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#41 of 1564 tbaio

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Posted December 26 2010 - 07:23 AM

Ferngully.....good catch.  It would not surprize me if that film was another inspiration for Avatar.  If one were to dig further, I bet other titles would come up as well.  And then again, I think that is the case for most if not all movies.


#42 of 1564 TravisR

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Posted December 26 2010 - 08:09 AM

Never say never but I think any similarities between Fern Gully and Avatar are coincidental. I know he's got a kid or two but I just find it hard to believe that he's even seen an obscure cartoon from 20 years ago let alone is 'borrowing' from it.



#43 of 1564 tbaio

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Posted December 26 2010 - 09:31 AM

I do agree that the similarities between Ferngully & Avatar can be coincidential; absolutely.  As for doubting that Cameron has seen Ferngully, I don't think that's impossible at all. Directors watch movies as well as make them.  In fact, I think they watch more movies than the average movie fan does. They get their ideas from numerous sources (books, foreign movies, cartoons, documentaries, word of mouth, dreams, songs, real life experiences, etc).  Cameron is a huge sci-fi fan & what better source to tell a sci-fi story than through drawings in either a comic book or a cartoon?  It is very possible that he saw Ferngully.  Also, he's in his mid 50's.  When Ferngully came out (1992) he could have easily seen it.

I don't mean to make claims of a rip-off here, but there is no doubt (at least to me) that he was inspired by Dances With Wolves.  And so was Edward Zwick for The Last Samurai.  Again, it does not matter though because many directors/writers get their ideas from other movies.  I loved both Cliffhanger & the first Under Siege which were clearly made because of Die Hard.



#44 of 1564 dana martin

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Posted December 26 2010 - 02:13 PM

ok, when avatar came out my son who is now 22, said it was ferngully, the faries are the na'vid, there is the tree of life, the loggers are the army, really a lot of similarties,both are fox titles the bat (robin williams) could be the Sigourney Weaver  role


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#45 of 1564 TravisR

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Posted December 26 2010 - 02:59 PM

Maybe I'm wrong but I can't believe that that many people, outside of children under the age of 10 in 1992, saw or remember Fern Gully. The similar elements are obvious enough to come up with separately.



#46 of 1564 dana martin

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Posted December 26 2010 - 03:27 PM

well imitation is the best form of flattery, if it gets people interested in a good family film or animation, i am happy, well it's not don bluth but it is still good for that time, but it always happens that way seven samurai/ magnificent seven


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#47 of 1564 AlexS2

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Posted December 26 2010 - 04:18 PM

Id never even heard of Ferngully and I was a kid when it supposedly came out.


The Avatar comparison that is the most bunk is the Pocahontas one, as you can trace back the inspirations pretty clearly, like John Carter of Mars, and other Burroughs stories, and this is freely admitted by Cameron. In fact id say the clearest analogue that Cameron was aiming for with Avatar was a Burroughs type epic.


But hey, one of the first things that Cameron ever said about Avatar before showing even a single image of the film to the public was that the film was the melting pot of all the books and stories he absorbed throughout his life, but some people still seem to think they are clever by pointing out the movies inspirations. So, yeah, whatever helps the detractors feel superior, in the end it still won't change what an incredible cinematic feat the film is. Titanic went through the same bull as well, but in the end that changed nothing, to this day its still one of the most impressive productions of all time, the likes of which no other modern director could ever achieve.



#48 of 1564 Will_B

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Posted December 26 2010 - 07:25 PM

Harlan Ellison must be furious he never wrote a children's story that he could claim Cameron stole from.


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#49 of 1564 tbaio

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Posted December 27 2010 - 01:51 AM

I totally agree here again.  No matter where the inspiration for the story came from, Avatar is a great movie period.  And its one hell of an awesome Blu ray disc!  I don't think the 3-D version is going to improve on (in my opinion) an already perfect reference quality disc.  But, I guess we'll find out about that eventually. 


#50 of 1564 Steve Christou

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Posted December 27 2010 - 03:22 AM

The storyline to the animated sci-fi movie Battle for Terra (2007) has similarities to Avatar too -



Earthforces plan to terraform alien planet Terra (wink), human hero in sympathy with alien race, joins them to fight off Earth invaders.


