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Looney Tunes Super Stars: Road Runner and Wile E. Coyote


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#1 of 33 ONLINE   Kevin L McCorry

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Posted January 27 2011 - 01:04 AM

I've seen the cartoon listings for this. As one who has supported Warners' decisions for the new range, albeit with some caveats, I have to ask, has Warners' completely gone loopy?!


I'm not the detractor of Larriva Road Runners that many other people are, but c'mon! Not a single pre-1964 Jones cartoon?! Web 'toons? Latter-day Jones and Larry Doyle? Much as I'd like pristine-looking DePatie-Freleng Road Runners, I can't support a release that has Web 'toons in its main selections. It's as if someone just said release them from the most current stuff going backward.



#2 of 33 OFFLINE   derosa

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Posted January 27 2011 - 02:38 AM

I don't get it, why that release before just doing sets of the Bugs Bunny/Road Runner hour?

I'd much rather have those shows redone, the way your history of the show has it explained

how they used to air.  Those are sets i'd buy!


Kevin wrote great write ups here:


http://looney.golden.../bbrrbroad.html


http://looney.golden...bbrr/index.html



#3 of 33 OFFLINE   Kevin Martinez

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Posted January 27 2011 - 03:11 AM

The amount of care Warner has put behind their Looney Tunes DVD's has slipped SO MUCH that made-for-tv shorts and WEBTOONS are being are being released as part of the main program. This is asisine.


They're restoring material for the WAC now. If that's the only remaining venue where these cartoons will be treated with a modicum of dignity, sign me up.




#4 of 33 OFFLINE   Joe*A

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Posted January 27 2011 - 04:43 AM

Is Warner gone completely daffy (pardon the pun)? They're releasing both the correct aspect ration for these shorts as well as a version to fit today's widescreen television sets. Here's a brain storm - release the shorts as they were created in the proper aspect ratio. So instead of adding a potential 30 shorts, they've included only 15 shorts with two different versions. Looney, looney, looney!!!


The days of the Golden Collections have gone by the way side. Too bad. :(


Has anyone checked to see what shorts are included in this release?



#5 of 33 OFFLINE   Kevin Martinez

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Posted January 27 2011 - 04:46 AM

It's on TVShowsonDVD. Basically, Rudy Larriva, 2-minute webtoons, cheap-looking made-for-TV shorts, and 1990's revival shorts that are mostly double-dips.


This is probably another casuality of WB's gutting of their movie divison; they lost control of the LT's and now we have to put up with this half-assed garbage.



#6 of 33 OFFLINE   Joe Tor1

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Posted January 27 2011 - 05:57 AM

I would hope that all the persons in previous threads, who wanted Looney Tunes complete, are not going to complain about getting Rudy Larriva Road Runners.  That IS part of “complete”. 


I’m actually glad to see them, but I DO draw the line at “webtoons”… if that’s what were getting as some of the “unfamiliar” titles I’ve seen listed.  Is this true? 


I’m also glad to see McKimson’s “Sugar and Spies”, which I believe may have been the last original Road Runner cartoon.  It had a good score to it… “good” for the later period, at least.  Nicely sixties-sounding.


Still, I’ll join my fellow posters in saying that Warners was once the BEST at animation DVDs, and now they’re the WORST! 



#7 of 33 ONLINE   Kevin L McCorry

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Posted January 27 2011 - 08:24 AM

Profound thanks, derosa! I so rarely get any positive feedback on those pages. By the way, they're most up to date here:


http://kevinmccorryt...bs.com/bbrr.htm


A DVD release of The Bugs Bunny/Road Runner Hour is one of my most fervent wishes. I share your sentiment on that. I suspect a lot of the elements for a restoration do still exist, but the way things are currently going @ Warners', it's a pipe dream. Best I've been able to do is a BB/RR reconstruction of my own, and all the Larriva Road Runners are in it. I was hoping to get some Jones Road Runners not in the BB/RR Hour. But looks like even that'll just never happen.






Originally Posted by derosa 

I don't get it, why that release before just doing sets of the Bugs Bunny/Road Runner hour?

I'd much rather have those shows redone, the way your history of the show has it explained

how they used to air.  Those are sets i'd buy!


