to say that is unreasonable.


...



-Keith


I don't agree with that interpretation. Do you have a quote? I would assume that as long as you have room in your initial free 5 GB allotment, any third-party apps using the APIs would be able to use it. I do expect Apple to offer more space for a fee for those who need/want it, but I think it would be more trouble than it's worth for Apple to keep two separate chunks of storage that are used depending on which app is calling the API.



Three truths about movies, as noted by Roger Ebert:

 

* It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it.

* No good movie is too long, and no bad movie is short enough.

* No good movie is depressing, all bad movies are depressing.


#47 of 117 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:13 AM



The only thing I am less than enthusiastic about is Lion only available through the App Store. A 4GB download on my DSL is going to be painful.



Craig,


The first thing I thought when I heard this was,

"Well, there goes people handing their friends copies

of MAC OS X installation discs."


Really, I think this is an effort not only to make it

more convenient for people to get software immediately

(no mail orders or store visits) -- but a method of preventing

people from sharing copies of OS X with friends and family.


I am all for this.  Imagine being able to download Lion the

second it's available.  No waiting for a copy to be shipped

or having to go to the Apple store.


To date, Apple really hasn't cracked down on sharing

of its software.  Unlike Microsoft, most of their major

software is installed without a serial number or any method

of tying the user to it.  Apple used to refer to it as trusting

their users.


Now, installations of software are tied to your device.


Of course, I don't expect that will stop the pirates as a lot

of App Store products end up on the pirate market anyway.


 

Ronald J Epstein
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#48 of 117 OFFLINE   Craig S

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:17 AM


Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein 

...

One question I have....


As most of my music is ripped from CDs -- not bought

from iTunes -- will iCloud still sync my complete iTunes

library across devices?


Ron, I am in the same boat as you re: CDs (see my post above). The way I understand it is, you subscribe to the iTunes Match service, it scans your local library with all your ripped tunes, and all of those which it can match in the iTunes store are now available (DRM free, 256 kbps AAC) to all of your iCloud-enabled Macs & devices - as long as your subscription is active. A flat $25 a year seems a very reasonable price to me for this service.



Three truths about movies, as noted by Roger Ebert:

 

* It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it.

* No good movie is too long, and no bad movie is short enough.

* No good movie is depressing, all bad movies are depressing.


#49 of 117 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:23 AM

Craig,


Here is the caveat to that.


I use Apple Lossless to rip my music.  Most of my 6,000 song

library is with music that has a bitrate above 800kbps.


Why would I want any of that dumbed down to 256kbps?


So, it seems, if I didn't buy the music on iTunes and I don't

want to have my current music "downgraded" to iTunes quality,

then I cannot share it across devices.


 

Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

 Click Here for the latest/hottest Blu-ray Preorders  Click Here for our complete Blu-ray review archive

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#50 of 117 OFFLINE   DaveF

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:28 AM

Lion...I don't know what to make of it. Were there new features besides googly-eyes in PhotoBooth? Does it ship with a free Magic TrackPad? I'll have to re-read the feature list, because I'm not sure what I get for my $30 on my 2007 MBP.


iOS5, however, I want today. Quick camera access from the lockscreen? I'll use that regularly. iMessages? Maybe I can save money on my SMS plan! Syncing!!!!!! (!!!!) Free MobileMe...can I forward my domain email to it, like I do with Gmail? (fingers crossed) Notifications that look handy, with the lockscreen thingy.



Originally Posted by Sam Posten 

Dave you are just going to have to get over that document centric thing, it's an App world.


I've tried. I can't. :) Unlike Steve Jobs, apparently, I operate in a task-centric mode, not application-centric. Apple's created an easy-to-design, simple to understand multiple desktop system that's largely useless. I keep hoping they'll get it right.




Originally Posted by Sam Posten 
Apple just pissed off:   Dropbox,  Sparrow,  Instapaper,  Readability,  Remember the Milk,  Facebook,  RIM, &  the carriers.    Well done.   --- Add in Google!


How is FB on the outs with this? Twitter? FB made it quite clear with the Ping thing that they have no interest in playing ball with Apple. I wouldn't think they'd care about this.


All the ToDo list and Syncing people were living on borrowed time. So it goes.




#51 of 117 OFFLINE   Craig S

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:39 AM


Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein 

Craig,


The first thing I thought when I heard this was,

"Well, there goes people handing their friends copies

of MAC OS X installation discs."


Really, I think this is an effort not only to make it

more convenient for people to get software immediately

(no mail orders or store visits) -- but a method of preventing

people from sharing copies of OS X with friends and family.


I am all for this.


I hear you, and I do expect this is part of it. It will certainly make life harder for "Hackintoshers". But see below on the "sharing with friends and family part".


  Imagine being able to download Lion the second it's available.  No waiting for a copy to be shipped

or having to go to the Apple store.



That's my point - all I can do is imagine it. On my crappy Verizon DSL I'll start this download when I get home from work on release day, and it MIGHT be done when I wake up the next morning. Also, I have three Macs - I know I only have to pay for it once, but do I have to download it separately for each of them, or can I share the initial download somehow?


I am far from alone in having crappy internet. The US as a whole MUCH worse off in having widespread, affordable hi-speed broadband available then many of the more fortunate/optimistic tech pundits (and Apple executives??) would have you believe.


There are other issues. I already talked about machines which are kept off the internet. What if you have to reload a Mac - do you have to reload Snow Leopard and then re-download Lion?? Aren't they going to continue to ship reload DVDs with new machines when Lion is available??


