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Whats hp doing with Palm WebOS?


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#1 of 40 Sam Posten

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Posted February 09 2011 - 02:41 PM

Will try to put better links up for the record, but this made me laugh:

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#2 of 40 Sam Posten

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Posted June 01 2011 - 03:56 AM

Leaky leaky:

http://www.crunchgea...nks-to-sandisk/


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#3 of 40 DaveF

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Posted June 04 2011 - 02:07 PM

Nice demo! Wonder if HP is going ballistic over SanDisk leaking this?


An oddity I saw: movies play upside down. It doubly apparent because the on-screen volume meter was upside to the movie display (the little music note icons were inverted).


I still don't get Synergy. Why do I want Facebook contacts integrated with my personal contacts? I guess I'm not SocialWeb2.0 enough for modern devices :)



#4 of 40 Sam Posten

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Posted June 30 2011 - 01:01 AM

Posted this in the fragmentation thread, but it doesn't sound like it's all that great: http://www.engadget....ouchpad-review/ http://thisismynext....ouchpad-review/ http://allthingsd.co...-to-rival-ipad/

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#5 of 40 Sam Posten

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Posted June 30 2011 - 03:26 AM

Jason Snell digs in: http://www.macworld....first_look.html

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#6 of 40 mattCR

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Posted June 30 2011 - 03:55 AM

HPs problem is the problem that everyone is having.   They are trying to play Apple's game, and that's a sure way to fail.  It doesn't matter what your OS is.


RIM played a different way, and to be honest, they should have waited a few months on their product, bt at least i getting vertical apps onboard that are exclusives, they tried to do something different that fills a (small) niche.   Microsoft with Windows8 is going to try a universal structure from end to end.       Both of these may be horrible failures or longterm success, it's hard to know yet (though RIM certainly shot themselves big by coming out early; I had two clients instantly adopt for a single app.. and today, that's still all they run n them, that one single app)


HP with WebOS and Google's Android/Honeycomb Tablet OS have just seemed like "blah".   There isn't a compelling reason for anyone to chose them over the ipad.   They have no exclusive single line app for the corporate market (like RIM) nor the promise of desktop portability of apps (like MS), and so, they remain tablet only OS items, and they work to try and do the exact same thing that Apple is doing..   When you're always playing catchup, yu never ever win the race.


I had made a commen I'd eat a straw hat the day HP mattered in the tablet race and I don't think I'm in any danger.   Android's problem is that unlike with phones, there isn't a compelling reason to buy for frequenly updated services or cool features or price or service.   If you're buying an Android pad, you're mostly doing it because you don't like Apple.  I have never played with a device that I thought was as problematic and clunky as the Xoom.  I haven't had a lot of time with the Galaxy Tab, so I can't comment there.


I think even HP gets this.   They've already been dropping some hints they are "considering" and "looking into" a Windows 8 tablet.

http://www.gottabemo...ejects-android/

http://www.winrumors...-despite-webos/


This shouldn't surprise anyone.  The reasoning for this is simple.  Android doesn't make hardware partners money.   And sometimes it's finnicky nature works against it.   Doubt it?   Acer is putting out their own chomebook (I'd have to find the engadget link) at $369,with a 16GB SSD, Instant on, and an Intel Atom.  Problem with that is that they put out a Windows 7 Starter Netbook for $249, or 2/3 the cost.  The cost difference is simple.   Acer can't offset some cost with partner offers, and the support required to come up with a rock stable implementation is more because that cost is on the hardware vendor, not Google... whereas Microsoft has always helped OEMs with some of the support costs


HP WebOS has a big, big problem in that HP is a huge IT and management company; one of the largest in the world.   But it is not a software design company.   It's ability to provide longterm support to this product is a hard battle.   That's why Nokia got out.  You might win a battle here and there, but fact is, Google, Apple, and Microsoft ARE companies packed with software engineers, and they can develop and support at a rate that will burn your R&D budget to the ground if you're a hardware design company.

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#7 of 40 DaveF

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Posted June 30 2011 - 05:55 AM



Originally Posted by mattCR 

HPs problem is the problem that everyone is having.   They are trying to play Apple's game, and that's a sure way to fail.  It doesn't matter what your OS is.

I'll disagree with this in that webOS looked to have its own, distinct design philosophy. It presented a different view of personal data than iOS did. It clearly had a different "user" in mind. I thought it posed a real alternative to the iPhone for those that wanted their mobile-data problems solved the webOS way more than the iOS way. (And this stood out against the me-too Android design, which appear more bland-photocopy of iOS than a coherent design concept.)


HP WebOS has a big, big problem in that HP is a huge IT and management company; one of the largest in the world.   But it is not a software design company. 

