Roy Rogers in TruColor and Uncut (2 Viewers)

I thought it would be nice to watch Roy Roger's color westerns. I dislike singing cowboys as a rule, but Roy Rogers always cheered me up, and his films were short enough at roughly 60 minutes to not overstay their welcome. Also, he could sing, whereas the other guy couldn't, and he had the Sons of the Pioneers to join in harmony from time to time. Then I started reading the customer reviews at amazon, and the idea of gathering his color films in uncut form is not so simple. For one thing, the reviews of different DVD and VHS editions are jumbled together, and you can't always tell which edition is being commented on for quality, color, and completeness. For another, the listed running times may not be accurate, especially when in conflict with customer reviews.

According to the imdb, Roy Rogers made 19 western musicals at Republic in the Trucolor process. The films with correct running times are:

1950 Trail of Robin Hood -- 67m
1950 North of the Great Divide -- 67 minutes
1950 Sunset In the West -- 67m
1950 Trigger, Jr -- 68m
1950 Twilight of the Sierras -- 67m
1950 The Bells of Coronado -- 67m
1949 The Golden Stallion -- 67m
1949 Down Dakota Way -- 67m
1949 Susanna Pass -- 67m
1948 The Far Frontier -- 67m
1948 Grand Canyon Trail -- 67m
1948 Night Time In Nevada -- 67m
1948 Eyes of Texas -- 70m
1948 Under California Stars -- 70m
1948 The Gay Ranchero -- 72m
1947 On the Old Spanish Trail -- 75m TruColor / 57m cut Westerns Channel print / 54m cut TV print
1947 Springtime In the Sierras -- 75m
1947 The Bells of San Angelo -- 78m
1947 Apache Rose -- 75m

and

1946 Out California Way -- cameo in Monte Hale film -- 67m / 54m cut

I have read that all of the above were cut down to 54 minutes for television airings, and these shortened versions appear in most if not all public domain editions and collections, and sometimes in authorized editions. The cuts were usually to the songs. Also, not all of Roy's Trucolor films survive in color. Some only survive in black and white.

I confess I'm looking for a short-cut. I don't want to work at finding the best editions, I just want to click on "Buy It Now" and then watch 'em at my convenience.

A couple of customers on amazon specified that Republic / Artisan's DVD of The Bells of Coronado (1950) was complete at 67 minutes with all songs intact and in excellent color, so I bought that. But the reports of Roy's other Trucolor films in their various editions are confusing. The authorized "Happy Trails Theater" editions from Good Times Video is a case in point. They seem to have released almost all of the Trucolor titles, but whether or not they are actually in color and uncut is anything but clear.

So, which editions are complete, uncut, good quality transfers in reasonably good color? Which editions should I buy? is there perhaps a Roy Rogers fan at HTF who has sorted this out?

Lionsgate has the Republic catalog licensed from Paramount and they haven't done much with it. The Bells of Coronado is the only Roy Rogers vehicle that they have released on DVD (although Roy is also in Dark Command with John Wayne). Your best bet is to look for 1990s VHS releases of Roy Rogers films under the Republic label. North of the Great Divide was one of the titles released on VHS. If you use the titles for sale link on Roy's imdb page, and scroll down to the VHS titles, you can see that one box design Republic used contained a small circular photo of Roy at the bottom. Several titles are on VHS.

I understand that the Rogers estate holds the rights to the movies that were used for The Happy Trails Theatre shows. They also own other films that were not part of that package, but how many I do not know. Roy may have purchased the rights to his Republic films, as Gene Autry did, for when they ran on Happy Trails Theatre the Republic logo was not on them.

Timeless Media has a set of 20 of Rogers films that all were used for the Happy Trails Theatre. Some are TrueColor and only about two of the titles were previously released by Goodtimes. It is said that the Timeless Media used the correct running time of the film as the original features were supposedly supplied by the Rogers estate (?).

As far as the correct running time is concerned, you might want to check the American Film Institute Catalog site and check under each title. The AFI Catalog is more right than wrong since they are using studio records along with industry reviews. They certainly are more correct than IMDB.

