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RAINTREE COUNTY on Blu?

Warner

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#21 of 556 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted January 11 2013 - 05:19 AM

Andrew, others are more qualified than I to comment on how much Raintree County would cost if done correctly and what constitutes doing it properly (asset preservation, at least 4k workflow, scan at 8k, keep the data, the works) but I doubt it would be much below 7 figures if they go all the way like it was done for titles like LoA, Ben Hur and HTWWW. Maybe one could also go at it on a lesser scale and just try a scan from a 65mm wetgate IP which would bring down the costs for the Blu-Ray and DVD release considerably. Sorry to hear that you missed that screening, will probably take a few more years before it can be screened again in Toronto!

#22 of 556 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted January 11 2013 - 05:23 AM

I don't know how. I was just talking to them at the Cinerama festival and they claimed they could have restored HTWWW for less and produced a higher quality image.

I have to admit that I hate these smilebox only releases, at least give us a choice and that is what Warner thankfully did.

#23 of 556 OFFLINE   RolandL

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Posted January 11 2013 - 05:24 AM

They scanned 65mm composite elements if I am not mistaken and Warner doesn't really work that way, they would want to go back to the camera negative for Raintree County. Quality is of course an issue, just compare what Warner got out of HTWWW to what the other Cinerama releases look like. The difference is huge but even more so the difference in budget. Raintree County deserves better than a stopgap solution release and hopefully the market for a special edition that could be marketed as first time in its original aspect ratio and on DVD/Blu-Ray should be significant. Add to that the resultant rights for airing this on HDTV later down the road and maybe in 4k when it finally comes around. By the way: I looked at your facebook face, makes me want to watch Raintree County again and it almost makes me want to go and get that MGM LD release except for the fact that it will not come remotely close to my screening of a 35mm Technicolor print about 2 years ago - I will need a Blu-Ray to get a more comparable viewing experience to that :D

The 65mm composite elements were used for some of the 3-panel films (TIC and Windjammer) but the others were done from the 3-panels, and the negatives were in terrible shape. If you look at what they started with and the results, they look pretty amazinng - http://www.in70mm.co...erama/index.htm

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#24 of 556 OFFLINE   rsmithjr

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Posted January 11 2013 - 11:52 AM

The 65mm composite elements were used for some of the 3-panel films (TIC and Windjammer) but the others were done from the 3-panels, and the negatives were in terrible shape. If you look at what they started with and the results, they look pretty amazinng - http://www.in70mm.co...erama/index.htm

65mm was used for TIC but Windjammer was from a 35mm composite. While I was impressed by the TIC and Windjammer Blu-rays, the think that really impressed me was the films that had been digitized to 2K from the original 3-panel negatives. At the Cinerama festival, we saw Cinerama Holiday, South Seas Adventure, and parts of Seven Wonders in the World projected on the big screen from a 2K DCP. Very impressive indeed. This was a huge undertaking for very very little money. I would certainly like to see what the team of David Stroheimer, Greg Kindall, and their associates could do with some of the projects that we are told are too expensive to do properly. How about Raintree County, The Alamo, Porgy and Bess, Spartacus, and even The Man Who Knew Too Much. Knowing and loving film seems to make up for a lot of financial nonsense at places like Universal.

#25 of 556 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted January 12 2013 - 12:57 AM

The 65mm composite elements were used for some of the 3-panel films (TIC and Windjammer) but the others were done from the 3-panels, and the negatives were in terrible shape. If you look at what they started with and the results, they look pretty amazinng - http://www.in70mm.co...erama/index.htm

In an ideal world one would give the same sniplets of a movie to 3 or 4 companies and get back a sample of their work in 2k and/or 4k. Not likely to happen for a variety of reasons and that press release is of course very positive, it is publicity material after all.