Yes, but the people behind webOS are (were?). HP bought the expertise to design and manage globally-distributed software for mobile platforms. But I guess that's your point: at the top, HP doesn't know what to do with such a group of people.



#8 of 40 Hanson

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Posted June 30 2011 - 07:24 AM

The Windows netbook vs Chromebook price difference appears to lie entirely in the specs.  Faster dual core processor, double the memory, SSD instead of HDD, higer res screen, and webcam.  In fact, for the extra $120, the Chromebook is a steal compared to the W7 netbook.


HP doesn't design software, which is why they bought Palm.  But then everyone there left.  So now they have the software, but without the people who designed it, it's just slapped on.


I do think that too many people are dismissing Flash out of hand.  There are a lot of reviews of the Galaxy S2 that comment on the excellent full speed, desktop like Flash playback on that device.  Pack the Exynos processor in a tablet, and that thing is going to deliver.  My sister's was very disappointed that her iPad2 couldn't play Flash videos.  She got over it, but that would have been a factor in her purchase if there was any sort of competent Android tablet available then.  Note that the Xoom couldn't even play Flash when it was released.  Then again, the Xoom had many more problems than just Flash.



#9 of 40 DaveF

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Posted June 30 2011 - 08:05 AM



Originally Posted by Hanson Yoo 
HP doesn't design software, which is why they bought Palm.  But then everyone there left.  So now they have the software, but without the people who designed it, it's just slapped on.

Hadn't heard there was talent flight after the acquisition.



Originally Posted by Hanson Yoo 

The Windows netbook vs Chromebook price difference appears to lie entirely in the specs.  Faster dual core processor, double the memory, SSD instead of HDD, higer res screen, and webcam.  In fact, for the extra $120, the Chromebook is a steal compared to the W7 netbook.

Still don't understand why anyone would pay $350 for a web browser.




#10 of 40 Hanson

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Posted June 30 2011 - 08:14 AM

It's a full fledged OS with apps and everything (including Angry Birds), but the interface is a browser window.


When you consider the purpose and utility of a netbook, the Chromebook can all those things.  Then again, so can my smartphone.  That's where I personally don't see the need.


After the acquisition by HP, the Palm people starting leaving in droves.  The biggest defector was Matias Duarte, the guy who designed the WebOS UI and moved to Google to create the UI for Honeycomb.



#11 of 40 mattCR

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Posted June 30 2011 - 08:46 AM



Originally Posted by Hanson Yoo 

The Windows netbook vs Chromebook price difference appears to lie entirely in the specs.  Faster dual core processor, double the memory, SSD instead of HDD, higer res screen, and webcam.  In fact, for the extra $120, the Chromebook is a steal compared to the W7 netbook.


HP doesn't design software, which is why they bought Palm.  But then everyone there left.  So now they have the software, but without the people who designed it, it's just slapped on.


I do think that too many people are dismissing Flash out of hand.  There are a lot of reviews of the Galaxy S2 that comment on the excellent full speed, desktop like Flash playback on that device.  Pack the Exynos processor in a tablet, and that thing is going to deliver.  My sister's was very disappointed that her iPad2 couldn't play Flash videos.  She got over it, but that would have been a factor in her purchase if there was any sort of competent Android tablet available then.  Note that the Xoom couldn't even play Flash when it was released.  Then again, the Xoom had many more problems than just Flash.


Yeah, no.   The Acer Chromebook is an Atom 570 with a 16GB SSD.     $369

The Acer netbook that is Atom 570 is a 250GB HDD @ $279,  So, not as big a drop as their cheaper N450.


But apples to apples, less the SSD.  And a 16GB SSD is not a $90 option.  In fact, for $90, I can get a 64GB SSD, just fine.. and since Google OS is supposedly free, and MS OS is $50 for the license, the difference is more then that.


It's hard for me to find spending $120 more for a similarly configured box that does considerably less a "good deal".     It has no CODEC support native, so you aren't watching any video content other then what's provided, you aren't installing any desktop level apps (which if you can't do that the laptop form factor is pointless) and you're on a platform that gets "eh" support.


I mean, I guess if I was a wild google fan, I'd snap at it.   But I never found myself saying on a netbook "my god!  I need a super tiny HDD for a machine that can't run apps but boots really fast to a webbrowser"    I can get a webbrowser on a phone.


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#12 of 40 DaveF

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Posted June 30 2011 - 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by mattCR 


I mean, I guess if I was a wild google fan, I'd snap at it.   But I never found myself saying on a netbook "my god!  I need a super tiny HDD for a machine that can't run apps but boots really fast to a webbrowser"    I can get a webbrowser on a phone.

"...that won't work when I'm on a plane!"