You left out "On the Old Spanish Trail" and "Trail Of Robin Hood" on your Trucolor RR movie list. And Roy & Dale guested in a Monte Hale musical Trucolor western called "Out California Way".
A full length Trucolor version of "Springtime In The Sierras" surfaced in the past couple of years and is usually available with a full length black and white version of "Eyes of Texas", from various online B-Western sellers.
Runtimes at this point, even if known absolutely, do not mean anything.. I have "King Of The Cowboys" on VHS from Republic Home Video and it's runtime is 53 mins and also another VHS version from Sinister Cinema that ran whatever the reference book runtime was but it was still missing a short scene that was in the 53 min version. Sinister, also, has other seemingly uncut, or at least longer, black and white versions of some of the Trucolors.
Your best bet for Trucolor Roy Rogers is to buy the Republic Home Video VHS Releases which all seem to be full length and listed at 67 min:
Susanna Pass
Down Dakota Way
The Golden Stallion
Bells of Coronado (listed for the list, also on DVD from Artisan/LG/Republic)
Twilight in the Sierras
Trigger Jr.
Sunset in the West (This one looks really nice, and Penny Edwards is gorgeous. The box and Amazon listing state it's in B&W but IT IS IN TRUCOLOR)
North of The Great Divide
Trail of Robin Hood
The Repulic Home Video VHS of the Far Frontier is in B&W and only 53 mins but it looks nice and there are still a lot of songs. And Clayton Moore and Gail Davis are in it.
And don't forget to include: Son Of Paleface.
I'd like to hear more about the Timeless set as to runtimes and color versions. The review I remember reading said some were only 45 minutes long!!!
The Roy Rogers webe-site run by the family sold an uncut version of The Cowboy and the Senorita, which I never got around to buying.

My thanks to Joe Doakes and ahollis for their helpful replies.

Thanks, Bob Gu, for your very helpful response.

Sunset in the West said:

, which I never got around to buying.

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Sounds like an absolute must. I'll look for their website but if you have a link, please post it.

Thanks everybody for your input.

The search goes on ...

Richard, I did not mean to imply that "Springtime in the Sierras" and "Eyes Of Texas" were available as a double feature, just that the same sellers sell them as uncut. I'll PM you with a lead or two for them and the Monte Hale movies, and Cowboy and the Senorita, later tonight. I know a saw the Monte Hale Trucolors western collection recently on a site and will check around a little more.
My VHS of "Sunset In The West" is in a sepia-toned Republic Home Video box ,spine #VHS 4321, 1998 edition. I still find it at amazon tonight. Choose VHS in the drop down menu instead of Movies and TV, and it should come up, listed as a 2002 release from Lion's Gate, Black and White. BUT IT REALLY IS IN TRUCOLOR! (If that doesn't work use your regular search engine type: Sunset In the West VHS and the amazon page should come up be first.
RoyRogers.com doesn't seem to be selling "The Cowboy and the Senorita.," anymore. That Bridgestone "Springtime" release is not actually described as being a color print, just uncut.
I know there are tons of Roy Rogers believed to be in the public domain releases, but I believe the Rogers movies are really owned by Paramount. Roy Rogers lawsuit with Republic was about being free from the studio to make his TV show and use the name Roy Rogers. The Roy Rogers copyrighted material on Happy Trails Theater is the then new Roy & Dale wrap-arounds.

Bob, thanks for your PM. Very useful. I'm working with it.

Mill Creek Entertainment's 20-film box-set includes both The Bells of San Angelo and Under California Stars in Trucolor. Whether or not they're complete is another matter. Customers complain about quality control issues and watermarks:

http://www.amazon.com/Roy-Rogers-Movie-Pack-DVD/dp/B000F9SUP8/ref=pd_bxgy_d_img_b

Sinister Cinema lists The Bells of San Angelo and Under California Stars as uncut and in Trucolor, available on VHS only.
SC also lists Eyes of Texas and Grand Canyon Trail as uncut, but doesn't mention if they're in Trucolor. So probably not.

I wonder if The Cowboy and the Senorita was ever colorized. It's a monochrome, but I'm seeing a couple of old VHS covers advertising it in color.

