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11.2 Receiver


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#1 of 21 OFFLINE   Senator Miah

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Posted April 04 2011 - 06:28 PM


Hey, I'm new to the forum.  I'm about to graduate from law school and the deal I struck with my wife was that my graduation present was going to be my dream home theater set up.  I graduate in May, have set aside some hard-earned dough and I am excitedly looking forward to my new toys.  In shopping for a new receiver, I have auditioned many, but have really liked both Denon and Onkyo the best so far (I have a 7.1 channel Sony right now).  Particularly, I was greatly impressed with both Audyssey DSX’s Height and Width and Dolby Pro Logic IIz Height speakers (especially the DSX Width speakers, the sound field was amazing).  My question is then, I cannot find an A/V receiver that currently powers all 11.2 channels (yes, I want two sub woofers).  Does anyone know when I can expect one to hit the market?

 

It seems very short sighted to sell/buy a 7.1/7.2 or 9.1/9.2 system that has the channels for an 11.2 setup, but not the actual power to run all of them at once.


As best I can, I want this receiver to last for many years to come and 11.2 seems like the logical next step (I am actually shocked that no one has one yet). 

 

(As a side note, I have tested Yamaha’s version of 11.1/11.2 and their matrixed sound cannot compare to either of the channeled sound fields of DSX or IIz, so Yamaha is right out).

 

Thanks for your thoughts!  

 



#2 of 21 OFFLINE   JohnRice

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Posted April 05 2011 - 04:45 AM

11.2 is a little absurd.  Do you really have the space for all those speakers and will you end up cheapening the speaker choice to get more of them?  If so stick with 7.1 at the most and get better speakers.  If you look at a current poll you will find most people here actually run 5.1.  As far as powering the sub, most subs have their own amps.  Beyond that, if you really did go 11 speakers, you would need to buy an extra external amp to make up the difference.  Typically you would use that amp to power the front 2-3 speakers, since it would probably be higher quality and more powerful than the receiver.




The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#3 of 21 OFFLINE   JohnRice

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Posted April 05 2011 - 04:56 AM

I'm curious what you believe the cost of an 11.2 dream system to be.




The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#4 of 21 OFFLINE   Senator Miah

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Posted April 05 2011 - 06:20 AM



Originally Posted by JohnRice 

11.2 is a little absurd.  Do you really have the space for all those speakers and will you end up cheapening the speaker choice to get more of them?  If so stick with 7.1 at the most and get better speakers.  If you look at a current poll you will find most people here actually run 5.1.  As far as powering the sub, most subs have their own amps.  Beyond that, if you really did go 11 speakers, you would need to buy an extra external amp to make up the difference.  Typically you would use that amp to power the front 2-3 speakers, since it would probably be higher quality and more powerful than the receiver.




 I looked at the 11.2 setup and have listened to it (in 9.2 form), and was extremely impressed (just as importantly, so was my wife). Many Blu-Rays are now encoded in 7.1 and even if they are only filmed in 5.1, Audyssey DSX actually decodes the track and sends the signals to the correct speakers (i.e. a plane or helicopter flying overhead is sent to the "Height" speakers and truly sounds like it is flying overhead and, with their unique "Wides" setup, objects moving right to left or vice-versa, now sound like entered from outside of your room, ran across it and then ran out through the other wall, the sound field is mind-blowing.  For more on that, you can check out their page: http://www.audyssey.com/technology/dsx.html




As for the Dolby Pro Logic IIz, they too specifically decode the data from the track that should be sent to the Height speakers, especially for music, the sound field was much more rich, full and bright, it was a much more immersive experience.  http://www.dolby.com...iz-details.html

 

So, I took people’s advice and went and listened to the setup and that’s actually what sold me on it, the sound imaging was much more immersive (especially in movies but even in SACDs) and sound stage presented itself as impossibly enormous (listening to Secretariat run across the front sound stage with the DSX “Wides” with my eyes closed made the front of the room sound about 90 feet wide and Secretariat ran across every inch of it).





#5 of 21 OFFLINE   Senator Miah

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Posted April 05 2011 - 06:28 AM



Originally Posted by JohnRice 

I'm curious what you believe the cost of an 11.2 dream system to be.





Given that I have current hodgepodge setup of a 46” Panasonic Plasma (TH-C46FD18), Panasonic Blu-Ray (DMP-BD55), Sony A/V Receiver (STR-DE985), DCM Front Tower Speakers (KX212),  a cheap Sony Center Speaker (Crutchfield offered it free with the receiver), EPI side surrounds (EPI 200B), my rear surrounds are by Akai (RPM8) and the jewel is my subwoofer, a Sunfire True Subwoofer Junior, I only need to add two sets of speakers, and another subwoofer.