Kevin wrote great write ups here:


http://looney.golden.../bbrrbroad.html


http://looney.golden...bbrr/index.html





#8 of 33 ONLINE   Gary Seven

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Posted January 27 2011 - 10:20 AM

While I do remember and like the theme song for the BB/RR hour, as I recall, this show was nothing more than the theatrical release shorts cut and editted for the shows time and presentation.  I would prefer these shorts uneditted and presented as originally shown.  I am fortunate that in additon to the great DVDs WB released in the past (those GREAT six sets) I also possess the golden age LD box sets and the various LDs that were released in the 90s (not restored but they still look nice).  However, if WB were to resume releassing these shorts as they did with the six sets, I would resume purchasing.  As it stands now, I will not be purchasing this DVD or any other in the future based on the last few released.


Well, I just checked out your link there, Kevin, so you know this.  It seems the only thing to get out of the show then is the theme song and the wrap arounds.  While I might rent this for nostalgia sake, I would prefer the shorts presented uncut and original for purchase.



#9 of 33 OFFLINE   derosa

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Posted January 27 2011 - 11:48 AM



Originally Posted by Gary Seven 

While I do remember and like the theme song for the BB/RR hour, as I recall, this show was nothing more than the theatrical release shorts cut and editted for the shows time and presentation.  I would prefer these shorts uneditted and presented as originally shown.  I am fortunate that in additon to the great DVDs WB released in the past (those GREAT six sets) I also possess the golden age LD box sets and the various LDs that were released in the 90s (not restored but they still look nice).  However, if WB were to resume releassing these shorts as they did with the six sets, I would resume purchasing.  As it stands now, I will not be purchasing this DVD or any other in the future based on the last few released.


Well, I just checked out your link there, Kevin, so you know this.  It seems the only thing to get out of the show then is the theme song and the wrap arounds.  While I might rent this for nostalgia sake, I would prefer the shorts presented uncut and original for purchase.


Question for you Gary...   how have you watched the golden collection dvds?

Do you sit down and pick some specific shorts to watch, or just start a disc and play?

I'm curious, because I often find that watching shorts is not that interesting, unless

there is some format that makes it into a viewing experince like a "show".

Do you know what i mean?




#10 of 33 OFFLINE   derosa

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Posted January 27 2011 - 11:59 AM

My pleasure Kevin, thanks for the hard work of putting it all together!

Sorry to hear about your mother passing last year, that must have been a rough time.

We always have the choice to start a new path for our lives, the future is out there,

you'll find a way to contribute, I'm sure of that.



Originally Posted by Kevin L McCorry 

Profound thanks, derosa! I so rarely get any positive feedback on those pages. By the way, they're most up to date here:


http://kevinmccorryt...bs.com/bbrr.htm


A DVD release of The Bugs Bunny/Road Runner Hour is one of my most fervent wishes. I share your sentiment on that. I suspect a lot of the elements for a restoration do still exist, but the way things are currently going @ Warners', it's a pipe dream. Best I've been able to do is a BB/RR reconstruction of my own, and all the Larriva Road Runners are in it. I was hoping to get some Jones Road Runners not in the BB/RR Hour. But looks like even that'll just never happen.





#11 of 33 OFFLINE   BobO'Link

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Posted January 27 2011 - 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Gary Seven 

While I do remember and like the theme song for the BB/RR hour, as I recall, this show was nothing more than the theatrical release shorts cut and editted for the shows time and presentation.  I would prefer these shorts uneditted and presented as originally shown...It seems the only thing to get out of the show then is the theme song and the wrap arounds.  While I might rent this for nostalgia sake, I would prefer the shorts presented uncut and original for purchase.


I'm with you, Gary Seven.  I watched most of the LT shorts on afternoon TV *uncut* and without the wrap-arounds.  While I *did* watch the BB/RR hour it was only for the toons as I did not then, nor now, like the filler bits.  I always felt the filler bits were rather lame and terribly unfunny - yes, I felt that way as a young 'un.


Originally Posted by derosa 


Question for you Gary...   how have you watched the golden collection dvds?

Do you sit down at pick some specific shorts to watch, or just start a disc and play?

I'm curious, because I often find that watching shorts is not that interesting, unless

there is some format that makes it into a viewing experince like a "show".

Do you know what i mean?