Then there's these burn-on-demands:

Eyes of Texas
http://www.amazon.com/Eyes-Texas-Roy-Rogers/dp/B0010AYA0K/ref=rsl_mainw_dpl?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Springtime In the Sierras
http://www.amazon.com/Springtime-Sierras-Roy-Rogers/dp/B0014159BO/ref=rsl_mainw_dpl?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

The Far Frontier
http://www.amazon.com/Frontier-Clayton-Francis-Barcroft-Strange/dp/B000KJTC00/ref=pd_bxgy_d_img_b

The Bells of San Angelo
http://www.amazon.com/Angelo-Rogers-Devine-McGuire-Trigger/dp/B000KJTBV0/ref=rsl_mainw_dpl?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

The Cowboy and the Senorita
http://www.amazon.com/Senorita-Trigger-Hubbard-Williams-McFarland/dp/B000PC72N6/ref=pd_bxgy_d_img_a

Timeless Media Group's Roy Rogers: King of the Cowboys offers 20 films on DVD, some for the first time. Roy and Dale introduce their old movies in a feature called "Happy Trails Theater." There are some decisive customer complaints:

http://www.amazon.com/Roy-Rogers-Cowboys-Feature-Films/dp/B00309Q1M4/ref=sr_1_5?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1291708907&sr=1-5

One customer at amazon recommends the DVD sets on the Diamond label for excellent quality transfers. I haven't found those yet. He goes on:

I'd also recommend the first five (and very rare) Happy Trails Theater DVDs, on the "Hollywood's Attic" label, which contained complete and restored versions of BELLS OF SAN ANGELO, SUNSET SERENADE, SONG OF UTAH, SAGA OF DEATH VALLEY and SAN FERNANDO VALLEY. BELLS OF SAN ANGELO, in particular, is a great disc, running over 90 minutes and boasting William Witney guest hosting with Roy and Dale, lots of on-set stories and behind-the-scenes home movies of the film in production.

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Richard

I have a black and white uncut copy of EYES OF TEXAS, my favorite Roy Rogers/William Witney film. This one is a must-see! It was available on a Platinum collection of 20 Rogers features released in 1992.

Do you mean on VHS? There was no DVD in 1992.
Which Platinum collection?
Can you find a link to it?
Many thanks.

When I bought the VHS Republic Home Video Trucolors in 1991 they were in a 12 movie non-boxed set. Eight of the nine Trucolors I listed above, plus three edited Black and Whites, "King Of The Cowboys", "Romance On The Range", and "Sons of the Pioneers". The 12th tape in the set was an edited B&W version of the Trucolor "The Far Frontier". "The Far Frontier" has the famous gangsters in the oil drums scene.
The 9th Trucolor I listed was "Sunset in The West", which was released on VHS in 1998 by Republic Home Video, by then a subsidary of Spelling Entertainment and distributed by Artisan Ent. I became aware of this release in 2005 and bought it on amazon.com. I didn't think to search for other Spelling Roy Rogers VHS releases thinking that with the release of the Bells of Coronado on DVD, that surely Roy Rogers was coming to DVD in great looking licenced restored uncut new editions. But here it is 2010 and nothing.
So anyway, I did a search of Rogers VHS at amazon tonight and there were at least five more Republic /Spelling/Artisan, titles all in original black and white but described as uncut. They all have a sepia-toned box design with a big portrait photo of Roy Rogers on top of the front cover and a scene from the movie on the bottom. There may have been more but many Rogers titles don't have the box covers showing. The titles I found: "Don't Fence Me In", "Along the Navajo Trail", "Rainbow Over Texas", "Sunset In Eldorado" and "Heart Of The Rockies". Based on how great "Sunset in the West" looked, I expect these to look very good.
I guess in the DVD age, it may seem silly to get excited about finding "new to me" Rogers VHS releases from Republic Home Video/Spelling, but these 1998-200+ releases might be better looking and more complete than releases from all these other companies where there is even less information. ( I also found at amazon.com two more Republic Home Video VHS releases where the box art does not match the 1991 or 1998 releases. They were "My Pal Trigger" and another release of "Don't Fence Me In". (The links are too long for me to type in. i keep making mistakes.)
I think Bridgestone and Platinum are the same company , so their VHS and DVD Rogers may be the same prints. I don't have them. I have some Rogers on the Mill Creek Western 50 DVD movie sets. "Bells of San Angelo" and "Under California Stars" look nice and sharpe on the set and their "My Pal Trigger" seems to be uncut. VCI has a nice double feature DVD of "Bells of San Angelo" and "Under California Stars".
The "Under California Stars" I have seen all seem to be uncut . The "Bells of San Angelo" times-out to uncut but in the four examples, (Millcreek, VCI, Sinister VHS, and unknown VHS), I have seen there's a problem at the same point in the movie where it's jumpy and there are slightly different bits missing and posibly a song. But that's what's out there.
The burn on demand outfit Reel Enterterprises has similar pricing and box art to Sinister Cinema, I wonder if they are connected?
The RoanGroup.com released a nice uncut , in original black and white , "Hands Across the Border" as a DVD double feature with cut "Billy The Kid Returns".
Collecting uncut Roy Rogers is quite an adventure!

