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Will Streaming end our DVD Collecting?


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#1 of 81 OFFLINE   Joe Karlosi

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Posted September 05 2010 - 11:08 PM

Apologies if this is being discussed elsewhere at HTF that I'm unaware of, but over at another message board there's a discussion going on about the current streaming that NETFLIX is offering, and how one day it will obliterate DVDs.As a diehard collector of movies, someone who likes to OWN a title in his hands and build a physical library, this is making me concerned.

 

The most unsettling aspect to this is that it's not just the "Joe Six Packs" or "Mom and Pop" who are supporting this trend, but also people in their 40s and older who are already serious collectors and DVD fans!!  This comes as a real surprise to me, that they have no problem letting their collections disappear and just streaming everything straight to their TV by paying a monthly fee (that is, assuming of course that one day EVERY MOVIE TITLE will be made available and for any "indefinite" amount of time, which I doubt).

 

It's not that I have any problem with making "renting" easier by streaming. It's that I'd also like the option available to keep OWNING titles on physical media as well. From the looks of it, one day the studios won't give you such an option.



#2 of 81 OFFLINE   Jeff Willis

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Posted September 06 2010 - 12:52 AM

Joe,

 

I'm over 40 yrs old and I see this issue exactly the same as you.

 

Like you, I'm not necessarily opposed to new technology, streaming, downloading, but I have questions about it such as, if one wants to burn their own private copy of something that they have downloaded or streamed, will that be possible?  Or is this part of a master plan for the studios to encode everything so that the private collector, who has legally paid for a download, can't keep a copy for their library?

 

I haven't yet entered the streaming scene as I have plenty of DVD's to view but these questions are of interest to me.

 

I have no interest yet, to download TV shows (as primarily a TV/DVD collector) to store in a box, etc.  I need more info about this segment of the industry such as, what would happen to a series that you have purchsed, if the box becomes defective?  I'd assume that you will lose any stored data in the box unless there is a function provided to burn your own copies for physical storage.



ml1fyo.jpg  "Checkmate King Two, 'Out'" "Combat! A Selmur Production"

 

TV/DVD Collector, mainly 50's thru 90's with a few 2000+ shows.
My 2 all-time favorite TV shows:
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#3 of 81 OFFLINE   mdnitoil

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Posted September 06 2010 - 02:42 AM

I don't know what the answer is but it seems obvious to me that our disc collecting will be undergoing some kind of change over the next few years.  I mean now we are getting excited when the studios deign to give us burnt discs with no extras at full price.  Is streaming/downloading really that much of a dropoff from where we are now?  If I'm going to end up with a burnt disc, at least let me download the file and I can burn it myself.  That way I can make a backup when my first copy inevitably dies.


I'm still hopeful that these smaller boutique labels will collectively form a cottage industry to satisfy the actual collectors, much like what has happened with the music industry and vinyl.  To some degree that seems to be happening with the majors becoming more and more open to the idea of licensing their product.  These last couple of years have been a real boon to genre fans.  All kinds of obscure titles are making their way onto actual pressed discs with a nice bevy of extras.  Of course, all bets are off with Warner.  We'll be stuck with their burnt discs for a long time to come.



#4 of 81 OFFLINE   dana martin

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Posted September 06 2010 - 02:51 AM

plain and simple i want a physical copy in hand


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#5 of 81 OFFLINE   Ed Moxley

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Posted September 06 2010 - 03:36 AM

Streaming isn't going to become mainstream for many years, in my opinion. Sure, some people are going to do it, but there's many more small towns in this country, than there are large cities. In small towns there's still a lot of people that have no access to broadband of any kind, because of living too far out of the city limits, and the wires don't go out that far. You'd be surprised at how many people are still on dial up, and streaming isn't going to happen on dial up. Rural America is just too big...............

 

Streaming will become big in big cities, where there's millions of people. Places like L.A., NYC, Chicago, etc., but cable and dsl will have to reach a lot more people before you have to worry about discs going away. Just my $.02.


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#6 of 81 OFFLINE   Traveling Matt

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Posted September 06 2010 - 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdnitoil 


I don't know what the answer is but it seems obvious to me that our disc collecting will be undergoing some kind of change over the next few years.  I mean now we are getting excited when the studios deign to give us burnt discs with no extras at full price.  Is streaming/downloading really that much of a dropoff from where we are now?

