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#1 of 12 OFFLINE   Ted Todorov

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Posted June 01 2010 - 07:32 AM

So Google just banned Windows from all in-house use, the stated reason being security concerns.  They are switching their users to mostly Mac OS X plus some Linux.

  Meanwhile Rob Enderle is claiming that Apple "fifth columnists" working inside Microsoft (Robbie Bach is named as such) are responsible for its recent misfortunes.  Also Apple sleeper agents did in HP, Dell, Palm from inside...  I'm not going give Enderle page views, but if you wish to see the extent of his brain damage up close, Daring Fireball has a link.   Add to all this the cancellation of just about every possible iPad competitor from the HP Slate to the MS Courier, to the Lenovo (I don't remember the name) tablet, and you do have to stare, slack jawed, at all the help Apple is getting from its competitors...
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#2 of 12 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

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Posted June 01 2010 - 07:42 AM

Yeah, I wanted to post that article but didn't know where to put it.  Quite possibly the dumbest thing you will read all year:




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#3 of 12 OFFLINE   DaveF

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Posted June 01 2010 - 08:36 AM

People will write anything to meet their deadline, I guess. (rolleyes)


The joke in my field is: We don't have to be the best, only less sucky than our competitors. For all Apple's issues -- they're not perfect -- their competitors manage to fumble most everything.


I wonder if HP has got the juice to make a real play with webOS, or will we see a large, outdated company squander a great bit of software?



#4 of 12 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

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Posted June 01 2010 - 08:59 AM

I WANT to believe!

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#5 of 12 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

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Posted June 02 2010 - 10:21 AM

I never get all of the love for APPLE.


"You bring a horse for me?" "Looks like......looks like we're shy of one horse." "No.......You brought two too many."

#6 of 12 OFFLINE   DaveF

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Posted June 02 2010 - 10:27 AM

I guess you've not used their products, or the products of their competitors :)



#7 of 12 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

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Posted June 02 2010 - 10:40 AM

Outside of Quicktime, the last APPLE product I used was an APPLE II+. I don't like APPLEs obsessive drive to implement proprietary software and hardware solutions. That was one reason that I never bought an Ipod. The other reason was the ridiculous price they were charging. I looked at an Ipad and it just looks like more of APPLEs overpriced, proprietary hardware. I will admit that it does look impressive from a design sense, but 800 bucks Canadian (before taxes) is too much scratch to lay down for a 64GB proprietary video player/reader. I suppose you can also play games with it, but I think that would be awkward since it uses a touch interface.


"You bring a horse for me?" "Looks like......looks like we're shy of one horse." "No.......You brought two too many."

#8 of 12 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

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Posted June 02 2010 - 10:43 AM

I should add that I'd be scared that someone would rip the thing off, being as it is relatively compact and easy to steal.


"You bring a horse for me?" "Looks like......looks like we're shy of one horse." "No.......You brought two too many."

#9 of 12 OFFLINE   mattCR

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Posted June 02 2010 - 11:19 AM

I've used and continue to use both to a great extent.  I do understand why people love apple.  As someone who works in IT, I also understand why a lot of business hate it :)


I think sometimes we get so tied up in a horserace between the two we don't realize their really isn't a horserace at all.  We focus on Marketcap, which is relevant as far as investment, but neither company is going into the poorhouse tomorrow, and nobody in the US really wants that to happen.


These are two of the largest IP/Patent holders in the world, and even if you aren't a dedicated fan of one or the other, but have provided IP that has changed the way we compute... on all platforms.

Someone a few pages back pointed to the statement about Jobs believing that the OS war was lost a long time ago; and Jobs is basically right.   Love or hate Windows, it's installed base will always be about 10-20 times that of Apple users.  This isn't a good or bad to Apple, it's just market reality...


A big part of it is what drives devotion and value for Apple, though.

Microsoft has managed to craft a system geared at the business world with a cohesive ecosystem that swallows up vertical markets whole, and offers them direct solutions that otherwise don't exist and can be completely niche offerings.


I'll just throw out some examples:


Uniform PCI-Access cards, which provide service data on cars like: Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes.. and USB tools which access common makes like Honda, GM, Ford... all feed into vertical market apps like "AllData" or "Mitchell"... Mechanics systems which just don't exist elsewhere


Medical billing and management software for Dental labs, like Dentrix, Eaglesoft.


Point of Sale systems, etc. etc. etc.


Microsoft has managed to run a steam roller over vertical markets.  And a big part of what helps them is that they can offer something Mac has no intent of ever offering: "We can provide you tools to completely lock access out to your users, to control what they can do, and get reports on them, etc."


So, I wouldn't boo-hoo for MS.  Just as I don't boo-hoo for IBM.  They aren't "pop culture" as Apple, but I seriously doubt MS is crying in it's buckets over the $14.8B in profit it made last year (apple had 8.4B in profit for it's FY).


Both companies do very well.  Their valuation isn't really tied to how much money they bring in, but based on future expectations.


This is where things I think get very tricky for both, but a bit trickier for Apple.


Microsoft bet a big part of it's future on a set core of businesses that are pretty well locked into it's product and unlikely to be able to consider huge alternatives, not because MS is evil, but because the third party apps that control their market are all Windows.  On the other end, MS has a hugely diversified investment base across a ton of brands, which helps hold it's own.


