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Wondering if a new receiver will make much difference.


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#1 of 17 Guest__*

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Posted June 04 2010 - 07:19 AM

I currently have a new Samsung LCD, new Sony Blu Ray and an old Yamaha RXV-992.  I'm considering a new Pioneer VSX 820 to replace the Yamaha, but I'm just wondering if I'll see/hear any real difference.


And if I make the move, do I want to use HDMI cables to hook everything together, or keep component cables?


Thanks in advance for any opinions.



#2 of 17 OFFLINE   Joseph DeMartino

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Posted June 04 2010 - 07:50 AM

By all accounts you'll hear a big difference with the new HD sound formats on Blu Ray, which your Yamaha does not support.  Can't swear to that, since my current receiver doesn't support them, either.  /img/vbsmilies/htf/laugh.gif


You may or may not see a big difference in picture quality between component and HDMI video.  That depends on a combination of screen resoulution, size and the distance you sit from it.  You'd probably see noticable improvement on a 1080p 65" TV from 10 feet away while hardly seeing any difference if you have a 42" 720p (768p for LCD) set from the same distance.


I would definitely go all HDMI if I made the switch though, if only to simplify the cabling.  Any reason you're looking at the Pioneer rather than a newer Yamaha?  Just curious.  I have an Onkyo that lacks HDMI and I think if I replace it (which I may within the next 12 months) it'll probably be with another Onkyo, because I'm happy with the one I have except that I need more and better connections.

Regards,


Joe


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And welcome to the forum!  /img/vbsmilies/htf/popcorn.gif



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Posted June 04 2010 - 08:05 AM

Thanks for the quick response!


One store, which shall remain nameless, said Denon and Pioneer have substantially better video processors than the Yamaha line (which they also sell).  I liked the low price of the Pioneer 520, but decided the features of the 820 were worth the price upgrade.

By no means do I have brand loyalty.  I've owned Denon, Pioneer and other Yamaha's in the past.

I don't run anything by cable and movies through this system.


Thanks for any suggestions and thoughts you have.


G




#4 of 17 OFFLINE   Jason Charlton

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Posted June 04 2010 - 08:12 AM


Originally Posted by Gary Kelly 

And if I make the move, do I want to use HDMI cables to hook everything together, or keep component cables?


Keep in mind that the only ways to even GET the lossless audio from Blu-Ray is via HDMI or through discrete analog audio outs (not available on all players).  Digital optical and digital coaxial audio connections WILL NOT carry Dolby HD or DTS-MA.


But I do agree with Joe - the difference between lossy DD and lossless audio was much more significant than I ever expected it to be.  In particular, I find the clarity of dialog and the center channel in general to be MUCH improved over lossy.


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#5 of 17 OFFLINE   Joseph DeMartino

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Posted June 04 2010 - 08:25 AM


 One store, which shall remain nameless, said Denon and Pioneer have substantially better video processors than the Yamaha line (which they also sell). 


Well, I can't speak to that - but the receiver shouldn't have to process any HD video that it is getting over HDMI.  Video processing only comes into play if it you're upscaling non-HD input to send to the TV via HDMI, or changing resolutions for some other reason at the receiver stage.  If you have a 1080p TV it is going to scale any non-1080p material to its native resolution anyway.  I suppose the other brands might do a better job of scaling than Yamaha - but then so might your Blu Ray player, upconverting DVD player or TV.

 Keep in mind that the only ways to even GET the lossless audio from Blu-Ray is via HDMI...


Yeah, I had intended to mention this, but somehow forgot.  Thanks for pointing it out.


Regards,


Joe



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Posted June 04 2010 - 09:55 AM




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Posted June 04 2010 - 10:12 AM

So we are really only talking about the sound of the system, not really talking about video (I'm viewing a 46" screen from about 12 feet).  What I notice right now is that with my rear speakers they seldom have any sounds(and they are turned up all the way)....maybe a bird or someone clapping once in a great while.  Will that change with lossless audio?



#8 of 17 OFFLINE   Joseph DeMartino

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Posted June 04 2010 - 12:12 PM


What I notice right now is that with my rear speakers they seldom have any sounds(and they are turned up all the way)....maybe a bird or someone clapping once in a great while.  Will that change with lossless audio?