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#51 of 1564 tbaio

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Posted December 27 2010 - 06:38 AM



Originally Posted by dana martin 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas in CT 

Hey folks!  Santa has an announcement to make, so listen up!  There will be no House of Wax or Dial M for Murder or Kiss Me Kate waiting under the tree for you to enjoy on those expensive 3-D systems you invested in this year.  No sir.  Here's what you're getting, and you'd better by God like it...

Ye Olde Yule Log Now Blazes in 3-D


http://www.nytimes.c...ion/24yule.html



and that is what is wrong with the current trend in 3D entertainment, a continuous spate of stuff that really isn't watchable, or the rush to go in and do a post conversion that doesn't do any thing for the film, i know or have heard the rumblings of Lucas wanting to do this to star wars, hey George i want the original trilogy as originally shown first, OK, not the special editions, the original trilogy, hell all three cuts work.


now for what all the studios havent figured out, it's called catalog titles, the films that people have known for years, that were originally shot with 3D in mind, Creature From The Black Lagoon, House Of Wax, Dial M, Friday The 13th Part 3D, yes i know that one is out, but, its not in this new 3D format,  The thing is IF all of the studios who are wanting to push this new and more expensive format along with the manufacturing industry,  are really looking for this to work, along with the advancement of having this and not needing glasses in the future, well then it is going to need the titles that people are going to watch, http://en.wikipedia....E2.80.931955.29 ,  is a decent primer of what we could be seeing, lets see Hondo in 3D, all of the studios need to take this to heart, Hitchcock, Dial M, in 3D i say yes day one purchase,  but if it was original shot flat, and is just a conversion to refresh the title, they can keep it,


Great wiki list of 3-D films; thanks for including that link for everyone.  I hope the list of upcoming 3-D films for 2011 & on are up to par because they are going to determine the future of getting 3-D into consumer's homes for viewing.


 Not to be a stickler here, but if you happen to come upon the blu ray for Friday the 13th Part 3-D at a good price, pick it up.  Yes, you'll have to put up with the old blue & red glasses & the picture quality is overall bad, but the 3-D quality makes up for all the shortcomings. I can't stress enough at how surprized I was at the quality of the images. This is good stuff; & in addition, it can be shown to anyone with a regular blu ray player so those without a player made for 3-D can enjoy it as well.  If you're able to see it, post a comment & let us know what you thought of it. 


#52 of 1564 AlexS2

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Posted December 27 2010 - 10:10 AM



Originally Posted by Steve Christou 

The storyline to the animated sci-fi movie Battle for Terra (2007) has similarities to Avatar too -



Earthforces plan to terraform alien planet Terra (wink), human hero in sympathy with alien race, joins them to fight off Earth invaders.


Well Avatar was written 13 years before that movie ever came out, the Avatar script even predates The Last Samurai. It just goes to show that the story trope is universal, and many, many people have fished from that pond, but in the end what matters is how these stories are executed and presented.



#53 of 1564 Johnny Angell

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Posted December 27 2010 - 10:13 AM



Originally Posted by AlexS2 

Id never even heard of Ferngully and I was a kid when it supposedly came out.


The Avatar comparison that is the most bunk is the Pocahontas one, as you can trace back the inspirations pretty clearly, like John Carter of Mars, and other Burroughs stories, and this is freely admitted by Cameron. In fact id say the clearest analogue that Cameron was aiming for with Avatar was a Burroughs type epic.


But hey, one of the first things that Cameron ever said about Avatar before showing even a single image of the film to the public was that the film was the melting pot of all the books and stories he absorbed throughout his life, but some people still seem to think they are clever by pointing out the movies inspirations. So, yeah, whatever helps the detractors feel superior, in the end it still won't change what an incredible cinematic feat the film is. Titanic went through the same bull as well, but in the end that changed nothing, to this day its still one of the most impressive productions of all time, the likes of which no other modern director could ever achieve.


If I had an buck for every time I've read a review of a singer, an author, at poet, a playwright, a film maker detailing how they were influenced by the works of others, I'd be a rich man.  Creative thought does not happen in a vacuum (except for maybe the first guy who created the shadow of his hand on a cave wall).  It's one thing to dislike a film because it doesn't appeal to you, but to criticize it because another work of art already contains elements of the later film, I think that's bogus.  Now if you think the earlier film did it better, that's different.