Apple has a different situation.  Apple is Apple.  And when Apple is "HOT" there is nothing better as far as earning money and setting up an Ecosystem.  Apple's Itunes may be the most effective ecosystem and money making device setup in decades.  It's unique method puts apple at the forefront, and it's iPhone dashes it into the front of smart phone technologies, etc.


But for as much as people "ooh and ahhh" about iPad, when I see a demo of the new Toshiba swivel books - the touchscreen billing systems hospitals use for years, running a new platform, I think to myself: ching ching ching.  The ipad is cool - and will sell more volume.  But that software for the vendor?  You're talking a few hundred grand.  The swivel books?  say, $2k a piece.  The fact that they have the component to interface with the hospital billing system?  Priceless.


Apple gets a lot of love from consumers for "doing things right" and I will commend them on that too.  I think there are times they have missed, but they've also had some great successes.


But where MS has to get some credit is that they don't design really much of the hardware (outside of their KB and Mouse, and you find me a Mac user who loves the non-ergonomic pain in the hand circle puck apple mouse of old or even the newer trim version vs. any of the ergonomic offerings from MS or Logitech, and that person is too far into Apple's pocket)  but the provide a very vertical ecosystem that has allowed a huge number of developers to slice apart individual shares and do something with it.


There are a few showdowns ahead that I think will be very interesting for all companies.


Cars:


Google will now be a big part of GM's Onstar

Microsoft is rolling with Ford for more cars with Sync


Phones:


Apple has iPhone

Google has Android

MS has (tons of phones, different manufacturers)  CE7 and Win7Mobile and Kin


Video Services:


Apple has Itunes

Google has YouTube and soon GoogleOnDemand

MS has InternetTV, MediaRoom


Cloud Services


Google & MS both preparing large global cloud networks

Apple (unknown?)



And so on..


Whether you love Apple and hate MS.  Or you Love Google and hate others.  Or you love MS and hate Apple.. (then again, I don't love/hate any of them, I like the tools that work, ditch the ones that suck)


The fact that all of them are issuing out record number of incredible, absolutely incredible patents on technologies is a benefit to all of us.


15 years ago, I received in my betas of OS/2 Merlin.  My, have things changed since then.  I spent today downloading betas and trying a few, I'll load up some others later.


But all of us benefit from the competition.  Everyone.  And I think web pundits who are so quick to write off MS or Apple or Google are fools.  None of them are going anywhere.  And we are all glad about that ;)


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#10 of 12 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

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Posted June 03 2010 - 02:22 AM

Well said.


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#11 of 12 OFFLINE   Ted Todorov

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Posted June 03 2010 - 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwin-S 
I never get all of the love for APPLE.

...

Outside of Quicktime, the last APPLE product I used was an APPLE II+. I don't like APPLEs obsessive drive to implement proprietary software and hardware solutions.  That was one reason that I never bought an Ipod.

I'll bite: I started out as an IBM PC (DOS) programmer.  In 1983, in college I was writing video games in 8088 assembler.  My first job after college I wrote a PC email system.  But the first computer I owned was the original 128K Macintosh -- I was on the university store waiting list to get one and received it in March of 1984.


The Mac was so far ahead of the PC it might as well have come from another planet.  It stayed that way for a decade.  I loved it and by extension Apple for having produced this incredible thing.  The first thing I did on my Mac as soon as I got my hands on the ultra buggy development tools was to use the font editor to transform "New York", their Times Roman font clone, into Cyrillic with a transliterated keyboard layout -- I could write/edit letters using MacWrite in Bulgarian, print on the ImageWriter and they looked great!  It was a freaking miracle.

I'd like to address "APPLE II+. I don't like APPLEs obsessive drive to implement proprietary software and hardware ".


This makes no sense.  Linux didn't exist in the post Apple II+ days, so anything you got was by definition proprietary.  DOS was every bit as proprietary as Mac OS and so is WIndows.  Nowadays, Windows is still 100% closed source, while some major pieces of Mac OS X are open source (Darwin, etc.) as is their browser's rendering engine -- Webkit.

A Dell is made of similar components to Mac -- there is nothing more proprietary in the latter.  A Zune is every bit as proprietary as an iPod.


I'm not saying you should be using or much less love things Apple, but unless Edwin is a pseudonym  for Richard Stallman or you use the exact same totally open hardware/software as Stallman does, you need a different justification.

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#12 of 12 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

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Posted June 03 2010 - 04:56 AM

I attended a talk by St. I-GNU-cius er RMS er Richard Stallman a few weeks ago:




He was very charming and funny but I got the feeling that he doesnt even completely believe all of his own hyperbole any more...


The bottom line is that EVERYONE and every company has a right to pick and choose from which open or closed systems, tools and mindsets they wish to use and sticking completely to one company's tools or to an extreme political ideal in today's vastly heterogeneous environment is madness.   Even companies like Google which strongly support open standards keep some of their most valuable things proprietary, their PageRank algorithm for example...

Personally I love Apple products but disagree with a lot of their politics, but they are just one part (perhaps the most important part, but still!) of a very mixed environment of stuff I run.  And when they close things off that I think should be open, I will criticise them to a point and then patronize their competition.  If its got bits and/or pixels I'm all for it.  =)


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