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What is the virtue of buying a higher end receiver as opposed to a lower end one?


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19 replies to this topic

#1 of 20 Howard_S

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Posted December 12 2001 - 02:19 PM

In terms of HT sound how much difference would we see in say between the Denon 3802 and the 4802 or even the 3802 and a beast like the 49tx. The price difference is obviously huge and the 3802 is obviously not in the same league as the 49tx in any measure. But would the average person hear the difference between the 3802 and the 49tx in movies when they're not in a big room nor are they listening near reference levels?

#2 of 20 Saurav

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Posted December 12 2001 - 04:22 PM

Quote:
But would the average person hear the difference between the 3802 and the 49tx in movies when they're not in a big room nor are they listening near reference levels?

IMO, yes. Would that difference be worth the price difference? That's a purely personal judgement call, and I don't think anyone else can answer that question for you. They can tell you the conclusions they arrived at, but that's a different thing.

#3 of 20 Howard_S

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Posted December 12 2001 - 05:52 PM

That's what I thought. But a lot of people seem so happy with the receivers they bought for a thousand dollars or even a couple hundred of dollars that it got me thinking of being thrifty.

#4 of 20 PatrickM

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Posted December 12 2001 - 06:03 PM

Howard,

There are differences between receivers of different levels but just because they cost more doesn't mean they sound better all the time. But, for the good receiver companies out there like Denon, Onkyo, etc. you will find distinct differences between receivers of different levels.

I've heard various Denon receivers and presently own a 5800 and I believe the 5800 sounds the best but its also pretty hefty in price compared to the others.

Get the best one you can afford. You should be able to get some good deals this boxing day at A&B, Audio Video Unlimited and even Futureshop.

Patrick

#5 of 20 Howard_S

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Posted December 12 2001 - 06:35 PM

I'm currently in love with the 49tx. That won't be on sale come boxing day will it? Posted Image

Ya I know. I'm just trying to convince myself that buying the 49tx and spending that kind of money on a receiver is the way to go.

#6 of 20 Guest_John Morris_*

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Posted December 12 2001 - 06:59 PM

Howard: Have you compared the 49tx to say the 3802? IMEO, I find that the difference in high end versus middle road receivers is in the sonic clarity, and the lack of noise. That's it. Of course, you have to have the speakers which can discern those differences during music and HT playback or else you are wasting your money. So, I am back to asking... have you tried these receivers with your system yet?

#7 of 20 Howard_S

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Posted December 12 2001 - 08:36 PM

I have not tried the receivers with my system yet. However I have auditioned the 49tx a bit. I have Paradigms all around w/ 60s as my mains and ADP150s in the back. I plan to move the 150s into the back and have studio ADPs as my sides.

The set up for the 49tx was studio 40s as mains and studio ADPs as rears. The place where I listened to was not an ideal place of course. It was not in one of their rooms. Like you said John, what I noticed was that the sonic clarity compared to my system at home. I have yet to audition the 3802 because I wasn't thinking about it at all until now. But ya the 49tx sounded awesome to me. It does run a bit hot but it was really quiet and everything seems so much more clear like you said. I'm no expert so that's all I can really say about it. But I guess I really need more modes for comparison since I'm comparing it to what I have at home.

#8 of 20 Guest_John Morris_*

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Posted December 12 2001 - 08:43 PM

Howard: It sounds like you WANT the 49tx. I have no experience with that receiver so... I say get that sucker! IMO, if you listen to some component and like it, and then get another unit... you are always gonna compare it, in your biased mind, to the one you really wanted. And you are usually gonna be disappointed in your mind. So, if you already heard the 49tx and like it... GET IT. Let us all know how it all turned out... but don't blame me for anything!Posted Image

#9 of 20 DougO

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Posted December 13 2001 - 01:30 AM

I'm in the same boat: trying to optimize a purchase.
Since I'm a tough critic and overly analytical, I can tell you that you can spend the most money on the latest and greatest stuff and still be left wondering "what if?" Conversely, you can minimize the budget and still wonder "what if?" My approach, which I'm trying hard to follow, is to first identify the price point I think I want to start out at, and then write down the features I must have, want to have, and could live without.

Now I have put a stick in the ground. This is key.
Else, just go buy the most expensive thing and don't look back ...

Keep in mind no owner's manual is going to tell you everything something does or does not do either, so unless you do in-home demos you will be increasing the likelihood that "buyer's remorse" will creep into your mind.

Get those devices in house and make them do the things on your list. Everything is very likely to sound good, so make good notes on ergonomics. Make note of things you cannot believe the manufacturer left out (or put in). Get the next unit in house, and so on. If you need to move your "stick" into another price level do so. I think it is easier to determine the "point of diminishing return" if you start at your least price point range and move up (if you are so inclined). Right now though your range seems to be a bit broad. Go find a stick already!