 

This is precisely how I feel. As someone who refuses both the BD re-buy factor as well as the insanity that is DVD-Rs, I already own virtually everything I want on standard (pressed) DVD and therefore have very little interest in expanding my disc library. With few discs to look forward to in the future, I say bring on the streaming. I don't at all mind renting the movies I don't care to own.



#7 of 81 OFFLINE   RickER

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Posted September 06 2010 - 03:49 AM


 

Originally Posted by dana martin 

plain and simple i want a physical copy in hand


And a DVD-R burnt by me, or coming from the studio doesn't count!  :)

 

I have no problem streaming as rental. If i like a title a rent, and i mean really like it, i will buy the Blu-ray (or DVD).

 

Guys, i have about a 1000 titles on Disc, both TV and movies. To my friends i have a large collection. But i know its small compared to some i have seen pictures of on-line. I would never own 5 or 10,000 titles.

1. My wife would not let me.

2. I am OCD when it comes to organizing. If i do not have the room on my shelf space, something must go. And i do thin out stuff i have not watched in YEARS.

3. I have almost all of my "must owns".

4. If i see 3 or 4 news movies a year i love enough to own. Well, i would be shocked if it was ever more than that.

5. I am 46, at best i will have 40 to 45 years left. Lets assume 30 to 35 with eyes and ears good enough to watch. I own plenty to get me thru. Why own 10,000 titles. I could never watch them all.

 

I know its good to have variety. But really, 1000 is pretty sweet. I always have something i can watch, that i have not seen in a while.

I do like owning my collection, and rediscovering something i have not watched in a while.

 

If streaming makes it easier for me to discover new things as a RENTAL, i am fine with it. But i will always want to own what i already have.



#8 of 81 OFFLINE   AlanBrom

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Posted September 06 2010 - 04:24 AM

I have no use for streamlining. I'm not opposed to it as an option for some people, but I have absolutely no use for it. I am a DVD collector and have been for ten years. I love building a collection and I look forward to adding more.

 

I am actually quite annoyed to hear that MGM is dumping some of their unreleased cult films to Netflix. I want to own these films on DVD! I'm your target audience for these specific kind of titles, so please listen to me and release things like The Neanderthal Man, The Crimson Cult, The Incredible Melting Man, The Black Sleep, etc on DVD! I used to look forward to seeing the covers for the upcoming Midnite Movies releases online, and would anticipate adding the next batch to my collection. Now MGM just gives me heartache between this streaming stuff and their burn-on-demand offerings, and nothing new on legit DVD.

 

With Shout! Factory doing so well with the Corman Cult Classics, and other niche companies like Synapse, Code Red, Scorpion and Severin releasing so many cult and horror classics on both DVD and blu (not to forget Criterion), there's a lot to look forward to. So, no streamlining for me, but MGM, please give longtime customers like me the option to buy these films, especially when the transfers are supposed to look so great. I want a REAL disc with cover art, PLEASE!



#9 of 81 OFFLINE   mdnitoil

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Posted September 06 2010 - 04:26 AM



Originally Posted by Ed Moxley 

Streaming isn't going to become mainstream for many years, in my opinion. Sure, some people are going to do it, but there's many more small towns in this country, than there are large cities. In small towns there's still a lot of people that have no access to broadband of any kind, because of living too far out of the city limits, and the wires don't go out that far. You'd be surprised at how many people are still on dial up, and streaming isn't going to happen on dial up. Rural America is just too big...............

 

Streaming will become big in big cities, where there's millions of people. Places like L.A., NYC, Chicago, etc., but cable and dsl will have to reach a lot more people before you have to worry about discs going away. Just my $.02.


While I appreciate and understand your small town theory, the reality is that they're just not going to have the sheer breadth of choices that those in big towns do.  It's always been this way and always will be.  That being said, I live in the midwest and have absolutely no problem getting hi-speed internet.  I'm pretty sure the studios will be more than happy with the customer base they can reach given the current infrastructure.  Now, of course new releases will be available nationwide on discs for a long time to come.  I was under the impression that we were talking about collectors and catalog releases, which have already disappeared regardless of the size of city you live in.  The reality is that, right now, Netflix has exclusive catalog titles never before released on disc available for streaming.  You can certainly question the quality of these titles and whether anyone would even want them on disc, but this is not some random event.  We'll be seeing more of this whether we like it or not.