It's too bad HP lost its core webOS team. I really liked webOS as a potential competitor to iOS. It has some novel, smart thinking in it. It had a clear design intent; it was meant for particular and practical user needs. But they've failed to make it excellent at every effort. the phones were too slow, battery too small from the start. And the keyboards got very negative reactions. And now the tablet is immature compared to the iPad. Maybe HP will get it sorted, yet?



#13 of 40 Hanson

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Posted June 30 2011 - 09:08 AM

The W7 starter netbooks are slower than my phone.  And my phone has wireless data access.  So as I told Dave, I wouldn't purchase either for that reason.  I wouldn't value add $50 for the netbook because it has a W7 starter license -- with the kind of performance it achieves, I'd dock it $50 if anything.


No apps on Chrome, huh?  I guess the Chrome app store is big fat lie.





#14 of 40 mattCR

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Posted June 30 2011 - 12:30 PM

Let's say, no Apps that require a notebook format.   The netbook has always been an odd duck.   Here's the thing; on a Netbook, if I need it, I can at least carry with me base tools of the trade, so to speak.   What "apps" are there on a Chromebook that are more then you can grab on a tablet?   Not really anything.  And most of those are better on a tablet then on a netbook.


Both are network browsing devices, yes. 

http://www.nytimes.c...&pagewanted=all



The first assumption is that you’re online everywhere you go. That’s rather critical, because when it’s not online, a Chromebook can’t do much of anything. You can’t peruse your e-mail, read documents or books or listen to music. With very few exceptions, when the Chromebook isn’t online, it’s a 3.3-pound paperweight. (Google says that an upgrade this summer will at least permit you to read your e-mail, calendar and Google Docs when you’re offline, and that over time, more apps will be written to be offline-usable.)


Maybe in Silicon Valley, where Google’s engineers live, you can live your entire life online. But in the real world, you can use this laptop only where you can find, and afford, Wi-Fi hot spots. Or a Verizon cell signal, if you’ve bought the $500 Samsung model.


Verizon offers two years of free service with that model, but you’re capped at 100 megabytes of data a month — a laughably small quota for a laptop that can’t even scratch its nose without an Internet connection. You can upgrade: for example, 1 gigabyte of data for $20 a month, or 5 gigabytes for $50. At least no two-year contract is required.


I tried valiantly to use the Samsung as my main machine, but by the end of a week, I was about ready to toss it like a Frisbee.



The Chrome marketplace offers 1,000 Chrome programs. Most are free. But most are also lightweight, phone-type programs: weather, sports tickers and so on. They live online, so all you’re actually installing is a bookmark.



Originally Posted by Hanson Yoo 
No apps on Chrome, huh?  I guess the Chrome app store is big fat lie.




I looked through the Chrome App store.   I think you're doing it a great disservice calling it a Big Fat lie.   It may not be "big fat" but if you're judging it by "useful app" then I think "a farce" may be more correct in describing their app store ;)



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#15 of 40 Sam Posten

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Posted July 01 2011 - 04:11 AM

 

Still don't understand why anyone would pay $350 for a web browser.
 

You wanna know what the killer app is for the chromebook? People who want porn on the go, log into a fully anonymous web browser and then log out like they were never there. =)

Let me tell you why people bought chromebooks: porn. They can play flash, have a giant battery life, no viruses, free 3G, and no way to track history in incognito mode. :whiste:

http://forums.anandt.../t-2168973.html

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#16 of 40 Ken Chan

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Posted July 06 2011 - 09:21 AM

Still don't understand why anyone would pay $350 for a web browser.

I guess you missed my "less is more" post back on the Chromebook thread. Or maybe it was entirely unconvincing :)

"...that won't work when I'm on a plane!"

Some apps already work offline. The situation is improving with fits and starts. Of course some things don't work at all without a connection, but that applies to a "real computer" too.

#17 of 40 DaveF

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Posted July 10 2011 - 08:32 AM

JLG attempts to review HP's positioning and public statements of the TouchPad.

http://www.mondaynot...t=Google Reader


When asked about what took HP so long to come up with a tablet after Palm’s acquisition a year ago, the company’s CEO replied he wanted the TouchPad to be perfect when shipped. A friend sitting next to me in the audience turned and asked,sotto voce: ‘Why his he doing this to himself?’ And to his people, one might add. What is the benefit in setting up such a high bar?




#18 of 40 Sam Posten

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Posted July 12 2011 - 12:49 AM

Deep and even handed review, finds lots of room for improvement: http://shawnblanc.ne...ouchpad-review/ (Yes, via @gruber...)

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#19 of 40 Sam Posten

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Posted July 14 2011 - 01:40 PM

D0med. http://thisismynext....view-exclusive/

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#20 of 40 Sam Posten

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Posted August 05 2011 - 01:09 PM

Not a good sign:

HP TouchPad 9.7” 16GB Wi-Fi Tablet for $379.99 + $5 shipping http://t.co/VXLzJQ7 via @woot


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