I can't speak for Gary but I own them all and will start a disc and watch all the way through.  Sometimes I'll watch a select few shorts, but I don't need the "show" format to enjoy 'em.  IMHO the "show" format is just so much filler.  But I don't much care for "variety" type shows which the BB/RR show was emulating.



#12 of 33 OFFLINE   JoeDoakes

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Posted January 27 2011 - 01:19 PM



I know at least one GC had the original beginning as an extra feature.  It might be nice if they could include the wraparounds as a set up option for when you hit the play all button.

Originally Posted by Gary Seven 

While I do remember and like the theme song for the BB/RR hour, as I recall, this show was nothing more than the theatrical release shorts cut and editted for the shows time and presentation.  I would prefer these shorts uneditted and presented as originally shown.  I am fortunate that in additon to the great DVDs WB released in the past (those GREAT six sets) I also possess the golden age LD box sets and the various LDs that were released in the 90s (not restored but they still look nice).  However, if WB were to resume releassing these shorts as they did with the six sets, I would resume purchasing.  As it stands now, I will not be purchasing this DVD or any other in the future based on the last few released.


Well, I just checked out your link there, Kevin, so you know this.  It seems the only thing to get out of the show then is the theme song and the wrap arounds.  While I might rent this for nostalgia sake, I would prefer the shorts presented uncut and original for purchase.





#13 of 33 ONLINE   Kevin L McCorry

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Posted January 27 2011 - 11:25 PM

Thanks for the kind words of sympathy and encouragement, derosa! The death of a parent is something we all expect to have to deal with and live through, but the reality of it is much worse than the expectation. Almost 11 months later, and I still have dreams of her being alive and with us, only to wake up and find that she's not. Her last days and last words to me are what I remember most.


As regards the BB/RR Hour's distinctive qualities, Gary Seven, it extends beyond just the intros and extros and a few bumpers. The cartoon title cards, the stage scenes, the Road Runner interstitials, are all part and parcel of the experience of watching it. Personally, I prefer the cartoon titles of the BB/RR Hour and even those of Bugs & Tweety Show. They're stylized and quick. I don't want to sit through the same 20-25-second Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies intros time and time again, and I know who directed which cartoons. But the biggest thing for me, as derosa alluded to, is the cartoon arrangement in the episodes. That's how I like to view them. A Bugs Bunny and then a Tweety and then a Road Runner, and then another Bugs, a Foghorn, a Sylvester and/or Tweety or another Bugs Bunny, and finally a Road Runner. Possibly a one-shot (e.g. "One Froggy Evening") or a Daffy or a Hippety Hopper, or a Pepe mixed in. And with subtle motifs or theme links to the cartoons. How the cartoons were assembled interests me as much as the cartoons itself. And underpinning it all is the nostalgia factor, which for me is immense. Though I did see some of the weekday presentations of cartoons, the Saturday morning (or in Canada, Saturday afternoon/evening) format was king. Just about all of the A-cartoons were to be found there and there alone. Most of the Tweetys. Most of the Road Runners. Bugs' most famous 'toons. The definitive Foghorn Leghorns. And although the Daffys were fewer, what Daffys there were, were the essential ones ("Duck Amuck", "Stupor Duck", "Robin Hood Daffy", "Golden Yeggs", etc..) Of course, the later editing of the cartoons took a lot of the experience away, but I still watched.

And therefore, when I want to watch Warner Bros. cartoons, I reach for my BB/RR Hour reconstructions, inferior picture and sound quality and all. They have the intros, the ending credits, the Part 2 introduction, many of the BB/RR Hour cartoon title cards, and the cartoons presented in the order I most fondly remember. "Hyde and Go Tweet" coming after "Bully For Bugs". "Dr. Jerkyl's Hide" coming after "Robot Rabbit". "Hare-Less Wolf" coming after "Wild and Woolly Hare". "Hot Cross Bunny" and then "Muzzle Tough". "Hopalong Casualty" coming after "Bonanza Bunny", "Tugboat Granny", and "The Dixie Fryer". And so on. By the way, how many of these cartoons I've just mentioned are on DVD in the GC or SS range? Only one. "Bully For Bugs".


