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A few words about...™ Fantasia -- in Blu-ray

A Few Words About

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#161 of 242 OFFLINE   BCGHR2

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Posted December 26 2010 - 08:03 AM

The Disney restoration team does seek out IB Tech prints for reference (I know they found them on BAMBI, SNOW WHITE, 101 DALMATIONS, JUNGLE BOOK, SLEEPING BEAUTY, LADY, DUMBO) and also do extensive research at the Animation Research Library to see what the surving cells and BGs look like since the negatives are b/w sucessive exposure and that has to be factored in during color timing.  Everything I've heard is that they take great pains to research and engage in long debates about the color.

#162 of 242 OFFLINE   Scott Calvert

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Posted December 26 2010 - 08:08 AM



Originally Posted by BCGHR2 

The Disney restoration team does seek out IB Tech prints for reference (I know they found them on BAMBI, SNOW WHITE, 101 DALMATIONS, JUNGLE BOOK, SLEEPING BEAUTY, LADY, DUMBO) and also do extensive research at the Animation Research Library to see what the surving cells and BGs look like since the negatives are b/w sucessive exposure and that has to be factored in during color timing.  Everything I've heard is that they take great pains to research and engage in long debates about the color.



All of which counts for nothing when the people making the decisions refer to some of the original creators as "the geezer show" and only feign interest in what they have to say.



#163 of 242 ONLINE   bigshot

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Posted December 26 2010 - 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by BCGHR2 

The Disney restoration team does seek out IB Tech prints for reference (I know they found them on BAMBI, SNOW WHITE, 101 DALMATIONS, JUNGLE BOOK, SLEEPING BEAUTY, LADY, DUMBO) and also do extensive research at the Animation Research Library to see what the surving cells and BGs look like since the negatives are b/w sucessive exposure and that has to be factored in during color timing.  Everything I've heard is that they take great pains to research and engage in long debates about the color. 
The Animation Research library only has color reference for cels post Cinderella. All of the nitrate cels were put in barrels and buried at the Golden Oak ranch back in the late sixties. However, the great pains and research doesn't seem to be making much of a difference. Every version of Alice looks different than the one before it and Sleeping Beauty is one of the worst color balances since the glow in the dark Turner version of Gone With The Wind. I'm very glad to hear that Disney is engaged in film preservation. A digital scan is not the same as a film print projected in a theater using a film projector. The Universal fire kicked a big hole in the available film prints for rental. Hopefully, Disney is in the process of reversing their previous trend towards only offering digital projection of older films. The UCLA Film and Television Archive is overladed with elements from studios that aren't farsighted enough to preserve film as film.

#164 of 242 OFFLINE   Craig Beam

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Posted December 26 2010 - 02:37 PM

Merry Christmas!  My wife got me the Fantasia Anthology DVD set (to replace the one I sold last year), plus the Culhane book too!  No more hassling with that ill-conceived "Vault" crap. I'd forgotten how substantial the DVD set looks and feels... what a classy package.  I once called it the "crown jewel" of my DVD collection.... now I remember why.  I don't mind the space it takes on my shelf, right next to the blu-ray.

#165 of 242 OFFLINE   poddie

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Posted December 28 2010 - 06:45 PM

So can anyone comment on the assertion by the Ultimate Disney review that the Fantasia 2000 Blu-ray actually includes all the Legacy bonus features encoded on the disc, but simply does not allow access to them from the menus?  It says that if you have a PC Blu-ray drive (I do not), you can find all the material on the disc and play it directly. I've been searching for confirmation of this but have yet to find any... I detest the decision to make the extras BD-Live only... I really hope Disney does not find this method successful enough to screw its customers again next time.

#166 of 242 OFFLINE   urbo73

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Posted December 30 2010 - 01:37 AM



Originally Posted by poddie 

So can anyone comment on the assertion by the Ultimate Disney review that the Fantasia 2000 Blu-ray actually includes all the Legacy bonus features encoded on the disc, but simply does not allow access to them from the menus?  It says that if you have a PC Blu-ray drive (I do not), you can find all the material on the disc and play it directly.


I've been searching for confirmation of this but have yet to find any...


I detest the decision to make the extras BD-Live only... I really hope Disney does not find this method successful enough to screw its customers again next time.


Hmm..Don't have a Blu-ray drive so I can't test, but it would seem strange for it to be true. If the content would fit, why would they have BD-Live? Makes zero sense...