I have thread going on the speakers right now:

http://www.hometheat...a4#post_3797329


Right now, I am leaning toward the Axioms.  Which would mean I am looking at about $4,000 for the four new speakers, sub, and (hopefully) a receiver.  Then, to upgrade the weaker speakers to match, about another $2,000.  If I can't find an 11.2 system, then this is the leading receiver so far:

http://www.crutchfie...tml?search=5008



#6 of 21 OFFLINE   John_Bilbrey

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Posted April 06 2011 - 07:37 AM

Get the receiver you want based on features....to power the additional speakers, you'll have to add an external amp(s).


#7 of 21 OFFLINE   Senator Miah

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Posted April 06 2011 - 04:38 PM



Originally Posted by John_Bilbrey 

Get the receiver you want based on features....to power the additional speakers, you'll have to add an external amp(s).



Okay, based on what I want, these are the two that are in the lead right now:

http://www.us.onkyo....ss=Receiver&p=i


and


http://www.us.onkyo....ss=Receiver&p=i


The latter option, the 5008, is running $300 more right now.  First, looking at the pre-outs on either, with an additional amp, it should run 11.2 channels at the same time, right?  Second, do you see $300 more value in the 5008 over the 3008?



#8 of 21 OFFLINE   Senator Miah

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Posted April 07 2011 - 04:08 AM

As  I see it, for the extra $300, the 5008 offers 5 more watts per channel, 1 Toroidal and 3 transformers for the power supply (instead of 4 transformers), 192K/32bit--finest Burr-Brown DAC, and an extra digital audio input.

So the upgraded sound DAC and the power supply seem like the two most meaningful differences, is there $300 worth of difference there?




#9 of 21 OFFLINE   Senator Miah

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Posted April 07 2011 - 05:05 AM



Originally Posted by John_Bilbrey 

Get the receiver you want based on features....to power the additional speakers, you'll have to add an external amp(s).



For the extra amp here are two options (though I am completely open to other suggestions too):


Staying with the same brand:

http://www.us.onkyo....s=Amplifier&p=i    ($349.99)


but, for the same price because of a sale:


http://emotiva.com/upa2.shtm


The Emotiva amp comes highly recommended on all boards I have seen.  Even though it's 125 watts, it should work with the system right?  Which of the channels should I power with it?



#10 of 21 OFFLINE   JohnRice

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Posted April 07 2011 - 05:31 AM

What I would do, if your budget allows and the receiver can be configured this way, and you have space for the amp, is get the Emotiva XPA-3 to power the front three speakers (after replacing the junk Sony center you are using now) then let the receiver power all the surrounds, which need far less power.




The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#11 of 21 OFFLINE   JohnRice

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Posted April 07 2011 - 05:32 AM

If you back off to the 3008, the savings will mostly pay for the upgrade in amp.  A much better combination in my opinion.


The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#12 of 21 OFFLINE   Senator Miah

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Posted April 07 2011 - 06:29 AM



Originally Posted by JohnRice 

What I would do, if your budget allows and the receiver can be configured this way, and you have space for the amp, is get the Emotiva XPA-3 to power the front three speakers (after replacing the junk Sony center you are using now) then let the receiver power all the surrounds, which need far less power.




John, okay, I really like that idea.  It the perfect combination of your separates suggestion and my latest HDMI and tech needs.  The XPA-3 looks like a beast and the reviews are universally glowing.  Should be awesome, wanna' come over later this fall and check it all out?  : )




#13 of 21 OFFLINE   Senator Miah

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Posted April 11 2011 - 04:21 AM

In reading more about it, it sounds like DTS is joining in on the fun and the CES reviews were very strong.  This is DTS' announcement concerning DTS Neo:X, an 11.1 surround sound mix from their studio:

http://www.dts.com/C...X_at_CeBIT.aspx



#14 of 21 OFFLINE   Senator Miah

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Posted April 11 2011 - 04:26 AM



Originally Posted by JohnRice 

What I would do, if your budget allows and the receiver can be configured this way, and you have space for the amp, is get the Emotiva XPA-3 to power the front three speakers (after replacing the junk Sony center you are using now) then let the receiver power all the surrounds, which need far less power.





Bummer!!!  I wrote Onkyo just to make sure this set up will work and this is what they replied:


"Thank You for contacting Onkyo USA Product Support.

We are experiencing a heavy volume of inquiries.  We apologize for the delay in responding.  Thank you for your patience.
 



Unfortunately we will not coming out with 11.2 receivers and even if you run a seperate amplifiers through the pre amp connections the maximum number of speakers is 9.2.


Again, thank you for contacting Onkyo and Integra USA Product Support,  if you need further assistance feel free to call us at:

Onkyo Product Support: 800-229-1687 
Integra Product Support: 800-225-1946 

Product Support Team Hours of Operation:                                          
Monday thru Friday 9am to 8pm   EST
Saturday & Sunday 10am to 4pm EST

Or visit our websites at integrahometheater.com, onkyousa.com or shoponkyo.com for product information, purchasing new and refurbished products, catalogues, hookup diagrams, authorized service & sales center locations, and  warranty information.

If you need to contact our Parts, Customer Relations, Orders and Credit Departments for Onkyo Products, please call 201-785-2600.

