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A few words about...™ Predator (2010 re-issue) -- in Blu-ray

A Few Words About

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#41 of 231 ONLINE   Worth

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Posted June 30 2010 - 02:08 AM



Originally Posted by JohnRice 

So, is it safe to say the 2 disc SE (SD-DVD) is probably the best release to date, image wise?


The original blu-ray looks much better than the 2 disc DVD.


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#42 of 231 OFFLINE   Don May Jr

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Posted June 30 2010 - 02:13 AM

I watched 15 minutes of this new version of PREDATOR last night and I couldn't take it... from just a few minutes in, I could see the waxiness in the faces... Carl Weathers looks even worse than Arnie (at least Arnie has facial scruff to offset the wax figure look somewhat).  But the waxiness wasn't the worst thing about it for me... it was the motion.  As people/things move quickly, they have an ever so slight, but VERY noticeable (to my eyes) strobe effect.  A typical side-effect of over processing/noise reduction.


At approx. 10 minutes in when the actors rappel out of the helicopter... All you have to do is look at the cables... as the people rappel down, the cables actually start disappearing into the sky.  Part of a cable starts to disappear, then a second later, magically reappears when the cable stops moving so fast.  The DNR starts attacking the image and removing things that are going too fast, and elements of the original film start vanishing just like in the awful GLADIATOR release.


It's an awful, awful presentation... and I shut it off.  I don't think I'll watch this version of the film ever again.


The funniest thing... the PREDATORS trailer that starts when you put in the new BD has a beautiful nicely textured sheen of grain...


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#43 of 231 OFFLINE   Steve Christou

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Posted June 30 2010 - 02:39 AM

Funny, didn't notice any of that when I watched it recently, maybe it's your machine? Contrast too high on the tv? Well that's tough, I thoroughly enjoyed the new look Predator. Blu-ray of the year? Maybe. /img/vbsmilies/htf/smile.gif


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#44 of 231 ONLINE   Worth

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Posted June 30 2010 - 02:46 AM



Originally Posted by Steve Christou 

Funny, didn't notice any of that when I watched it recently, maybe it's your machine? Contrast too high on the tv? Well that's tough, I thoroughly enjoyed the new look Predator. Blu-ray of the year? Maybe. /img/vbsmilies/htf/smile.gif


I find it strange that a fan of a film would be, not just okay, but actually prefer, a version that doesn't in the slightest resemble the original photography, but to each his own, I guess.


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#45 of 231 OFFLINE   Todd H

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Posted June 30 2010 - 03:05 AM



Originally Posted by Steve Christou 

Funny, didn't notice any of that when I watched it recently, maybe it's your machine? Contrast too high on the tv? Well that's tough, I thoroughly enjoyed the new look Predator. Blu-ray of the year? Maybe. /img/vbsmilies/htf/smile.gif


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#46 of 231 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted June 30 2010 - 03:17 AM

     Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth 

I find it strange that a fan of a film would be, not just okay, but actually prefer, a version that doesn't in the slightest resemble the original photography, but to each his own, I guess.



For an HT message board, I find it really weird too. Like you said though, to each their own.



#47 of 231 OFFLINE   Russell G

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Posted June 30 2010 - 03:37 AM



Originally Posted by Worth 




I find it strange that a fan of a film would be, not just okay, but actually prefer, a version that doesn't in the slightest resemble the original photography, but to each his own, I guess.



Maybe it looked good on his set up?  And maybe it looked good on Fox's set up when they mastered it?  I haven't seen the disc yet on my set up, so I can't comment.  I know that when I watch Blus at a friends place, they almost always look like shit and sound wonk compared to at my place.


#48 of 231 OFFLINE   Steve Christou

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Posted June 30 2010 - 03:44 AM

Look, it's the heatwave we're having here in London, makes people react strangely. Well that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. /img/vbsmilies/htf/smiley_wink.gif


Maybe Mr. Harris can tell us if there will be a recall on this title, since the 3 or 4 people here, not counting myself,  who have actually seen it have found it so objectionable and unwatchable. If there is an improved edition in the future I will be buying it again, but I will be keeping the DNR edition as a souvenir. /img/vbsmilies/htf/smile.gif


Dave hören... auf, wille stoppen sie Dave... stoppen sie Dave... Mein gehirn geht... Ich bin gefühl es... Ich bin gefühl es... Ich bin ängstlich Dave... Guter Nachmittag. Ich bin ein HAL 9000 computer. Ich wurde funktionsfähig am HAL-Betrieb in Urbana, Illinois auf January 12 1992.


