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Do I need HDMI input and output for my audio?


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#1 of 17 btg34

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Posted August 17 2010 - 04:37 AM

So I'm remodeling my basement and creating a home theater.  I've got a projector (ceiling mount) and fixed screen mounted already.  I've already got a 25' HDMI cable running from my recessed shelving for my equipment, to my projector and all of the speaker wiring done and returning to my shelving as well.  What I'm trying to figure out, is whether I'll need to run an HDMI cable from my DISH receiver to my audio receiver, and then run the long HDMI cable to the projector.  It seems like that is the only way to do this properly, the way things are currently set up (wiring is finished as ceiling is sheetrocked now).  Maybe I relied a little too much on my electrician's advice and know how, and should have done further wiring, but it is too late now.

 

So, my question, is what audio system I can get (at a reasonable price, doesn't need to be mind blowing by any means), that either has 2 HDMI inputs (one for DISH and one for Blu-ray) and one HDMI output (to go to projector).  Or is a Blu-ray receiver, and has 1 HDMI input, and 1 HDMI output.

 

If anybody else has any suggestions, please help me out.  I'm a newbie, but these seem to be my only two options after talking with my electrician and scouring the internet.  Hopefully one of you guys can enlighten me and help me complete the last step of this project.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Edit:

 

I'm wired for 5.1 speaker system.  I'm trying to keep the costs down the sound system, as it wasn't originally budgeted (we had a system given to us that ended up not working).  So I know you all probably don't like HTiB systems, BUT this is primarily going to be used for sports viewing, and the occasional movie.  Sound is my smallest concern in the remodel :)



#2 of 17 Mike Frezon

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Posted August 17 2010 - 04:56 AM

Bryon:

 

Welcome to the HTF!  http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/

 

Since you say you've already got an HDMI cable running from your shelving to your projector...and speaker wiring run from your shelving to the speakers (I'm assuming the speakers are already in place?)...you're in pretty good shape.
 

You simply need to find yourself a receiver with enough HDMI inputs for your sources (cable box, Blu-ray player, anything else?) and an HDMI output.  Most A/V receivers fall in that category today.  The deciding factor for you will be budget.  If you think there's ANY CHANCE you might be considering the addition of any new sources down the road, you should consider an additional HDMI now rather than later.
 

The receiver will then distribute video to your projector via the HDMI and audio to your speakers.
 

If you don't have speakers yet--and depending upon your budget (please give us a figure)--an HTiB might be the way to go.  Onkyo are usually recommended here.  However...be careful!  Many HTiB speakers use proprietary wiring (unique connectors) which means you may NOT be able to use your pre-existing wiring.
 

I'm sure others will be weighing in soon.  Good luck!


There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


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#3 of 17 btg34

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Posted August 17 2010 - 05:11 AM

I just have general speaker wiring done.  Does this mean there is a specific type of system I should avoid?  How can I tell in advance if they have proprietary wiring?

 

Also, is it just assumed that an HTiB receiver has an HDMI output, because almost every single one I've seen online only mentions HDMI inputs and nothing about outputs.

 

Thanks for the help!



#4 of 17 David Willow

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Posted August 17 2010 - 06:20 AM

Byron,

 

You should avoid HTiB if feasible, but if you can't due to budget constraints, Onkyo is the way to go.  You will get a real receiver with at least 2 HDMI inputs (usually more).
 

How big is the budget for this project?  And I'm confused....  Do you need speakers as well as the AVR?



#5 of 17 btg34

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Posted August 17 2010 - 07:00 AM

The budget I'm looking at for the audio is below $500 hopefully now, and I need speakers.  It isn't a huge deal to me if HTiB isn't ideal, as I'm happy to get it seperate if within budget.  I was just hoping to save some money somewhere.  If it isn't the best move to try and save with an HTiB since the wiring is already done, then I can deal with that though.



#6 of 17 btg34

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Posted August 17 2010 - 08:44 AM



Originally Posted by Mike Frezon 

Bryon:

 

Welcome to the HTF!  http://static.hometh...um.com/imgrepo/

 

Since you say you've already got an HDMI cable running from your shelving to your projector...and speaker wiring run from your shelving to the speakers (I'm assuming the speakers are already in place?)...you're in pretty good shape.
 