Only if I want to watch non-BB/RR cartoons will I reach for the GCs, and even then, I never watch a GC or LT Super Stars disc from beginning to end. Like derosa, I jump around. Did that with the first GC volume and still do to this day. And I never watch the '30s cartoons in the GCs. They're so different they're almost from another studio. While I can see some wisdom in the packaging of cartoons per character, it doesn't feel right. Which is why I'll not sit and watch a disc filled with Speedy Gonzales or Foghorn Leghorn or Road Runner. Tweety is a bit different because the settings and situations change. Same with Bugs. I can take a few more cartoons in a row with them. But the experience is at odds with how I was weaned on the cartoons.  

But getting back to the subject of this thread. Web 'toons on the disc passed off as main cartoon selections. I can't support that. And the total omission of classic era (pre-1964) cartoon shorts is a first. No way is that getting any business from me. Must admit when I saw the cartoon list, I thought it was a spoof list. Someone having a joke. And when I read that it was the real thing, I was in shock.


Sticking Web 'toons on a disc and calling them classics?! Just unbelievable!



#14 of 33 OFFLINE   Kevin Martinez

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Posted January 28 2011 - 02:15 AM

Warner has dragged the quality of their Looney Tunes releases to beneath even the low standards of their Tom and Jerry sets, and you guys are bickering over the Bugs Bunny freakin' Road Runner show? That's not even not seeing the forest for the trees.


This is the middle finger WB's Family Divison always wanted to give LT fans, but couldn't until now. What would it take for George Feltenstein's camp to wrestle back jurisdiction over the LT's (even if its just remastered DVD's via the Archive) and fight back against this inanity?



#15 of 33 OFFLINE   DeWilson

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Posted January 28 2011 - 05:01 AM

I wouldn't mind seeing the TV presentations restored for the sake of the new material/wrap-arounds,etc - It's all part of the LT/MM history. Even if most of the existing material is only in B&W.


#16 of 33 OFFLINE   derosa

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Posted January 28 2011 - 05:27 AM



Originally Posted by Kevin L McCorry 


As regards the BB/RR Hour's distinctive qualities, it extends beyond just the intros and extros and a few bumpers. The cartoon title cards, the stage scenes, the Road Runner interstitials, are all part and parcel of the experience of watching it. Personally, I prefer the cartoon titles of the BB/RR Hour and even those of Bugs & Tweety Show. They're stylized and quick. .... But the biggest thing for me, as derosa alluded to, is the cartoon arrangement in the episodes. That's how I like to view them. A Bugs Bunny and then a Tweety and then a Road Runner, and then another Bugs, a Foghorn, a Sylvester and/or Tweety or another Bugs Bunny, and finally a Road Runner. Possibly a one-shot (e.g. "One Froggy Evening") or a Daffy or a Hippety Hopper, or a Pepe mixed in. And with subtle motifs or theme links to the cartoons. How the cartoons were assembled interests me as much as the cartoons itself. And underpinning it all is the nostalgia factor, which for me is immense.


I completely agree, the arrangement is what makes it more enjoyable for me to watch any compilation or anthology show.

The same goes for shows like the Archie's Comedy Hour, Scooby's All Star Laff-a-Lympics, the All New Superfriends hour.

Watching just the shorts in a row is not that interesting for me, it works much better in my opinion as a whole show.


Aside from great memories of Saturday morning cartoons, I loved watching the Sunday afternoon showings of the BB/RR hour

on Global TV in Toronto during the mid to late 70s.  Great times!


g




#17 of 33 ONLINE   Kevin L McCorry

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Posted January 29 2011 - 12:28 AM

Yes, derosa, for many of us, the Canadian TV broadcast of BB/RR was our only serving of Bugs and the gang for a whole week. We didn't get Global in my part of the country. So, when the CBC dropped the show in '75, that was that- until cable TV and CBS became available. Many of the people I grew up with regard the BB/RR Hour as the definitive Looney Tunes package.

And in regards to a comment above, discussion of BB/RR Hour vs. bundles of cartoon shorts is relevant to discussion of this release. If Warner Brothers had thought more in terms of the portion of its viewership that was weaned on the Saturday morning show, the Golden Collection sets might have sold better. Actually, it's not a question of might. I know of people who stopped buying precisely because the Golden Collections weren't their cup of tea, both because of the jarring vintage range of cartoons in the sets and how the cartoons were distributed across the sets. And when we got a bone thrown our way in the Saturday Morning Cartoons sets, despite fairly good sales, Warner dropped the range.