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#49 of 231 OFFLINE   Nick Graham

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Posted June 30 2010 - 04:59 AM



Originally Posted by Don May Jr 

I watched 15 minutes of this new version of PREDATOR last night and I couldn't take it... from just a few minutes in, I could see the waxiness in the faces... Carl Weathers looks even worse than Arnie (at least Arnie has facial scruff to offset the wax figure look somewhat).  But the waxiness wasn't the worst thing about it for me... it was the motion.  As people/things move quickly, they have an ever so slight, but VERY noticeable (to my eyes) strobe effect.  A typical side-effect of over processing/noise reduction.


At approx. 10 minutes in when the actors rappel out of the helicopter... All you have to do is look at the cables... as the people rappel down, the cables actually start disappearing into the sky.  Part of a cable starts to disappear, then a second later, magically reappears when the cable stops moving so fast.  The DNR starts attacking the image and removing things that are going too fast, and elements of the original film start vanishing just like in the awful GLADIATOR release.


It's an awful, awful presentation... and I shut it off.  I don't think I'll watch this version of the film ever again.


The funniest thing... the PREDATORS trailer that starts when you put in the new BD has a beautiful nicely textured sheen of grain...


That strobe effect is awful - I think it's the perfect storm of too much DNR, the smoke from Weather's cigar, and the ceiling fan above them sending the DNR software into a fritz.



#50 of 231 OFFLINE   Fritz Nilsen

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Posted June 30 2010 - 06:05 AM



Originally Posted by Nick Graham 

and the ceiling fan above them sending the DNR software into a fritz.


HEY! /img/vbsmilies/htf/wink.gif



#51 of 231 OFFLINE   cineMANIAC

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Posted June 30 2010 - 06:11 AM

Has anyone viewed this disc on a 40" or smaller monitor, or even an older tube set and noticed any improvement in PQ? With all the different screen types and sizes out there maybe some setups aren't able to handle motion artifacts. Of course, they shouldn't be making Blu-rays to be watched on Reagan-era TVs but what if someone at Fox is using inappropriate equipment when they're testing transfers? Just a thought


 

 


#52 of 231 OFFLINE   Shawn DuHast

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Posted June 30 2010 - 07:10 AM

Well Done RAH speaking as an Englishman that was an excellent post and a superb example of English Dry Wit!


I knew Steve was doing the same when I saw his location as London and 12,500+ posts.



It seems to be getting worse with lazy/bad releases on BD just look at The Man With No Name Trilogy, Dark City, Pans Labyrinth, the infamous Patton, Audition, Ran, Gladiator, with those just off the top of my head.


Shame but this tells us that these particular companies (as there are some others doing a stirling job) just view this as another cash cow to milked as cheaply as possible for the maximum amount possible.../img/vbsmilies/htf/frown.gif


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#53 of 231 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted June 30 2010 - 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn DuHast 

Well Done RAH speaking as an Englishman that was an excellent post and a superb example of English Dry Wit!


I knew Steve was doing the same when I saw his location as London and 12,500+ posts.



It seems to be getting worse with lazy/bad releases on BD just look at The Man With No Name Trilogy, Dark City, Pans Labyrinth, the infamous Patton, Audition, Ran, Gladiator, with those just off the top of my head.


Shame but this tells us that these particular companies (as there are some others doing a stirling job) just view this as another cash cow to milked as cheaply as possible for the maximum amount possible.../img/vbsmilies/htf/frown.gif


Except that this is not at all typical for a Fox release.





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#54 of 231 OFFLINE   Jesse Blacklow

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Posted June 30 2010 - 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn DuHast 
It seems to be getting worse with lazy/bad releases on BD just look at The Man With No Name Trilogy, Dark City, Pans Labyrinth, the infamous Patton, Audition, Ran, Gladiator, with those just off the top of my head.
Shame but this tells us that these particular companies (as there are some others doing a stirling job) just view this as another cash cow to milked as cheaply as possible for the maximum amount possible.../img/vbsmilies/htf/frown.gif


/img/vbsmilies/htf/confused.gif


Most of the titles you listed are from two years ago, and were actually followed up with better quality titles from their studios, Fox in particular.