You simply need to find yourself a receiver with enough HDMI inputs for your sources (cable box, Blu-ray player, anything else?) and an HDMI output.  Most A/V receivers fall in that category today.  The deciding factor for you will be budget.  If you think there's ANY CHANCE you might be considering the addition of any new sources down the road, you should consider an additional HDMI now rather than later.
 

The receiver will then distribute video to your projector via the HDMI and audio to your speakers.
 

If you don't have speakers yet--and depending upon your budget (please give us a figure)--an HTiB might be the way to go.  Onkyo are usually recommended here.  However...be careful!  Many HTiB speakers use proprietary wiring (unique connectors) which means you may NOT be able to use your pre-existing wiring.
 

I'm sure others will be weighing in soon.  Good luck!


Mike,

 

What do you think of the Onkyo HT-S3300?  Does anyone know whether they use proprietary wiring?  I found what seems to be a preety good price (You tell me I guess!) on Amazon at $278.  This would at least get me started, and down the road, when the bills for the basement remodel aren't rolling in and the budget expands, we could upgrade the speakers.
 

Is this a good option for me?

 

Thanks for all the help everyone!
 



#7 of 17 Al.Anderson

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Posted August 17 2010 - 09:51 AM

 

How can I tell in advance if they have proprietary wiring?

 

It's generally not the actual wire that's the problem, it's whether they used proprietary connections.  If the connection has two wires, prongs, or some sort of connection dohicky - you're fine (you can always cut off the connector).  If it looks like it has more than two wires connecting to the speaker, then you're in trouble.



#8 of 17 gene c

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Posted August 17 2010 - 10:37 AM

 "Sound is my smallest concern in the remodel :)"

 

I'm sorry to hear this /img/vbsmilies/htf/smile.gif . The audio portion of the HT experience is often over-looked or under valued. But, we all have our prioreties.

 

"What do you think of the Onkyo HT-S3300?"

 

 The biggest drawback to the Onkyo  3300 is the plastic "passive" sub woofer, meaning it's powered by the receiver. The 5300 has a self-powered 10" sub woofer made from some sort of wood which will perform much better then the one in the 3300. The 5300 also has a better receiver and speakers than the 3300 but if sound quality really isn't that important to you then the 3300 might be just fine.

 

BTW, Any Onkyo system should work fine with your existing wiring. Their connections aren't proprietary but standard speaker wire type.


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#9 of 17 btg34

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Posted August 17 2010 - 11:00 AM



Originally Posted by gene c 

 "Sound is my smallest concern in the remodel :)"

 

I'm sorry to hear this /img/vbsmilies/htf/smile.gif . The audio portion of the HT experience is often over-looked or under valued. But, we all have our prioreties.

 

"What do you think of the Onkyo HT-S3300?"

 

 The biggest drawback to the Onkyo  3300 is the plastic "passive" sub woofer, meaning it's powered by the receiver. The 5300 has a self-powered 10" sub woofer made from some sort of wood which will perform much better then the one in the 3300. The 5300 also has a better receiver and speakers than the 3300 but if sound quality really isn't that important to you then the 3300 might be just fine.

 

BTW, Any Onkyo system should work fine with your existing wiring. Their connections aren't proprietary but standard speaker wire type.



Thanks for the help.  It isn't that the audio is at the bottom of my priorities, it's just that this is more of a "sports bar" type of room, and audio doesn't seem to be as vital in this application compared to a dedicated HT.  The more I'm looking though, the larger my budget is getting.  I room is very large (48x18, half bar/pool table area, half theater area), and I think it'd be best if the sound from the theater area would be clear all the way at the bar (45 feet away).  How much will I need to revise my budget to accomplish this, or is it impossible?

 

Also, the 5300 is a 7.1 system if I recall right?  My wiring was only done for a 5.1 system, wiring for two more speakers might be tough, and it seems silly to spend the money on a 7.1 if I can only use 5 of the speakers...

 

I'm not totally opposed to a significant budget increase if it will give me a substantial difference, if it won't be substantial then I might be best suited to wait to upgrade it (at least to appease my wife) /img/vbsmilies/htf/smile.gif



#10 of 17 gene c

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Posted August 17 2010 - 11:37 AM

With a room that size I would think the 3300 would be in-adequate.

 

You don't need to hook up the Surround Back speakers of the 5300 if you don't want to. You can configure it as a 5.1 system. And you would be getting a better amp section to help fill the large room. But the powered sub woofer would be the biggest benefit.

 

Most members around here wouldn't even try to fill a room that size with a pre-packaged system but would recommend buying a seperate receiver, speakers and a much more expensive sub woofer. But the cost can add up quickly.