Frankly, I hope there are more films, or books, plays concerning one civilization raping another.  It's a valid subject to pursue.


BTW, that guy Shakespeare was always borrowing plots.




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#54 of 1564 Douglas Monce

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Posted December 27 2010 - 10:22 AM

I got around to watching Avatar on blu-ray last week. I must say that I found the writing typical of Cameron, in that all the characters talk with the same voice. Cameron has never been good at writing people who are unique, and everyone ends up sounding like a truck driver.


The digital animation and backgrounds were terribly unconvincing I thought. It felt like watching a Pixar movie and was particularly jarring when cutting back and forth with the live action. It probably would have been fine if everything were digital, but the live action makes the comparison pretty obvious


I also found the story line to be insulting to my intelligence.


Doug


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#55 of 1564 AlexS2

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Posted December 27 2010 - 12:11 PM



Originally Posted by Johnny Angell 



Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexS2 

Id never even heard of Ferngully and I was a kid when it supposedly came out.


The Avatar comparison that is the most bunk is the Pocahontas one, as you can trace back the inspirations pretty clearly, like John Carter of Mars, and other Burroughs stories, and this is freely admitted by Cameron. In fact id say the clearest analogue that Cameron was aiming for with Avatar was a Burroughs type epic.


But hey, one of the first things that Cameron ever said about Avatar before showing even a single image of the film to the public was that the film was the melting pot of all the books and stories he absorbed throughout his life, but some people still seem to think they are clever by pointing out the movies inspirations. So, yeah, whatever helps the detractors feel superior, in the end it still won't change what an incredible cinematic feat the film is. Titanic went through the same bull as well, but in the end that changed nothing, to this day its still one of the most impressive productions of all time, the likes of which no other modern director could ever achieve.


If I had an buck for every time I've read a review of a singer, an author, at poet, a playwright, a film maker detailing how they were influenced by the works of others, I'd be a rich man.  Creative thought does not happen in a vacuum (except for maybe the first guy who created the shadow of his hand on a cave wall).  It's one thing to dislike a film because it doesn't appeal to you, but to criticize it because another work of art already contains elements of the later film, I think that's bogus.  Now if you think the earlier film did it better, that's different.


Frankly, I hope there are more films, or books, plays concerning one civilization raping another.  It's a valid subject to pursue.


BTW, that guy Shakespeare was always borrowing plots.




There are already countless movies of Alien empires raping our civilization, its only fair we finally turn the tables, heh



#56 of 1564 dana martin

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Posted December 27 2010 - 12:42 PM



Originally Posted by tbaio 



Quote:
Originally Posted by dana martin 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas in CT 

Hey folks!  Santa has an announcement to make, so listen up!  There will be no House of Wax or Dial M for Murder or Kiss Me Kate waiting under the tree for you to enjoy on those expensive 3-D systems you invested in this year.  No sir.  Here's what you're getting, and you'd better by God like it...

Ye Olde Yule Log Now Blazes in 3-D


http://www.nytimes.c...ion/24yule.html



and that is what is wrong with the current trend in 3D entertainment, a continuous spate of stuff that really isn't watchable, or the rush to go in and do a post conversion that doesn't do any thing for the film, i know or have heard the rumblings of Lucas wanting to do this to star wars, hey George i want the original trilogy as originally shown first, OK, not the special editions, the original trilogy, hell all three cuts work.


now for what all the studios havent figured out, it's called catalog titles, the films that people have known for years, that were originally shot with 3D in mind, Creature From The Black Lagoon, House Of Wax, Dial M, Friday The 13th Part 3D, yes i know that one is out, but, its not in this new 3D format,  The thing is IF all of the studios who are wanting to push this new and more expensive format along with the manufacturing industry,  are really looking for this to work, along with the advancement of having this and not needing glasses in the future, well then it is going to need the titles that people are going to watch, http://en.wikipedia....E2.80.931955.29 ,  is a decent primer of what we could be seeing, lets see Hondo in 3D, all of the studios need to take this to heart, Hitchcock, Dial M, in 3D i say yes day one purchase,  but if it was original shot flat, and is just a conversion to refresh the title, they can keep it,


Great wiki list of 3-D films; thanks for including that link for everyone.  I hope the list of upcoming 3-D films for 2011 & on are up to par because they are going to determine the future of getting 3-D into consumer's homes for viewing.