I'm sick and tired of the economy argument. If the BBC can continue releasing Doctor Who with expensive restoration work, and to a market arguably smaller than that of Looney Tunes, so can Warner. The Super Stars discs could have been a good follow-up to the GCs but Warner has kept taking the lazy way out, culminating in this big cheater disc. The most offensive things to me are the Web 'toons and the Larry Doyle and 1990s/2000s Jones cartoons. If the balance of the Larriva cartoons plus "Rushing Roulette" were on the disc instead, I'd buy it. Grudgingly because of the lack of any pre-1964 material, but I'd still buy it.





Originally Posted by derosa 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin L McCorry 


As regards the BB/RR Hour's distinctive qualities, it extends beyond just the intros and extros and a few bumpers. The cartoon title cards, the stage scenes, the Road Runner interstitials, are all part and parcel of the experience of watching it. Personally, I prefer the cartoon titles of the BB/RR Hour and even those of Bugs & Tweety Show. They're stylized and quick. .... But the biggest thing for me, as derosa alluded to, is the cartoon arrangement in the episodes. That's how I like to view them. A Bugs Bunny and then a Tweety and then a Road Runner, and then another Bugs, a Foghorn, a Sylvester and/or Tweety or another Bugs Bunny, and finally a Road Runner. Possibly a one-shot (e.g. "One Froggy Evening") or a Daffy or a Hippety Hopper, or a Pepe mixed in. And with subtle motifs or theme links to the cartoons. How the cartoons were assembled interests me as much as the cartoons itself. And underpinning it all is the nostalgia factor, which for me is immense.


I completely agree, the arrangement is what makes it more enjoyable for me to watch any compilation or anthology show.

The same goes for shows like the Archie's Comedy Hour, Scooby's All Star Laff-a-Lympics, the All New Superfriends hour.

Watching just the shorts in a row is not that interesting for me, it works much better in my opinion as a whole show.


Aside from great memories of Saturday morning cartoons, I loved watching the Sunday afternoon showings of the BB/RR hour

on Global TV in Toronto during the mid to late 70s.  Great times!


g






#18 of 33 OFFLINE   Mark Y

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Posted January 29 2011 - 09:25 AM

First, to Kevin -- my condolences on the loss of your mother. (Not being able to come up with anything that seems meaningful, I'll leave it at that for now, but know you're not alone in this.)


I also wanted to say thanks for your great site, I have gone there for reference many times.


I also share Kevin's experience of watching the BB/RR Saturday morning shows, and he hit the nail right on the head -- they seemed like the "definitive" showcase for the Warner Bros. cartoons back then, and they did have what I and my friends generally considered the "best" ones -- all the show elements were part of the presentation, and the "This Is It" intro was so essential that I was practically scandalized when they changed it to something else, even though I was almost out of high school then. We also had the pre-1948s and various other WB cartoons on one of our local stations during the week, but the Saturday morning presentation seemed like "the real deal." I also remember comic books featuring the Warner characters as a kid -- I enjoyed them, but Bugs Bunny had his own comic, Daffy Duck had his own, Tweety & Sylvester had one, etc., and I remember not really enjoying that presentation too much. At some point I discovered there was also a "Looney Tunes" comic which featured a variety of characters in the same issue and I enjoyed it much more (even though it was more of the same, just mixed up a little) -- I think that's also the first place I ever saw characters like Cool Cat and wondered who he was.


I don't know what to make of this new Road Runner DVD -- but remember that the initial content listings for a lot of these kinds of DVD releases end up being wrong, or changed before they see release. Personally, I would have been OK with whatever they wanted to include, as long as it's not double-dipped -- but yes, that lineup seems pretty lame. I would have much preferred if they would have just picked up after the Road Runner cartoons which already have been released, even if it ended up being mostly Rudy Larriva ones. They're not "the best" or everyone's favorites, but they are part of the canon -- and they were a big part of the Bugs Bunny/Road Runner Saturday morning experience.


I also want to say I am very grateful to have the Golden Collections. With the exception of most of the "bonus" cartoons on the last one, I never thought I'd see these films so beautifully restored (particularly the pre-1948s). With over 1000 cartoons, there's no way to try putting it all out in a format that will please everyone, but I'm glad to have what I have!