If you need to contact our Parts, Customer Relations, Orders and Credit Departments for Integra  Products, please call 201-818-9200.
                                 
Parts, Customer Relations, Orders and Credit Department Hours of Operation:
Monday thru Friday 9am to 5pm   EST "




Given the DTS Neo:X announcement and reviews and this bit of frustrating news above, it looks like it will be only speaker upgrades for me until a capable separate or AV receiver hits the market.    



#15 of 21 OFFLINE   davepr

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Posted April 16 2011 - 08:41 AM

If you still decide on Onkyo,  the 3008 can be had from "eggman"  for 1149 this weekend.  I tend to think the 3008 is the better value. They seem to drop the price on weekends.  Note that follow on to the 1008 3008 and 5008 should be out soon.


#16 of 21 OFFLINE   Senator Miah

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Posted April 27 2011 - 01:19 PM

Another article detailing the 11.1 sound from DTS neo:X (can't wait!)


http://forum.ecousti...579/674662.html



#17 of 21 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

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Posted April 27 2011 - 06:44 PM

It looks like 9.3 is the best you can currently do: http://www.audyssey....0&cat_filter=38  New products will probably be shown at CEDIA in September.  Denon has a 12 channel preamp that will get an upgrade to Audyssey DSX  later this year.  I'm not sure if it will be the 9.2 channel version or the 11.2 and its pretty pricey.



#18 of 21 OFFLINE   Senator Miah

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Posted January 20 2014 - 10:21 PM



Given that I have current hodgepodge setup of a 46” Panasonic Plasma (TH-C46FD18), Panasonic Blu-Ray (DMP-BD55), Sony A/V Receiver (STR-DE985), DCM Front Tower Speakers (KX212),  a cheap Sony Center Speaker (Crutchfield offered it free with the receiver), EPI side surrounds (EPI 200B), my rear surrounds are by Akai (RPM8) and the jewel is my subwoofer, a Sunfire True Subwoofer Junior, I only need to add two sets of speakers, and another subwoofer.


I have thread going on the speakers right now:

http://www.hometheat...a4#post_3797329


Right now, I am leaning toward the Axioms.  Which would mean I am looking at about $4,000 for the four new speakers, sub, and (hopefully) a receiver.  Then, to upgrade the weaker speakers to match, about another $2,000.  If I can't find an 11.2 system, then this is the leading receiver so far:

http://www.crutchfie...tml?search=5008

Okay, it has taken me a lot longer than I originally hoped, but the set up is coming along nicely.  It is still a hodgepodge setup, but the 46” Panasonic Plasma (TH-C46FD18) has been upgraded to the 64" Samsung 8500 (PN64F8500AF) and the Panasonic Blu-Ray (DMP-BD55) has been upgraded to to the OPPO BDP-103.  The front towers are still the DCM Front Tower Speakers (KX212), but the center was upgraded from the cheap Sony Center Speaker that Crutchfield offered free with the receiver to the matching DCM KX Center Channel speaker (still with the EPI side surrounds (EPI 200B) and rear surrounds by Akai (RPM8); my subwoofer is a Sunfire True Subwoofer Junior).

The time is approaching to upgrade the receiver, I knew I wanted 11.2 and finally the options are there.

I'm down to the Marantz SR-7008 with the MM-7055 Amplifier

http://www.crutchfie...display=Marantz

http://www.bestbuy.c...11#tab=overview

but I have always loved the specs on the Onkyo TX-NR5010 Receiver. 

http://www.onkyousa....&class=Receiver

paired with the Emotiva UPA-500 to power the full surround set up.

I have a line on the Marantz setup that would make it much more afforadable, but I would love your thoughts on comparing the two.  Thanks, as always.

 



#19 of 21 OFFLINE   JohnRice

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Posted January 26 2014 - 02:03 PM

11.2 is still absurd, which is why nearly three years later you are still looking rather than having enjoyed a new system all that time.

 

Get the Marantz receiver.  Sound wise, it will always beat anything from Onkyo.  You may "love" the specs on the Onkyo, but you listen to audio equipment, you don't read them.  Add an Emotiva XPA-3 to power the front three channels, and let the receiver power the rest, or an XPA-5 for the front three and two of the surrounds and let the receiver power the rest.  They are much better than the Marantz power amp you linked.  The idea is to have the best amp (the external one) power the front three speakers, not the receiver.  It's a MUCH better setup than using the receiver to power the front and a lesser amp (like the UPA-500) to power the surrounds, and the cost difference is relatively small.  The sound quality and power of the XPA-3 or 5 will blow away any amp built into ANY receiver.

 

This is all if your goal is sound quality.  Most people say it is, but then they go with bells and whistles over quality.


The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#20 of 21 OFFLINE   JohnRice

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Posted January 26 2014 - 02:06 PM

I have to add, spending over $2K on a receiver is crazy.  At that price you should be looking at separates.  At least if sound quality is a priority.  Quality will always beat quantity of speakers.


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The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.





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