Bob, since my initial post, I have now bought all eight of the uncut Trucolors released by Republic Home Video on VHS in the uniform covers, except Bells of Coronado which I bought on DVD. Managed to avoid the monochrome cut-downs of the other four titles. Highest amount paid for a VHS so far: $3.49.

I also bought Sunset in the West from Republic / Artisan / Spelling. Since the transfer is of such high quality, I will gather the rest of that uniform series now even though they're not Trucolor titles.

I also bought the Bridgestone VHS of Springtime In the Sierras which is supposedly uncut and in Trucolor but perhaps not in Trucolor. Bridgestone advertises uncut editions of several monochrome titles from film masters. At least one reviewer says these are false claims on the box-art. The only way to know for certain is to buy a couple.

I'm sorting out other possibilities for Trucolor titles and will let you know what I come up with.

Encore's Western Channel used to air two or three Roy Rogers films per month when I was a subscriber. I recorded a dozen or so on DVD-R. They're a mixed bag in terms of quality and length. I find I recorded both a cut version of the monochrome Don't Fence Me In In clear sharp quality and an uncut version that is blurred and muddy. I'm tossing out all the poor quality and cut versions. My recordings of The Golden Stallion and Trigger Jr are uncut and in lovely Trucolor, however. No doubt the Republic tapes will look even better when they get here.

Like I said elsewhere, buying VHS is nuts in the age of DVD and Blu-ray.
Somebody in the Roy Rogers estate needs to savvy up and lead the charge, wouldn't you say.

Bob Gu said:

The burn on demand outfit Reel Enterterprises has similar pricing and box art to Sinister Cinema, I wonder if they are connected?

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I played a few minutes of amazon's online trailers for the Reel Enterprise's Trucolor titles. Forget it. Muddy blurry quality in monochrome.

I looked at that "Bells of San Angelo" amazon link, Richard. I don't think that is the Republic Home Video box art posted there, but if the Studio and release date are correct it should be one of those Republic/Spelling releases. Since they only had one left for $.99 and postage I went for it, maybe the fifth time is the charm.

Originally Posted by Richard--W
Do you mean on VHS? There was no DVD in 1992.
Which Platinum collection?
Can you find a link to it?
Many thanks.

Click to expand...

http://www.amazon.com/Returns-Rosarita-Canyon-Heldorado-Badlands/dp/B000CHBWIK/ref=sr_1_10?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1291839687&sr=1-10

Here's the link to the Platimun Rogers collection I have...It's pretty pricey now.

I just noticed that the complete unedited B/W version of EYES OF TEXAS is available on Netflix Instant streaming. It looks pretty good.

Thanks for checking that out. It was monochrome, right? I watched the trailer for the amazon download and it looks pretty bad. Maybe Netflix has a better source. I can't download with this connection, and my PC doesn't have a video card. It's very slow loading up a trailer. Besides, I prefer to own the hard copy.

Platinum appears to have reconfigured the uncut, monochrome version of Eyes of Texas on a number of different discs in a number of different sets, some of which I see are only a dollar. So I'll pick it up in my next go-round.

Since Bob Gu is collecting Roy's monochrome films on Alpha DVD, are there any editions that he'd recommend, particularly? for picture and sound and completeness aside from the blinding artwork?

I'm curious to see Under Western Stars (1938) and The Ranger and the Lady (1940) which are said to be Roy's only period pieces. No horses running alongside automobiles. Have you seen editions of either title you'd recommend?