#167 of 242 OFFLINE   jquirk

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Posted December 30 2010 - 05:51 AM

I must report that I changed my mind about the Deems Taylor dubs: It was the right thing to do. It was accomplished pretty much flawlessly, and truly the only way to re-create the roadshow version was to have somebody else fill in for all the dialogue. The overall Blu-ray presentation of the actual film is a 10 out of 10 in my book. The only problem I have with the Blu-ray is having all of the Legacy bonus material only available via BD Live. I agree with urbo73 that it would not make any sense to make that additional content available only to those with a Blu-ray drive. If the material was encoded on the disc, then it should be available to anybody with a Blu-ray player, period.

#168 of 242 OFFLINE   ManW_TheUncool

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Posted December 30 2010 - 11:42 AM


[quote]Originally Posted by urbo73 [url=/forum/thread/306636/a-few-words-about-fantasia-in-blu-ray/150#post_3766131]


_Man_


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#169 of 242 OFFLINE   Craig Beam

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Posted December 30 2010 - 01:18 PM

I'm pretty sure if the content was actually stored on the disc, it wouldn't take so damned to load, then stutter as it plays.  There's definitely some streaming happening, which wouldn't be necessary if the content was actually present on the disc. EDIT:  Okay, I misunderstood.  The review asserts that the content is BOTH available via BD-Live and is authored on the Fantasia 2000 BD (but only accessible by using a BD-ROM drive).  I won't have a BD-ROM drive for at least another couple of months, so I have no way of verifying it.... but I'm intrigued.  As I stated a few posts back, I've got the DVD Anthology set, so I'm set either way.

#170 of 242 OFFLINE   Douglas Monce

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Posted December 30 2010 - 02:31 PM

I just checked the Fantasia 2000 disc in my computer, and there is a 48 min documentary called The Fantasia Legacy: The Concert Feature. It does in fact exist on the disc as a 480p video file. I can't find a way to access that file from the disc menu, unless the virtual vault is actually playing it from the disc. I'm also not sure why you can't view it full screen if that is the case. Also someone, I don't remember if it was in this thread or another, suggested that Destino was only presented in 480p. This is in fact NOT the case. It is a 1080p AVC file. Doug
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#171 of 242 OFFLINE   poddie

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Posted December 30 2010 - 04:32 PM

Thanks for checking Douglas!  You didn't find any of the other bonuses on there? I agree with Craig... it is definitely streaming when played through the menus. I believe that Disney decided late in the game to "test the waters" with this Virtual Vault crap and just removed it from the menu.

#172 of 242 OFFLINE   Douglas Monce

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Posted December 30 2010 - 05:13 PM

I didn't find any of the other features. Also I'm 90% sure that The Fantasia Legacy plays from the disc. It starts instantly, where if I go to the other features, they bring up a buffering bar. Again why you can't play it full screen I don't know. Doug
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#173 of 242 OFFLINE   Matt Hough

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Posted December 31 2010 - 12:16 AM



Originally Posted by Douglas Monce 

I just checked the Fantasia 2000 disc in my computer, and there is a 48 min documentary called The Fantasia Legacy: The Concert Feature. It does in fact exist on the disc as a 480p video file. I can't find a way to access that file from the disc menu, unless the virtual vault is actually playing it from the disc. I'm also not sure why you can't view it full screen if that is the case.


Also someone, I don't remember if it was in this thread or another, suggested that Destino was only presented in 480p. This is in fact NOT the case. It is a 1080p AVC file.



It certainly wasn't stated as such in my review. However, the "Disney/Dali" documentary detailing the careers of both men and the creation of the short IS in 480i.



#174 of 242 OFFLINE   Douglas Monce

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Posted December 31 2010 - 04:40 AM



Originally Posted by MattH. 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce 

I just checked the Fantasia 2000 disc in my computer, and there is a 48 min documentary called The Fantasia Legacy: The Concert Feature. It does in fact exist on the disc as a 480p video file. I can't find a way to access that file from the disc menu, unless the virtual vault is actually playing it from the disc. I'm also not sure why you can't view it full screen if that is the case.


Also someone, I don't remember if it was in this thread or another, suggested that Destino was only presented in 480p. This is in fact NOT the case. It is a 1080p AVC file.