#26 of 556 OFFLINE   PaulaJ

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Posted January 12 2013 - 07:26 AM

Andrew, you should post the link to your Raintree FB page on the WAC facebook page. ;)
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#27 of 556 OFFLINE   Mark Collins

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Posted January 12 2013 - 08:23 AM

Andrew I idid post on your facebook page. I always thought it morbid how some fans would try to see Monty Cliffs face and the change in it. You know I am one of those very few people who just get caught up in story and never look for bloopers and such. I want to say again the soundtrack from Screen Archives is well worth the money. I am even playing it now while I am reading Team of Rivals the book Lincoln was based on. I also read Raintree the book which is quite long but well worth the read. I was sorry the Author died right after the book was published. I am going to put the movie in and watch it but man on my HD TV I had a hard time watching it a year or so ago. I bought the first VHS copy the big one and then as I said this last one. I see there is a dvd at Amazon but it has a bootleg look to it. I will give you all the support I can give to get the movie out. Any suggestion you want us to do will be done by me. I really think they are dumb not to restore it now while there is interest in the film by so many fans. Face it the longer they wait there will be less fans that remember this film.

#28 of 556 OFFLINE   Andrew Budgell

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Posted January 14 2013 - 06:42 PM

Oliver and Roland, thanks again for the great responses. Oliver, I really appreciate you making the restoration cost approximation. But as you say, we can't just think of it in terms of Blu-ray/DVD sales, but also TV airings, online streamings and downloads, etc. Paula, thanks for the suggestion! I was planning on posting the page on the WAC FB page, but I wanted to wait until the page got more 'likes'. :) Mark, thanks so much for liking the page! I didn't see your post...could you direct me towards it? I don't want to miss it! Thanks so much for pledging your support! Do you have any suggestions about how I can get the word out? I posted it twice on my Elizabeth Taylor Facebook page which has over 4,000 likes, but we still haven't cracked 100 likes for "Raintree on Blu". I'll try again, as well as spread the word on IMDb and the TCM forums. Please let me know if you have any thoughts! I don't really pay any attention to the before and after of Monty's face, either. Maybe I'm just not observant enough, but I never noticed it, I did buy the soundtrack when it first came out for a fellow Taylor fan for her birthday, but never bought a copy for myself. I'll have to do that! The cover art is gorgeous... I'd really like to read the book. Maybe I'll order a copy from Amazon. Yes, the DVD that Amazon sells is a bootleg...apparently the audio is horrible. The only official DVD has been released in Region 2 in Spain, and that's fullscreen and not the roadshow version.

#29 of 556 OFFLINE   Mark Collins

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Posted January 19 2013 - 08:34 AM

Hi Andrew, I think you are doing a great job and cannot think of anything to add. You might want to take a look at past threads here in the forum on Raintree for more ideas.

#30 of 556 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted January 19 2013 - 09:41 AM

As a native Mississippian you did not grow up without visiting the Windsor Ruins and hearing of the partial filming of Raintree County at that location. I too enjoy your page. Thanks for sharing.
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#31 of 556 OFFLINE   Andrew Budgell

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Posted January 19 2013 - 02:57 PM

Mark, great suggestion! And thanks so much for your continued support! Allen, so glad you like the page! What a beautiful photo of the Windsor Ruins. They're so haunting. Susannah and John's visit to them in the film is probably my favourite scene. Do they still stand? I'd love to visit someday if they do... Also, I just bought the novel for my Kindle. About to dive in now! :D

#32 of 556 OFFLINE   Mark Collins

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Posted January 20 2013 - 04:39 AM

Hey Andrew that will be long dive. You will be glad though when you hit the water and begin to swim. The book takes place on the 4th of July and ends there. The sound score is great too. I just finished Lincoln the book the movie is based on. I played the CD while reading the book.

#33 of 556 OFFLINE   Andrew Budgell

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Posted January 21 2013 - 07:11 AM

Thanks, Mark! I've read about 10% so far, and it's been sort of tedious, but I have no doubt it will get better. I'm just waiting for Susanna Drake to make her entrance! :D I've still got to get the soundtrack CD! It must have been a beautiful accompaniment while reading "Team of Rivals".

#34 of 556 OFFLINE   Mark Collins

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Posted January 26 2013 - 09:01 AM

Hi Andrew, yes it is a long book but if you stick with it you will not be sorry. I did enjoy reading Team of Rivals while I listened to Raintree soundtrack. I have two cd sets. Both of them are two disc sets. The last one is the best and even has words to Susanna's theme.