#10 of 20 Miles_W

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Posted December 13 2001 - 02:00 AM

Howard,
all I can recommend is get what you want, don't go second guessing yourself. Also the Margins on Elite equipment are Huge, Bargin, Bargin, Bargin... you should be able to get a great deal if it is what you want!

Miles
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#11 of 20 Pete Jennings

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Posted December 13 2001 - 02:51 AM

There's always the hubba hubba factor. Posted Image

Pete
High Definition baby, yeah!

#12 of 20 JaleelK

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Posted December 13 2001 - 03:06 AM

Quote:
There are differences between receivers of different levels but just because they cost more doesn't mean they sound better all the time. But, for the good receiver companies out there like Denon, Onkyo, etc. you will find distinct differences between receivers of different levels.


I'm willing to bet, if you did a blind level matched listening test between the Denon 4800 and the 5800, you couldn't tell the difference in sound. Those receivers sound exactly alike, I could tell the difference between the two in a sighted listening test.

#13 of 20 Barrett

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Posted December 13 2001 - 03:27 AM

Although there can be noticeable differences in sound quality between $2000+, $1000, and $500 receivers, that's obviously not the only difference. As a (perhaps overly broad) generalization, the flagship receivers are intended for large listening rooms, even full-blown dedicated home theaters. That means they've got tons of power (needed to pump out theater-volume sound in large spaces), and they also have lots more connection options (especially # of S-video inputs, # of digital audio inputs) for integrating a large number of source components. If you're going to set up your system in an apartment or smaller single-family home, massive amplifier power might be overkill, and with (say) a VCR, DVD player, digital satellite system, and CD recorder, you may have half the inputs of a more expensive receiver sitting unused. In both cases, you've paid for more receiver than you can really use. And as was mentioned before, if you've got a budget to mid-fi speaker system, it might not be able to really show off the difference in sound quality between the extravagantly expensive flagship receivers and the more realistic $1000 step-up models; based on your speakers, you again may be paying for more receiver than you can really take advantage of.

As always with audio gear, try to arrange an in-home audition and let your ears decide if the improvement in sound quality is worth the huge price differential -- or whether the extra money could better be spent on upgrading speakers/subwoofer, adding other desired source components, or buying the software to play back in your system. Good luck!

#14 of 20 Saurav

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Posted December 13 2001 - 03:30 AM

I was wondering when JaleelK would chime in... an amp comparision thread just isn't complete otherwise Posted Image

Just messing with you... no offense intended.

#15 of 20 Guest_John Morris_*

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Posted December 13 2001 - 03:43 AM

Since we're making bets now, I'll wager that a Sherwood Newcastle R-956 sounds as transparent as a Denon 5800.Posted Image

#16 of 20 PatrickM

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Posted December 13 2001 - 04:16 AM

Quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are differences between receivers of different levels but just because they cost more doesn't mean they sound better all the time. But, for the good receiver companies out there like Denon, Onkyo, etc. you will find distinct differences between receivers of different levels.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I'm willing to bet, if you did a blind level matched listening test between the Denon 4800 and the 5800, you couldn't tell the difference in sound. Those receivers sound exactly alike, I could tell the difference between the two in a sighted listening test.

Well since I'm not a betting man I won't take that. I prefer to have the money in pocket ready for the next HT upgrade. Posted Image

Anyway, what I meant by distinct differences is feature sets rather than absolute sound differences in sound quality. I find that each brand be it Denon, Onkyo, etc. have their signature sound they try to keep within their line.

Howard, where are you going in Vancouver to do your auditioning?

Patrick

#17 of 20 Dave Moritz

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Posted December 13 2001 - 07:12 AM

I would agree that there are differances in receivers in clairity and quality of the surround processing. It depends on you level of comitment to sound quality and what you like. I currently own a Yamaha RX-V995 that I am going to replace with a Denon AVR-3800. There are good companies like Denon, Yamaha, Harman Kardon, Sunfire and others. It all depends on what you can afford and are willing to spend. As far as the Sherwood being as good as the Denon, I Doubt It! Sherwood has been out of compition you years! And is no better that Fisher or Sanyo. I would buy the best receiver you can afford.
Supporter of 1080p & 4K video / Supporter of Lossless PCM, Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio / Say No To MP3 & WMA / Say no to Bose & LG!
 

 


#18 of 20 Howard_S

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Posted December 13 2001 - 08:35 AM

Patrick. I'll probably be going to Audio Video Unlimited since they're essentially the only Paradigm dealer. But I'm going to head to other stores to listen to the 49tx as well since a lot of stores carry the Elite brand. What stores do you get your gear from?

#19 of 20 muskie

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Posted December 13 2001 - 10:36 AM

The Sound Room on West 4th carries Paradigm.

FYI

Muskie

#20 of 20 PatrickM

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Posted December 13 2001 - 11:52 AM

I get some things from AVU as well since a high school friend is a sales manager at one of them. The other place I like to go to is Sound Plus on Broadway a block or two west of Cambie.

When your at AVU you should listen to the Denon's since your there to get an idea of the differences.

Patrick





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