 

I suggest you try and listen to a few different systems at varying price points to find out exactly want you may want, and need. Big-Box stores generally have poor listenning rooms/areas but it's worth the effort to try and get a better idea of what you think you're paying for and what you might actually get. Got a Fry's near you?


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#11 of 17 gene c

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Posted August 17 2010 - 11:56 AM

Here's an example of a pretty good system with components purchased seperately. Polk/Monitor-40 fronts ($149/pair), Polk/CS1 center ($69), Polk/Monitor-30 surrounds ($85/pair), BIC/V1220 sub woofer ($192 shipped) and either the Pioneer/920 or the Onkyo/508 (both $279).  That's about $800 for a complete 5.1 system.

 

Or you can get the Onkyo 5300 as a factory refurb with a 1 year warranty from Ac4l.com, an authorized dealer, for $339 + shipping. But the system above would perform much better.


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#12 of 17 Mike Frezon

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Posted August 17 2010 - 01:04 PM

Bryon:

 

Gene is right (as always).
 

If you want to fill a room that size, you don't want a passive sub (or probably a HTiB for that matter).
 

And don't demean the importance of good audio for a room mostly dedicated to sports viewing.  A kickass sound system can really make the difference for a sporting event.
 

And...to try and twist your arm a bit further...it's much better to make a good investment upfront to get it right and put off any urge to upgrade to much later!  /img/vbsmilies/htf/biggrin.gif


There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


HTF Rules | HTF Mission Statement | Father of the Bride

Dieting with my Dog & Heart to Heart/Hand in Paw by Peggy Frezon


#13 of 17 gene c

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Posted August 17 2010 - 03:08 PM

"Gene is right (as always)."

 

Been nippin' at the cooking Sherry again there Mike?

"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#14 of 17 Mike Frezon

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Posted August 17 2010 - 05:12 PM



Originally Posted by gene c 

"Gene is right (as always)."

 

Been nippin' at the cooking Sherry again there Mike?


Yeah.  *hic*

 

Gotta loosen up every once in a great while, ya know...  /img/vbsmilies/htf/biggrin.gif


There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


HTF Rules | HTF Mission Statement | Father of the Bride

Dieting with my Dog & Heart to Heart/Hand in Paw by Peggy Frezon


#15 of 17 btg34

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Posted August 18 2010 - 03:14 AM



Originally Posted by gene c 

Here's an example of a pretty good system with components purchased seperately. Polk/Monitor-40 fronts ($149/pair), Polk/CS1 center ($69), Polk/Monitor-30 surrounds ($85/pair), BIC/V1220 sub woofer ($192 shipped) and either the Pioneer/920 or the Onkyo/508 (both $279).  That's about $800 for a complete 5.1 system.

 

Or you can get the Onkyo 5300 as a factory refurb with a 1 year warranty from Ac4l.com, an authorized dealer, for $339 + shipping. But the system above would perform much better.


Gene,

 

I really appreciate your well thought-out responses.  The more I talk to you guys the more I'm leaning towards going with something a little over the budget.  I'd just hate to put together a nice basement all around, and then a lackluster sound system.  By no means am I looking for something to blow me away, but I would really like something that will sound good, and have the versatility to play music OK as well.  I'm afraid if I go cheap, I'll be unsatisfied in a year and then want to go with the more expensive option...

 

We'll see, maybe I'd be best suited to see if I run into any other budget overages before I splurge on the audio.  Thanks for all of the help everyone!



#16 of 17 Mike Frezon

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Posted August 18 2010 - 03:56 AM

Bryon:

 

You just better report back and let us know what you decided to do!  /img/vbsmilies/htf/smile.gif

 

BTW, if you are able to go and check out some gear at some local stores, see if you can get them to put up some sports for you on their sources so you get some kind of feel for how things might be for your own situation.

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


HTF Rules | HTF Mission Statement | Father of the Bride

Dieting with my Dog & Heart to Heart/Hand in Paw by Peggy Frezon


#17 of 17 Todd Erwin

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Posted August 18 2010 - 04:37 AM

I've seen the Onkyo 5300 for as low as $399 on Amazon, with FREE Super Saver Shipping.

 

In case someone hasn't mentioned it, you can run the 5300 with 5.1, the receiver will simply "fold down" any data for the unused surrounds into your 5.1 setup after programming it.






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