Probably not, because the surround channels are only there for atmosphere and occasional effects  You don't hear a lot of sound from the surround channels in a theater, either, unless you're watching an action flick or big SFX film.  That's assuming you're currently hearing full discrete 5.1 sound.  How do you have your digital cable box and Blu Zone connected to your Yamaha?  What the HD formats will be are clearer and more distinct when you're watching a BD disc with one of them, but you won't get any more from the surrounds with DTS Master-HD than with regular DTS 5.1 on a soundtrack that doesn't use the surrounds a lot.


Regards,


Joe



#9 of 17 OFFLINE   David Willow

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Posted June 04 2010 - 02:53 PM

Gary,

Which speakers do you have?



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Posted June 04 2010 - 11:26 PM

I've got a set of Polk speakers....also 10 years old, but they really hadn't been used much until recently, if that makes any difference.



#11 of 17 OFFLINE   LorenaVelasco

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Posted June 04 2010 - 11:31 PM

Keep in mind that the only ways to even GET the lossless audio from Blu-Ray is via HDMI or through discrete analog audio outs (not available on all players).  Digital optical and digital coaxial audio connections WILL NOT carry Dolby HD or DTS-MA.


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#12 of 17 OFFLINE   David Willow

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Posted June 05 2010 - 04:20 AM

Thanks Gary,


Age is not overly important when it comes to speakers.  Just make sure all the drivers are working and there's no visible damage.  I was more concerned about the resistance (ohms).  It will make a difference in the receiver you have to get.  Sometimes the lower end receivers have trouble with 4ohm speakers.  Plus, if you would have said something from a home theater in a box, they could have been 2 or 3 ohm, making things much worse.  The Pioneer you are looking at would have a problem 4ohm speakers.


Double check your Polks to make sure they are compatible.

Also, before you look to a new receiver, make sure your current setup is optimized.  If your current AVR has an internal setup program (with a mic), run it.  If not, try to get an SPL meter and balance the speakers (make them all the same level using the internal test tones).  This step alone will have a huge impact on the sound.


Lastly, the Pioneer you are looking at will not decode the new HD formats.  I would consider the Denon 1910 or Onkyo 607 instead.



#13 of 17 OFFLINE   Joseph DeMartino

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Posted June 05 2010 - 05:13 AM



Originally Posted by David Willow 

Lastly, the Pioneer you are looking at will not decode the new HD formats.  I would consider the Denon 1910 or Onkyo 607 instead.


????  This is what the Pioneer spec sheet for the VSX-802 says:


 All new Pioneer receivers are equipped to decode new HD Audio formats including Dolby True HD® and DTS Master® now with the new Dolby ProLogic IIz height channel.


Am I missing something?


Joe



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Posted June 05 2010 - 06:00 AM

What do you guys think of the Denon 591 instead of the Pioneer?  The big difference I see between the two is the Pioneer doesn't come with a video converter.  The Denon has a slight power advantage and the Pioneer has slightly lower THD, neither of which I figure will amount to a hill of beans.


Thanks for the opinions!


G




#15 of 17 OFFLINE   David Willow

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Posted June 05 2010 - 06:22 AM



Originally Posted by Joseph DeMartino 




????  This is what the Pioneer spec sheet for the VSX-802 says:



Am I missing something?


Joe


You are correct.  Not sure what I was looking at.  I opened the user manual and product guide and read the same thing you did.  Maybe I should 'start' drinking..../img/vbsmilies/htf/laugh.gif



#16 of 17 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted June 05 2010 - 08:16 AM

Performance wise I'd put the 591 just slightly ahead of the 820 (my brother has a 1610-same as the 590) but for me Denons are very difficult to setup and use. And their remotes are not the best.


With the 591, I would turn off the video processing in the receiver. Your tv and BR player will be as good or better than the 591 in that regard.


It appears the lower end Denons and Onkyo's (and H/K's) are a bit stronger than lower end Pioneers and Yamaha's but Polk speakers (except LSi's and other Polk 4 ohm speakers) are usually very easy to drive so power shouldn't be much of an issue.


Any receiver that's been mentioned so far should be a good up-grade to your older Yamaha as far as features, connections and compatability with modern equipment is concerned, even if over-all sound quality turns out to be not that much of an improvement. But this comes from someone who can't seem to let go of an old (but yummy  /img/vbsmilies/htf/yum.gif ) H/K 520. I need help /img/vbsmilies/htf/frown.gif





"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
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Posted June 05 2010 - 11:19 AM

Thanks to everyone.