#19 of 33 OFFLINE   Kevin Martinez

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Posted January 29 2011 - 11:36 AM



Originally Posted by Kevin L McCorry  I'm sick and tired of the economy argument. If the BBC can continue releasing Doctor Who with expensive restoration work, and to a market arguably smaller than that of Looney Tunes, so can Warner. The Super Stars discs could have been a good follow-up to the GCs but Warner has kept taking the lazy way out, culminating in this big cheater disc.



I agree with you fully, for what seems like the first time ever.. Or hell, look at how Shout Factory regularly pays what must be tens of thousands of dollars and spend months placating apathetic or hostile copyright holders for those MST3K boxsets, and yet we're about to receive a DVD set of those Gamera films we were explicitly told would never see the light of day in MST3K form. Or look at how Fox bit the bullet and cleared every last piece of music of every last season of Ally McBeal in on go, and that was a show never released on DVD before and had been out of the public mainstream for years and years.


Yet WB can't be bothered to do something constructive with their own stupid cartoon library?



#20 of 33 ONLINE   Kevin L McCorry

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Posted January 30 2011 - 12:51 AM

Thanks, Mark! Your condolences and kind words are greatly appreciated! As are your thanks and praise for the Website!


I, too, preferred the Gold Key Looney Tunes comic series to the ones for Bugs, Tweety & Sylvester, Yosemite Sam, Porky Pig, Daffy Duck, etc.. It felt more like the show format. First a Bugs, then a Daffy, then a Tweety, etc.. For some reason, the powers-that-be at Warners have almost always preferred to organize releases by character. The very first VHS releases had the ensemble format, and some of the LDs did. Of course, that was back when neither of those formats were mass market (LD never was so). We don't know for certain how such a release would sell on DVD, but I suspect that if it was given a Bugs Bunny/Road Runner Show or Bugs Bunny & Tweety title, it would fare better than just Looney Tunes. Provided of course that Warners would exercise diligence and aesthetic sense in selecting cartoons. Not just piling on the most recent stuff to save money on restoration. I wish the list for this DVD was only tentative, but all indications are it's final.


I may eventually buy it, but the Web 'toons and latter-day stuff shouldn't be main program features. No way!

Originally Posted by Mark Y 

First, to Kevin -- my condolences on the loss of your mother. (Not being able to come up with anything that seems meaningful, I'll leave it at that for now, but know you're not alone in this.)


I also wanted to say thanks for your great site, I have gone there for reference many times.


I also share Kevin's experience of watching the BB/RR Saturday morning shows, and he hit the nail right on the head -- they seemed like the "definitive" showcase for the Warner Bros. cartoons back then, and they did have what I and my friends generally considered the "best" ones -- all the show elements were part of the presentation, and the "This Is It" intro was so essential that I was practically scandalized when they changed it to something else, even though I was almost out of high school then. We also had the pre-1948s and various other WB cartoons on one of our local stations during the week, but the Saturday morning presentation seemed like "the real deal." I also remember comic books featuring the Warner characters as a kid -- I enjoyed them, but Bugs Bunny had his own comic, Daffy Duck had his own, Tweety & Sylvester had one, etc., and I remember not really enjoying that presentation too much. At some point I discovered there was also a "Looney Tunes" comic which featured a variety of characters in the same issue and I enjoyed it much more (even though it was more of the same, just mixed up a little) -- I think that's also the first place I ever saw characters like Cool Cat and wondered who he was.


I don't know what to make of this new Road Runner DVD -- but remember that the initial content listings for a lot of these kinds of DVD releases end up being wrong, or changed before they see release. Personally, I would have been OK with whatever they wanted to include, as long as it's not double-dipped -- but yes, that lineup seems pretty lame. I would have much preferred if they would have just picked up after the Road Runner cartoons which already have been released, even if it ended up being mostly Rudy Larriva ones. They're not "the best" or everyone's favorites, but they are part of the canon -- and they were a big part of the Bugs Bunny/Road Runner Saturday morning experience.


I also want to say I am very grateful to have the Golden Collections. With the exception of most of the "bonus" cartoons on the last one, I never thought I'd see these films so beautifully restored (particularly the pre-1948s). With over 1000 cartoons, there's no way to try putting it all out in a format that will please everyone, but I'm glad to have what I have!









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