#10 of 81 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted September 06 2010 - 04:30 AM

At some point in time, streaming or downloads or burning your own discs will become the norm but it's a long way away if only because of today's technical limitations.

 

And even though it's every studio's fondest dream, there's no way that they can make people pay for every viewing. Alot of younger people already have a sense of entitlement where they're allowed to steal whatever they want because it's on the computer and forcing all people to pay over and over is just going to push many more people over into 'downloading' movies.



#11 of 81 OFFLINE   ChuckWL

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Posted September 06 2010 - 04:44 AM

This is coming next year and is supported by most of the studios (except Disney which is making its own).   Notice the list of supporting companies which includes Netfilx:

 

Ultraviolet:

http://www.uvvu.com/

 

and more info here from this past week:

 

Six Questions: Ultraviolet:

http://www.homemedia...ch-singer-20510

 

This will involve Disc, Download and Streaming

 

Im not sure why some think its Netflix and nothing else in the future.  In the past we have had Over the Air, DVD, BluRay, Cable, Dish, PPV, VOD all surviving at the same time.  What happens when Netflix decides not to renew the streaming rights for your favorite tv or movie?  Its happened to me a few times, on some of the BBC programs Netflix streams.  Even worse when you are in the middle of a mini series and it happens.

 



#12 of 81 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted September 06 2010 - 06:20 AM

Yes it is coming, but there was a study that was put out earlier this year through Variety (not sure of date) where every production company lowered their expectations on downloads and streaming of films and TV shows due to the lack of interest at the present.  That lack of interest was due to some consumers not understanding the process, consumers wanting a physical item in their hands, consumers not having the proper hardware to do it, lack of marketing and the biggest was that consumers felt the product should be free, especially television shows.
 

It is coming, but we have a lot to overcome first.  Personally I fall in the category of I want in my hands and on the shelf not in a hard drive that will expire.


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#13 of 81 OFFLINE   Professor Echo

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Posted September 06 2010 - 06:33 AM

I  just posted this on another thread and then found THIS thread, so I thought it bore repeating here as per the topic:

 

 

Just conjecturing here, but I believe the paradigm set by Netflix's streaming service may be the future of home entertainment. In other words, I don't think that downloading will be much of a factor since from day one, going all the way back to the introduction of VCRs, the studios have been dragged kicking and screaming over ever giving up their property to private hands in any way, shape or form. It's also possible that the iTunes format may be used for movies and television, but I think the studios are first going to explore a subscription based streaming plan as Netflix now currently uses and is becoming more and more widespread (many new TVs are already set up to include  Netflix enabled streaming). Some studios will probably use a streaming distributor such as Netflix while others, i.e. Warners, may set up their own system, for better or worse.  Under such a system, a subscriber would pay a time limited fee, perhaps annually or monthly or whatever, and then theoretically have access to anything that studio owns, to watch as often as they like during their subscription period, but not available for copying onto physical media. Only time will tell.

 



#14 of 81 OFFLINE   Jeff Willis

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Posted September 06 2010 - 07:21 AM

^^

 

Walker,

 

Thanks, that's interesting info.

 

For me, the last sentenance is the one that I hope we won't see, not allowing private collectors access to making their own burnt media copy.  If these studios are promoting the "protected" streaming/downloading angle, I'd never be in favor of that approach.



ml1fyo.jpg  "Checkmate King Two, 'Out'" "Combat! A Selmur Production"

 

TV/DVD Collector, mainly 50's thru 90's with a few 2000+ shows.
My 2 all-time favorite TV shows:
"Combat!" & "The Fugitive"
My 2 all-time best blind-buys: "The Fugitive"   "The Donna Reed Show"


#15 of 81 OFFLINE   ChuckWL

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Posted September 06 2010 - 08:05 AM


 

Originally Posted by Point-Blank 

I  just posted this on another thread and then found THIS thread, so I thought it bore repeating here as per the topic:

 

 

Just conjecturing here, but I believe the paradigm set by Netflix's streaming service may be the future of home entertainment. In other words, I don't think that downloading will be much of a factor since from day one, going all the way back to the introduction of VCRs, the studios have been dragged kicking and screaming over ever giving up their property to private hands in any way, shape or form. It's also possible that the iTunes format may be used for movies and television, but I think the studios are first going to explore a subscription based streaming plan as Netflix now currently uses and is becoming more and more widespread (many new TVs are already set up to include  Netflix enabled streaming). Some studios will probably use a streaming distributor such as Netflix while others, i.e. Warners, may set up their own system, for better or worse.  Under such a system, a subscriber would pay a time limited fee, perhaps annually or monthly or whatever, and then theoretically have access to anything that studio owns, to watch as often as they like during their subscription period, but not available for copying onto physical media. Only time will tell.

