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Panasonic BD85/Yamaha rxv800: No subw sound when in 6ch output?


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#1 of 11 flycaster

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Posted August 04 2010 - 04:05 AM

My setup: Panny BD85, Panny 50v10, Yamaha rxv800 (no hdmi), Paradigm speakers (set to small) and a PDR-10 SubW.  As the 800 has no hdmi input, I have made sound connections between the 85 and the 800 via both an optical cable and analog cables.  My intent with this sound setup is to be able to hear lossless sound via Yamaha's 6ch input when watching a bluray disk, and to have digital lossy sound (via optical cable) when listening to music CDs and watching DVDs. I've gotten the internet interface to work and have updated to the latest firmware...which works fine.  However, I do have several questions that need answering, otherwise I will go crazy.


1. Dynamic compression is OFF
2. Digital audio output, both set to PMC
3. BD video secondary audio set to OFF
4. PMC down conversion set to OFF
5. Downmixing set at surroundsound encoded
6. 7.1 ch audio reformatting to OFF
7. High clarity sound set to DISABLE
8. 2ch+5.1 enabled
9. No audio via hdmi from player to TV


Now for the questions that arose when I was testing out the system with what may ahve been an inappropriate test disk (Non-HD DVD "Remember the Titans," that was coded for: dts, digital sound, Dolby Digital, THX.)


Sound questions with the assumption that I'm fairly certain that my cable wiring for the speakers and subW are correct.  SubW was boosted in the Yammy and crossover on subW put at maximum and volume of subW controlled manually, speakers set at small:


1.  When in 6ch output, no sound fom subW (turned subW's volume all the way up - no sound)?  SubW does work when playing through optical (both PCM and Bitstream).
2.  I have discovered how to get to the 85's sound testing (leveling), however when running the test, test sound only came through the L/R mains, no sound through the cc, rears or subW???

Thanks for your help...



#2 of 11 John Garcia

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Posted August 04 2010 - 09:21 AM

When using the analog inputs, all bass management and speaker settings are handled by the player; none of the settings in your receiver apply to the multichannel analog inputs.  In the player, do you have the sub set to ON and speakers set to small?  Are you SURE  you are switching to the 6ch input?  This is its own input and cannot be assigned to something like "DVD".  Playing only through the L&R main suggests that it is picking up the optical input which cannot handle lossless audio via PCM and the result is it only gives you the two mains, which is normal.  What options are available for downmix?


Make sure you turn the sub down before testing as you don't want to damage it as soon as you get it working.


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#3 of 11 flycaster

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Posted August 05 2010 - 12:54 AM




Originally Posted by John Garcia 

When using the analog inputs, all bass management and speaker settings are handled by the player; none of the settings in your receiver apply to the multichannel analog inputs...  Understood.


In the player, do you have the sub set to ON and speakers set to small?...See my item 2.  Although I ahve found out how to level via the player, the leveling seems to only apply to the L/R mains.  Furthermore, I ahve no idea how to do what you suggest within the player.


Are you SURE  you are switching to the 6ch input?  This is its own input and cannot be assigned to something like "DVD".  ...The switching is done via the Yammy.  Yes, 6ch output appears on the Yammy's display.


Playing only through the L&R main suggests that it is picking up the optical input which cannot handle lossless audio via PCM and the result is it only gives you the two mains, which is normal...This is interesting.  When I ran the test maybe I had the Yammy set to DVD (which gets signals from the optical) and not in 6ch (which is signaled from the analogs)???


What options are available for downmix?...Surroundsound Encoded and Stereo, my setting is the former one.


Make sure you turn the sub down before testing as you don't want to damage it as soon as you get it working...Definitely a good point, forgot about it.


EDIT:  Finally figured out how to assign size to speakers.  Made them small from large (while audio digital out was configured to PCM).  Once I did that, it appears that the SW started working in 6ch.


Another question: As all my speakers are Paradigms, do I have to do any reconfiguring/re-calibration when going between 6ch and optical...other than upping the SW output?



#4 of 11 gene c

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Posted August 05 2010 - 12:29 PM

I would (and do) re-calibrate the 6 ch input by using the individual speaker volume controls in the Panasonics setup menu where you found the speaker size settings. But don't change the Yamaha's settings as they pertain to the optical input. It's possible no adjustments need to be made but it doesn't hurt to check.


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#5 of 11 flycaster

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Posted August 05 2010 - 10:37 PM

Thanks, GeneC.  It has taken me a while to grasp the concepts in setting things up analog visa-vis digital.  But now with help from various forums, I finally think I can talk somewhat intelligently about what's involved.  Yeah, digital/bitstream/Yamaha control both SW and speakers, analog/PCM/player control setting dB/delays for speakers/manual control of SW after upping LFE in Yamaha.  And if I am lucky, being that the speakers are matched, I may not have to do much adjustment.