#35 of 556 OFFLINE   Andrew Budgell

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Posted January 27 2013 - 02:55 PM

Hi Mark! I'm about 1/5 of the way through the book now, and it's now starting to get quite interesting...

#36 of 556 OFFLINE   Nick*Z

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Posted January 31 2013 - 06:59 AM

I've never understood the overall fascination with Raintree County. It's what I would call an eloquent misfire. MGM was desperately trying to rekindle the magic of Gone With The Wind and spent a mint to bring it to the screen. It remained the most expensive movie ever produced in America for a good many years, but it sank like a stone at the box office. Don't get me wrong. I found the film interesting to a point. But it's hardly Elizabeth Taylor's best work or Monty Clift's either. I too would like to see National Velvet on Blu-ray. Taylor also shines bright in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, Giant, A Place in the Sun, Suddenly Last Summer, Father of the Bride, A Date with Judy, Ivanhoe, Butterfield 8 and Lassie Come Come. Any of these - but particularly the first four titles listed - should be candidates for release in 1080p hi-def long before Raintree gets even honorable mention. It's one of the ironies, I suppose, that yesterday's turkeys are getting the same consideration as their Rolls Royce counterparts. Honestly, I can't understand Sony giving the 1973 Lost Horizon a hi-def transfer before Frank Capra's infinitely more moody and fascinating 1937 original, but there it is. The stinker before the rose. In some cases I can see the logic - the 1937 original needing more extensive work (and therefore more money spent) to spruce up the elements, as opposed to the 73. But classic status I think ought to be observed first and foremost. What's a more important movie in Elizabeth Taylor's body of work - Raintree County or Giant? Which film has endured the test of time more - Raintree County or Cat on a Hot Tin Roof? In which film does Taylor give her most iconic performance: Raintree County or A Place in the Sun? Anyway, you get the picture - widescreen, no less. I just don't see Raintree being a contender among these varied other riches sorely absent on Blu-ray.
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#37 of 556 OFFLINE   RolandL

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Posted January 31 2013 - 07:44 AM

Some of the reasons why I think there is an interest in seeing this title released on Blu-ray: First movie filmed in the MGM Camera 65 widescreen process, with 2.76:1 aspect ratio. If it was released in 70mm, it would have had 6-track stereo sound. It was an epic film at 188 minutes for its road show engagements. It has never been released on video except for VHS tape.

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#38 of 556 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted January 31 2013 - 08:54 AM

What's a more important movie in Elizabeth Taylor's body of work - Raintree County or Giant? Which film has endured the test of time more - Raintree County or Cat on a Hot Tin Roof? In which film does Taylor give her most iconic performance: Raintree County or A Place in the Sun? Anyway, you get the picture - widescreen, no less. I just don't see Raintree being a contender among these varied other riches sorely absent on Blu-ray.

But all the films you named have a DVD release. Raintree has had only a VHS and Laser release. I would be happy or have been happy with just a DVD release, but now that the riches of Blu-ray are here then there should be a release in that format. In fact the Camera 65 process cries out for a Blu-Ray release.
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#39 of 556 OFFLINE   Robin9

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Posted January 31 2013 - 09:49 PM

I've never understood the overall fascination with Raintree County. It's what I would call an eloquent misfire.

There will be less fascination with Raintree County when people have seen it! The reason it holds a fascination for most people is precisely because they can't watch it! I quite like the film despite its failings and I would buy a BRD without hesitation, but most people today do not share my enthusiasm for sweeping romantic melodramas. Even Gone With The Wind gets a rough ride today.

#40 of 556 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted February 01 2013 - 12:19 AM

There will be less fascination with Raintree County when people have seen it! The reason it holds a fascination for most people is precisely because they can't watch it! I quite like the film despite its failings and I would buy a BRD without hesitation, but most people today do not share my enthusiasm for sweeping romantic melodramas. Even Gone With The Wind gets a rough ride today.

As a whole and on a large screen it holds up pretty well imo. It LOOKS fantastic and as you say sweeping melodramas are not the taste of the day but that can also work to its advantage.





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