 

To Start great post, but I disagree... Over 100 thousand DVDs and BD have been released in the life of the format. Never have I seen a studio "Screaming" over selling their product. I believe they make Billions every year on the Sale of their pictures (they still do today in such a sad economy).
 

If the studios are only interested in streaming why then are they going full steam ahead with the Ultraviolet format supported by most major studios, Netflix and even Comcast as a sell through format?  Why is Warner continuing with the Warner Archives (which I hear has done very well for them)?  Why allow CinemaNow sell movies (digital downloads) to the public, Amazon?  Apple?

 

If streaming is the ONLY way in the future why not discontinue selling now and only stream since most TVs have access to Netflix via the TV or a box (PS3 Wii, Roku, Xbox)?  They wont and why?   $$$$$$$$$

 

I'm sure studios would rather see their films sold than downloaded for free on torrents.



#16 of 81 OFFLINE   mdnitoil

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Posted September 06 2010 - 08:29 AM

Well, it was also the studios that pushed through the digital millenium copyright act to see to it that if you try to back up your disc you are committing a crime.  As far as the studios are concerned, you don't own the data (movie), you own the media (shiny plastic disc).  A subtle but important distinction.



#17 of 81 OFFLINE   ChuckWL

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Posted September 06 2010 - 08:49 AM



Originally Posted by mdnitoil 

Well, it was also the studios that pushed through the digital millenium copyright act to see to it that if you try to back up your disc you are committing a crime.  As far as the studios are concerned, you don't own the data (movie), you own the media (shiny plastic disc).  A subtle but important distinction.


You sir are correct which lead to this: http://www.homemedia...rotection-20286



#18 of 81 OFFLINE   Professor Echo

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Posted September 06 2010 - 10:15 AM

Thanks for enjoying my post and responding, Sarah. Despite the seemingly contradictory evidence of the past few decades and the quick profit compliance with home video by the studios, they have NEVER fully embraced the concept of anyone OWNING their property. If they can find a method to retract the practices of the past thirty plus years and once again be in control, they will. 'Twas ever thus....



#19 of 81 OFFLINE   mdnitoil

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Posted September 06 2010 - 11:42 AM

In some ways I can understand the studio's attitude here.  I've got over 2000 movies on disc and in all likelyhood will never repurchase them again.  Since I don't get turned on by having the latest and greatest video gadgets, I get to neatly bypass the bottomless pit that is the bluray double dip merry-go-round.  I buy very few new titles so it's just the constant search for old material and waiting for it to finally show up.  As less and less titles are made available, more of my dollars go towards other hobbies.  From that perspective, I can see where the studios might be unhappy with digital video home ownership.  I also have to question just how many more titles I really need.  I rarely get to rewatch things more than once every few years and I'm fast approaching an age where the five more viewings I might get out of a disc don't really justify a purchase.  Perhaps streaming wouldn't be so bad for someone like me.  All the stuff I really care about is already on the shelf...and then some!



#20 of 81 OFFLINE   Joe Karlosi

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Posted September 06 2010 - 12:17 PM



Originally Posted by AlanBrom 

 

I am actually quite annoyed to hear that MGM is dumping some of their unreleased cult films to Netflix. I want to own these films on DVD! I'm your target audience for these specific kind of titles, so please listen to me and release things like The Neanderthal Man, The Crimson Cult, The Incredible Melting Man, The Black Sleep, etc on DVD! I used to look forward to seeing the covers for the upcoming Midnite Movies releases online, and would anticipate adding the next batch to my collection. Now MGM just gives me heartache between this streaming stuff and their burn-on-demand offerings, and nothing new on legit DVD.

 

With Shout! Factory doing so well with the Corman Cult Classics, and other niche companies like Synapse, Code Red, Scorpion and Severin releasing so many cult and horror classics on both DVD and blu (not to forget Criterion), there's a lot to look forward to. So, no streamlining for me, but MGM, please give longtime customers like me the option to buy these films, especially when the transfers are supposed to look so great. I want a REAL disc with cover art, PLEASE!


I agree with every word!