 Not to be a stickler here, but if you happen to come upon the blu ray for Friday the 13th Part 3-D at a good price, pick it up.  Yes, you'll have to put up with the old blue & red glasses & the picture quality is overall bad, but the 3-D quality makes up for all the shortcomings. I can't stress enough at how surprized I was at the quality of the images. This is good stuff; & in addition, it can be shown to anyone with a regular blu ray player so those without a player made for 3-D can enjoy it as well.  If you're able to see it, post a comment & let us know what you thought of it. 

Friday the 13th Part 3-D , i own it , and it is a fun watch, i wonder how it would look in the new 3D, because it was filmed with 3D in mind, same as my three stooges shorts, they are fun


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Quote:Welles, Kubrick, Hitchcock, Spielberg, Jackson, Wood ?? a true Auteur should be one who follows his artistic vision
 

 


#57 of 1564 John Sparks

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Posted December 27 2010 - 01:06 PM

I'm surprised that many of you have bought into this 3-D fiasco. Didn't we learn from the HDDVD/BD war. You're spending your hard earned money for a few animated features and a few cable channels. Gos bless you that have the money to throw away. Do you really think that all the movies that haven't even been released onto DVD, will somehow be released as 3-D???



Me. I just installed an Epson 9500 UB PJ and a JKP Affinity Screen in my new HT and that will last me until I die.

Fool me once with HDDVD/BD...shame on you...fool me twice with 3-D...shame on me!!!


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#58 of 1564 Professor Echo

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Posted December 27 2010 - 01:58 PM



Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce 

I got around to watching Avatar on blu-ray last week. I must say that I found the writing typical of Cameron, in that all the characters talk with the same voice. Cameron has never been good at writing people who are unique, and everyone ends up sounding like a truck driver.

 

The digital animation and backgrounds were terribly unconvincing I thought. It felt like watching a Pixar movie and was particularly jarring when cutting back and forth with the live action. It probably would have been fine if everything were digital, but the live action makes the comparison pretty obvious

 

I also found the story line to be insulting to my intelligence.

 

Doug


 

Completely agree with this. I probably would have loved it if I had been 10 years old, but I found everything to be overwhelmingly simplistic and juvenile, same as I have most Cameron screenplays. He is a talented director, but a terrible writer. And anyone who doesn't think that Cameron has not liberally borrowed from other films for his entire career must surely be such the devoted fan that far be it from me to convince them otherwise.
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#59 of 1564 TravisR

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Posted December 27 2010 - 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by John Sparks 

I'm surprised that many of you have bought into this 3-D fiasco. Didn't we learn from the HDDVD/BD war. You're spending your hard earned money for a few animated features and a few cable channels. Gos bless you that have the money to throw away. Do you really think that all the movies that haven't even been released onto DVD, will somehow be released as 3-D???



Me. I just installed an Epson 9500 UB PJ and a JKP Affinity Screen in my new HT and that will last me until I die.

Fool me once with HDDVD/BD...shame on you...fool me twice with 3-D...shame on me!!!



I don't see 3-D TVs really catching on either (at least not until there's alot more content and the cost of 3-D TVs drop) but your HD-DVD/Blu-ray analogy doesn't work at all. There's only one 3-D format so it's not like you run the risk of buying the losing format.


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#60 of 1564 ManW_TheUncool

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Posted December 27 2010 - 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by TravisR 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Sparks 

I'm surprised that many of you have bought into this 3-D fiasco. Didn't we learn from the HDDVD/BD war. You're spending your hard earned money for a few animated features and a few cable channels. Gos bless you that have the money to throw away. Do you really think that all the movies that haven't even been released onto DVD, will somehow be released as 3-D???



Me. I just installed an Epson 9500 UB PJ and a JKP Affinity Screen in my new HT and that will last me until I die.

Fool me once with HDDVD/BD...shame on you...fool me twice with 3-D...shame on me!!!



I don't see 3-D TVs really catching on either (at least not until there's alot more content and the cost of 3-D TVs drop) but your HD-DVD/Blu-ray analogy doesn't work at all. There's only one 3-D format so it's not like you run the risk of buying the losing format.


I guess that depends on how one looks at it, but at this point, 3D BD could very well become the losing format anyway (w/ no winning format to speak of)...


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