#6 of 11 gene c

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Posted August 06 2010 - 12:29 AM

It isn't whether the speakers are matched but whether the volume (for lack of a better word) of the signals sent from the 6 ch connection is close to that sent from the optical connection. In other words, maybe the 6 ch connection outputs the center channel a little hotter than the optical connection does. You would then lower the center channels volume in the players speaker setup menu. Things usually check out O.K. but it doesn't hurt to verify. After-all, you already know the sub woofer output is too low (which is an all too common problem with 6 ch outputs) might as well double-check the other 5 speakers as well.


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#7 of 11 flycaster

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Posted August 07 2010 - 02:08 AM



Originally Posted by gene c 

It isn't whether the speakers are matched but whether the volume (for lack of a better word) of the signals sent from the 6 ch connection is close to that sent from the optical connection....I was just thinking that with the speakers matched, there was a better likelihood that at least one variable was controlled.  In other words, maybe the 6 ch connection outputs the center channel a little hotter than the optical connection does. You would then lower the center channels volume in the players speaker setup menu. Things usually check out O.K. but it doesn't hurt to verify....Had to only make slight adjustments between the two sources.  After-all, you already know the sub woofer output is too low (which is an all too common problem with 6 ch outputs) might as well double-check the other 5 speakers as well.



But now my problem is that I'm not sure how to calibrate the speakers through the Yamaha rxv-800.  I've got the sound meter and Avia, but what I can't figure out is when I am playing a test sound from Avia (let's say the left main), how do I use the Yammy's controls to get the desired level out of that speaker?  For example, let's say that the test sound is at 80dB and I want to set the LM speaker to 85db, I've been simply upping the Yammy's volume dial to 85dB.  Now I follow the same procedure for the other speakers.  But when I give this procedure some thought, it seems to me that I'm not really "setting" the sound output for each speaker correctly as all I am doing is raising or lowering sound output for each speaker - but I can't see how this "sets" the volume output for each.  Again, test sounds per speaker via Avia playing on BD85, whcih controls on the Yammy allow for setting volume while listening/watching Avia?



I just re-read this mess and now think I may have a better understanding of what to do.  Please check me out. As I run the test sounds for each speaker, I am to TAKE NOTE (ie, write it down) how many dBs that speaker needs to be adjusted to reach the targeted sound level.  Then go into the Yammy and adjust the dBs for each speaker.

If I am right about this, my next problem is just where in the rxv-800 manual (http://www2.yamaha.c.../RX-V800kai.pdf) do I find how to do this? 





#8 of 11 gene c

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Posted August 07 2010 - 07:10 AM

Page 22 explaines the process. Use the "Level" button on the remote to change the speaker being adjusted and use the up and down buttons (above and below the Play button) to make the adjustment. Do them one at a time until you are satisfied with the results.

"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#9 of 11 flycaster

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Posted August 07 2010 - 11:10 PM

Yep, page 22 is the place to be.  I just needed to figure out how to adjust the sound levels while the test tone was playing.  Oanny's instructions could have been a little clearer... BTW, got my speakers balanced for Bitstream/6ch via the Panny BD85.  The bitstream was done via the Yamaha and 6ch via the BD85.  Got to say that 85 came out more as a compromise becasue its range of calibration was limited.  But, when listen to the sounds, I felt bitstream was somewhat fuller than 6ch, while the 6ch was a lot "crisper-clearer" than the bitstream.



#10 of 11 gene c

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Posted August 08 2010 - 03:29 AM

Glad to see you got it all sorted out. Even though speakers obviously make a much bigger difference in the performance of a system as a whole, electronics, and the way they are connected and configured, can play at least a small part as well.


BTW, most of us around here in your situation use the 6 ch connection only for Dolby TrueHD, DTS Master Audio, SACD and DVD-A. We use the optical connection for everything else.


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#11 of 11 flycaster

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Posted August 08 2010 - 04:34 AM




Originally Posted by gene c  .....

BTW, most of us around here in your situation use the 6 ch connection only for Dolby TrueHD, DTS Master Audio, SACD and DVD-A. We use the optical connection for everything else.


That's just the way I intend to use the setup.  However, I must say that a couple of weeks ago, before all this BD/AVR sound setting up, I wouldn't have appreciated youor direction on how to utilize the new setup.  Now I'm on my way to redo my harmony One RC.  Thanks again for your help.