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#55 of 231 OFFLINE   Steve Christou

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Posted June 30 2010 - 07:48 AM

I still think it's the heat, we don't always get a heatwave during the summer here.


So I should skip Dark City than eh? Stubble-free?


Dave hören... auf, wille stoppen sie Dave... stoppen sie Dave... Mein gehirn geht... Ich bin gefühl es... Ich bin gefühl es... Ich bin ängstlich Dave... Guter Nachmittag. Ich bin ein HAL 9000 computer. Ich wurde funktionsfähig am HAL-Betrieb in Urbana, Illinois auf January 12 1992.


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#56 of 231 OFFLINE   Cees Alons

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Posted June 30 2010 - 08:15 AM

Mind the heat.

It could melt the wax.


Oh, and sometimes, just sometimes, it pays to buy new releases as soon as possible: I have the previous BD (and the SDVD), and I'm going to stick to it.



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#57 of 231 OFFLINE   Will_B

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Posted June 30 2010 - 12:16 PM

I've got to say though, that as overboard as they may have gone, technology to eliminate grain is clearly improving. There are details, in eyebrows for example on the very first image link below, that would have become blurs previously, which are now still present even as every bit of grain was scrubbed away. It seems as if the DNR technology is now capable of preserving highlights. However, mid-tones still end up blurry (see the green paint on his cheek in the same image). And shadows, blurry as well.


But even so, it is notable that the technology is now at least preserving a third of the detail (the highlights).


If this development continues, it might actually work through the whole range someday soon.


It is a remarkable technical achievement, even if it isn't perfect yet.


Some caps other threads have mentioned:


Old/New

http://www.imagebam..../0cc18084037004

http://www.imagebam..../e3120984037007

Old/New:

http://media.cinemas...0344_lrg_01.png

http://img.filmsactu....04ad91c613.jpg


Old/New (and so on -- you'll be able to tell which is which, believe me):


http://www.darkrealm...dator_MPEG2.png

http://www.darkrealm...edator2_New.jpg

http://www.darkrealm...tor_MPEG2_2.png

http://www.darkrealm...edator1_New.jpg

http://www.darkrealm...edator3_New.jpg

http://www.darkrealm...tor_MPEG2_3.png

http://www.darkrealm...ator_MPEG_5.png

http://www.darkrealm...edator5_New.jpg


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#58 of 231 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted June 30 2010 - 01:53 PM



Originally Posted by Will_B 

I've got to say though, that as overboard as they may have gone, technology to eliminate grain is clearly improving. There are details, in eyebrows for example on the very first image link below, that would have become blurs previously, which are now still present even as every bit of grain was scrubbed away. It seems as if the DNR technology is now capable of preserving highlights. However, mid-tones still end up blurry (see the green paint on his cheek in the same image). And shadows, blurry as well.


But even so, it is notable that the technology is now at least preserving a third of the detail (the highlights).


If this development continues, it might actually work through the whole range someday soon.


It is a remarkable technical achievement, even if it isn't perfect yet.



You're not seeing details.  What is on screen is contrast.  As I've said, the software is perfected.


Elsewhere.




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#59 of 231 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

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Posted June 30 2010 - 02:42 PM

I think one of the big problems is that the picture has been brightened, along with the grain reduction. To me, the combination flattens the image considerably. The old version may have had its problems with artifacts but the picture in the old version creates a feeling of dimensionality compared to the new version. The picture with the chopper demonstrates the effect. In the old version the grain gives the chopper some dimensionality. In the new version, the chopper looks flat. Along with the grain, the illusion of depth has been eliminated throughout the picture.


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#60 of 231 OFFLINE   THX 5150

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Posted June 30 2010 - 03:35 PM

I recommend the CLV version on Laserdisc. There is one on eBay with a Buy It Now price of $4.00 which if you include the value of the Movie Cash included with the new release you still come out ahead by $1.00.

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