"Under Western Stars", the first Roy Rogers movie, actually is set modern times. It has cars, radio, movies, a modern dam, telephones, and fox hunting. The Alpha edition actually is uncut, 65 minutes, and has pretty good picture quality. I'll make note of any other uncut Alphas I have the next time I have a Roy Rogers marathon.
The Alpha "Ranger and the Lady" has a runtime of 53 minutes which is six minutes short, and the picture quality also good.
There are way more than two, early Rogers movies set in the Old West. One that I recommend is "The Carson City Kid", which I have on the MillCreek/Treeline 50 Western Classics set at 53 minutes, (Alpha has it too at 53 min). I recall that you are a Wild Bill Elliott fan, Richard. The "Carson City Kid" was remade as Wild Bill's first bigger budget Republic, "In Old Sacramento". There's actually more music, singing, and dancing in the Elliott version, with Constance Moore handling all that.
I would also recommend all the uncut Sinister Cinema Roy Rogers, they have about ten, I think. (Search "Roy Rogers uncut' at their site). I especially enjoyed, "Bells of Rosarita", "Idaho"," King of the Cowboys", "Home in Oklahoma and "Roll On Texas Moon".
My strategy with the Alphas is to buy some Roy Rogers titles whenever they have them on sale for $3.95, if I don't have the titles at all on VHS or DVD. Alpha has a lot of double features with Roy Rogers. So that is a good deal, even for cut prints, and you gotta love those Alpha covers, which, of course, are all avaliable as posters.

Those uncut Sinister Cinema monochrome DVD-Rs are looking better and better the longer I study the situation. Poster art, too. Some titles are being sold on amazon that aren't currently on the website, and vice versa.

I saw Wild Bill Elliott for the first time on the Westerns Channel when I was a subscriber. Never heard of him before. He is a solid and genuine presence in front of the camera. Calling him "wild" must be a joke because everything about him was the opposite. I recorded three, perhaps four of his films. The one that impressed me the most was Hellfire in Trucolor. There's no other western quite like it. Deserves a major release. Republic and its controllers are shooting themselves in the foot by not getting these Trucolors out there in the marketplace on DVD. They need a proper promotional, too, one that doesn't cater strictly to the nostalgia crowd.

More later.

According to reviews, Alpha's DVD Lights of Old Santa Fe (1944, monochrome) is complete, uncut, and in excellent quality:

http://www.amazon.com/Lights-Santa-Rogers-Evans-Gabby/dp/B0002HODTA/ref=pd_sim_d_6

That link also leads to an uncut Alpha "Idaho". I guess I'll have to adjust my Alpha Roy Rogers strategy to include re-buying the uncut Alpha titles I already have on Sinister DVD-R and VHS just to get them on real DVD. Plus the Sinister titles always look a little darker than they have to be, compared to the Alphas which generally have better light to dark handling. Plus, if they used different prints, one companies uncut film might still be more uncut than anothers.
Oldies.com the Alpha home site has a standing 5 Alpha titles for $25.00 sale at their site, and often have $3.99 each Alpha sales, some of the Rogers DVDs were $3.95 the other day when I looked. They had a free Alpha postage sale last week so I bought 5 Titles, some Renfrew the Singing Mountie features, which were cut and rough looking, but it was nice to find them in one spot. If the free postage for Alphas sale is still on, I'll buy some of these uncut Alpha Rogers.
Gordon "Wild Bill" Elliott started out in the '30s playing small parts, and graduated to his first starring role in the Columbia Serial "The Great Adventures Of Wild Bill Hickok". The "Wild Bill" name carried over to his Columbia B-Western series where he played "Will Bill Saunders" and the name stuck.
Republic Home Video released "Hellfire" on VHS (and maybe his other Trucolor "The Last Bandit" too). My boot copies of these two are pretty soft, with "Hellfire" looking too red and "The Last Bandit" looking too blue. Your off cable copy probably looks better than the tape since I think Republic or Spelling did start refurbishing the Trucolors in the mid-'90s based on a couple of Rod Cameron Trucolors I have seen on TV and, I hope , those VHS releases in the Sepia boxes, like "Sunset In The West".
Republic Home Video, released Five Elliotts in a non-boxed set, two B's "Bordertown Gunfighters", "Death Valley Manhunt", and three of his bigger budget titles, "The Fabulous Texan", "Wyoming" and "The Plainsman and the Lady". The "Lady" in the title refers to the evil step-mother, to Vera Ralston, played by Gail Patrick who later became the producer of the Perry Mason TV series.
Republic also released on VHS/ SUPER SLP, Elliotts first and last movies for Republic, "Calling Wild Bill Elliott" and "Showdown", which is similar to "Hellfire", with it's solid storytelling and religious theme, even though it's probably the most set-bound Republic western ever made. It's still a top-notch western.