It certainly wasn't stated as such in my review. However, the "Disney/Dali" documentary detailing the careers of both men and the creation of the short IS in 480i.


OH no it wasn't in your review or anyone else's. I believe it was stated by someone who posted in a thread, but I'm too lazy to go find the post. :-)


Yes the documentary is 480I


Doug


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#175 of 242 OFFLINE   benbess

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Posted April 26 2011 - 10:16 AM

Just watching this on blu for the first time. I very much miss Deems Taylor's voice, but I'm still loving the film and it still gives me a chill...First saw it at the age of 10, maybe, and I've never seen it looking and sounding this good. The colors once in a while look almost a little too bright. But maybe I'm just getting used to it.

#176 of 242 OFFLINE   MoroderDejaVu

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Posted April 24 2015 - 10:43 AM

Bad news, Fantasia fans:
the 2010 restoration of the stereophonic Fantasound is a complete mess.
The Vinyl copies of the 50s, 60s and the LaserDiscs prodived much better sound reproduction of the original source.
The Blu-ray audio is digitally filtered / compressed and has strange digital noises, the original stereo field is altered too and they erased the echo of the orchestra.

This is absolutely not how Walt Disney wanted it to sound like. All the audio experts who gave the Blu-ray 4-5 points out of 5 must be deaf.

Listen here to a Vinyl vs Blu-ray comparison to hear how bad it really is:
https://soundcloud.c...ound-comparison



#177 of 242 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted April 24 2015 - 11:06 AM

Bad news, Fantasia fans:[/size]the 2010 restoration of the stereophonic Fantasound is a complete mess.[/size]The Vinyl copies of the 50s, 60s and the LaserDiscs prodived much better sound reproduction of the original source.[/size]The Blu-ray audio is digitally filtered / compressed and has strange digital noises, the original stereo field is altered too and they erased the echo of the orchestra.[/size]This is absolutely not how Walt Disney wanted it to sound like. All the audio experts who gave the Blu-ray 4-5 points out of 5 must be deaf.[/size]Listen here to a Vinyl vs Blu-ray comparison to hear how bad it really is:[/size]https://soundcloud.c...ound-comparison


What, precisely, is Fantasia supposed to sound like? And how does one reproduce it, to sound that way?

An uncompressed audio stream from original elements, presuming some survive, would not work on Blu, without layers of handholding and attention.

So...

What is the proper sound, and how should it be reproduced.

Things are far thornier than they may seem.

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#178 of 242 OFFLINE   MoroderDejaVu

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Posted April 24 2015 - 11:09 AM

What, precisely, is Fantasia supposed to sound like? And how does one reproduce it, to sound that way?
 

Definitely not like a distorted digitally noise reduced stereo effects changed travesty with a  tin can sound in 7.1.

The LaserDiscs in 2.0 lossless may be OK, sadly I can't compare it.


Edited by MoroderDejaVu, April 24 2015 - 11:11 AM.


#179 of 242 OFFLINE   Carcosa

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Posted April 24 2015 - 11:39 AM

Definitely not like a distorted digitally noise reduced stereo effects changed travesty with a  tin can sound in 7.1.

The LaserDiscs in 2.0 lossless may be OK, sadly I can't compare it.

It definitely sounds different, but is it more accurate to what was presented in 1940? I don't think the soundtrack saw a vinyl release until the mid 1950's so its pretty hard to tell from any releases in that format. Maybe the 1990 CD set would be a better gauge, from what I remember from the liner notes on the restoration done at that time.



#180 of 242 OFFLINE   Mark Anthony

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Posted April 24 2015 - 11:41 AM

Definitely not like a distorted digitally noise reduced stereo effects changed travesty with a tin can sound in 7.1.
The LaserDiscs in 2.0 lossless may be OK, sadly I can't compare it.

Being such an expert on Fantasia's audio, i'm sure your aware that the 4 channel Stereo sound elements used as a basis for all mixes and editions since the mid 50’s were re-recorded in Mag Audio via telephone cable from Disney's offices using the Nitrate audio stems to a recording facility in an another building. The original stem's are long gone.

As a result Fantasia will never sound as it did in 1940 and this is the best approximation current technology will allow. This is why the CD release from 1990 was so terrible by modern standards and why the soundtrack was considered unusable in 1981 and subsequently digitally re-recorded for the 1982 re-issue. Whether the LP pressing master is any better, available or usable I doubt, if it was they would have used it!



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