Bottom line - it is NOT the right time for Apple to go download-only on their 4 GB OS. They like to drive users as quickly as possible to their latest OSs, but they will leave too many users behind on this one if they don't provide an option to buy physical media. I'm guessing sometime between now and the actual launch date they will announce exacty that (probably at a higher price)


  To date, Apple really hasn't cracked down on sharing

of its software.  Unlike Microsoft, most of their major

software is installed without a serial number or any method

of tying the user to it.  Apple used to refer to it as trusting

their users.


Now, installations of software are tied to your device.


Of course, I don't expect that will stop the pirates as a lot

of App Store products end up on the pirate market anyway.


Actually, installations are tied to your Apple ID. Once purchased, you can install Lion to any Snow Leopard machine by logging on to the App Store with your Apple ID. So Apple is still trusting their users not to abuse that privilege. 

Three truths about movies, as noted by Roger Ebert:

 

* It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it.

* No good movie is too long, and no bad movie is short enough.

* No good movie is depressing, all bad movies are depressing.


#52 of 117 OFFLINE   Ted Todorov

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:42 AM



Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein 
I use Apple Lossless to rip my music.  Most of my 6,000 song
library is with music that has a bitrate above 800kbps.


Why would I want any of that dumbed down to 256kbps?


So, it seems, if I didn't buy the music on iTunes and I don't

want to have my current music "downgraded" to iTunes quality,

then I cannot share it across devices.


I am in the same boat as you, but I keep 256kbps copies of the Apple Lossless stuff for purposes of iDevice synching.  You use lossless on your iPhone, etc?  I don't have enough room.

If iCloud works correctly, you should be able to synch 256K onto your iDevices without having 256K on your Macs iTunes Library.



Hold on tightly, let go lightly.

 


#53 of 117 OFFLINE   Ted Todorov

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:43 AM

MobileMe user info: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4597


What happens to you 20GB worth of potential email storage?  Can you expand the free 5GB on iCloud, how, how much?


Hold on tightly, let go lightly.

 


#54 of 117 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:44 AM



Also, I have three Macs - I know I only have to pay for it once, but do I have to download it separately for each of them, or can I share the initial download somehow?



I betcha there will be a "Family Pack" that will be
available (at a premium) that you can download on

additional devices.


That's a pretty good guess.


Dave said he didn't know what to make of Lion.


I think I have it pretty much summed up.


Lion completes the Mac integration experience

between computer and iOS5.


You can see it in Lion.  Lion looks and works

more like iOS 5 than anything we have had

before.

I think the biggest goal for Apple was to be
able to integrate all the functionality across

every device.  The fact they are giving iCloud

away for free shows that they want every Apple

device to interact with each other seamlessly.


 

Ronald J Epstein
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#55 of 117 OFFLINE   Craig S

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:45 AM


Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein 

Craig,


Here is the caveat to that.


I use Apple Lossless to rip my music.  Most of my 6,000 song

library is with music that has a bitrate above 800kbps.


Why would I want any of that dumbed down to 256kbps?


So, it seems, if I didn't buy the music on iTunes and I don't

want to have my current music "downgraded" to iTunes quality,

then I cannot share it across devices.



Ahh, good point on Apple Lossless rips. We'll have to see on that one, although my guess is the deals they made with the music industry to allow this to happen probably cap the quality at 256 kbps.



Three truths about movies, as noted by Roger Ebert:

 

* It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it.

* No good movie is too long, and no bad movie is short enough.

* No good movie is depressing, all bad movies are depressing.


#56 of 117 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:46 AM


You use lossless on your iPhone, etc?




Ted, I don't put music on my iPhone or even iPod Touch.


Takes up too much room.  I use my iPod Touch at work

for Sirius Radio.  The app connects to the office WiFi and

I have it connected to speakers so I can enjoy music all day.


My music device is my Classic 160GB iPod which I hope

one day they expand.   Even with 6000 songs mostly in
lossless, I still have quite a bit of room left for more.


 

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#57 of 117 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:49 AM

Hey help me figure this out from the MobileMe FAQ (Thank You, Ted)




Effective June 6, 2011, if you had an active MobileMe account, your service has been automatically extended through June 30, 2012, at no additional charge. After this, the MobileMe service will no longer be available.



Uhm....why would I need MobileMe through June 30 2012

if iCloud does the same thing for free?


Does this make sense?


 

Ronald J Epstein
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#58 of 117 OFFLINE   Craig S

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:50 AM


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein 
I betcha there will be a "Family Pack" that will be
available (at a premium) that you can download on

additional devices.




There's no need for a Family Pack anymore, at least for the App Store version. Lion will be like everything else you buy from the App Store - purchase it once, and install on all of your Macs. This was specifically pointed out in the keynote. I just don't want to have to do the 4 GB download 3 times, like I do currently if I want to put an App Store purchase on all three of my machines.


Three truths about movies, as noted by Roger Ebert:

 

* It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it.

* No good movie is too long, and no bad movie is short enough.

* No good movie is depressing, all bad movies are depressing.


#59 of 117 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:53 AM



Lion will be like everything else you buy from the App Store - purchase it once, and install on all of your Macs.



Oh, damn.  Good point, Craig.


Well, that's good news for being able to use the OS X on multiple devices tied to your iCloud account.


 

Ronald J Epstein
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#60 of 117 OFFLINE   Craig S

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Posted June 06 2011 - 08:58 AM



Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein 

Hey help me figure this out from the MobileMe FAQ (Thank You, Ted)



Uhm....why would I need MobileMe through June 30 2012

if iCloud does the same thing for free?


Does this make sense?


I'm guessing they're keeping the old service up for an extra year to accomodate those customers who don't immediately upgrade to iOS5 and/or Lion. Also, it gives people who have the older hardware that doesn't support the new OSs a year to raise the funds and upgrade.



Three truths about movies, as noted by Roger Ebert:

 

* It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it.

* No good movie is too long, and no bad movie is short enough.

* No good movie is depressing, all bad movies are depressing.