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Car subs in my house


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#1 of 31 OFFLINE   bigdog8

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Posted January 28 2010 - 12:37 PM

Hi, I'm looking for a pair of car subs to put in my house and power with a Behringer EP2500. What are some economical subs that will bump hard?


#2 of 31 OFFLINE   Robert_J

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Posted January 28 2010 - 12:53 PM

Welcome to the forum, Jacob.

"Car sub", "home sub", doesn't matter 99% of the time since they are just marketing terms.  You want to find a sub that will meet your goals of "bumping hard" while also meeting your constraints of being "economical" and I'm sure you have a size limit well.

Let's look at your constraints.  What is economical to you?  Please give a figure in dollars.  If you are located outside of the US then please let me know.  That will make this process difficult but not impossible.  It would be easier if you just filled out the location section in your profile.

Size - Please give me the maximum physical size of the enclosures.  We can go as large as a commercial refrigerator or as small as a shoe box.  But keep Hoffman's Iron Law in mind when choosing the size.

Goals - Explain "bump hard"?  Are you wanting car audio type bass?  Bloated mid-bass that hits you in the chest like a sledgehammer?  What will these subs be used for?  Music?  Movies?  Both?  Percentage of each?

Other information - What does the rest of your system consist of?  Are you going to build a pair monster subs with 22" drivers and pair it with a $100 Wal-Mart home theater in a box?  What size room is this going in?  How loud do you listen most of the time?  If you can give me hard numbers like -10db from Dolby reference that would be great.

It's not as easy as throwing drivers in a box and connecting them to an amp.  I run an EP-2500 and subs that were originally marketed to the car audio crowd.



#3 of 31 OFFLINE   bigdog8

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Posted January 28 2010 - 04:12 PM

Money-Probably upto 350$ shipped for 2 subs. (Would Kicker L7's sound good in my house?) "Biggest bang for the buck" in this case
Size-No size constraint, will be located in my living room, pretty large area
Goals-I want a mixture of car type bass and sledgehammer bass. (I have a kicker l7 in my truck w/ a zx750)
Other Info-I have not yet picked out a home theater system yet, because my current doesn't have a sub output :( but again I am looking for something economical. Any suggestions on cheap home theater systems would be much appreciated also. Walmart ones would be fine.
I probably will use it for 80% music and maybe 20% movies if that.
How Loud-I don't have a db meter, but I do have a car sub and love loud shakin' music. Will be used for mostly music.


#4 of 31 OFFLINE   Robert_J

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Posted January 29 2010 - 01:15 AM

I wouldn't use Kickers for anything but that is just a personal preference.  They haven't been the same since they were built by www.credencespeakers.com/.

Mostly music and LOUD then I suggest the Tuba 18 design - www.billfitzmaurice.com/T18.html.  It is difficult to build though but from the reviews I've read it is worth the effort.

If you only want to go with a box sub, then a pair of ported subs tuned to about 25hz.  Either way, with your budget I suggest the 15" Dayton DVC - www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm.  That will leave you with a little extra for a subsonic filter like the Reckhorn B1 - www.creativesound.ca/details.php.

If you need help with a ported design, let me know and I'll work up something this weekend when I'm helping another forum member.


#5 of 31 OFFLINE   bigdog8

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Posted January 29 2010 - 03:49 AM

Quick question, wouldn't 2 2 ohm subs be preferred if I am going to power with the behringer 2500?


#6 of 31 OFFLINE   Robert_J

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Posted January 29 2010 - 04:23 AM

Running the 2500 at 2 ohms will have increased heat and distortion.  You are only gaining about 20% to 30% more power at 20hz which equates into about 1db louder at max volume.  Dual 15's, especially in a horn, will get crazy loud.  120db in a car and 120db at 20hz in a house is very, very different.  Light bulbs blow.  Knick knacks fall off shelves.  Drywall may separate from the wall.


#7 of 31 OFFLINE   bigdog8

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Posted January 29 2010 - 04:37 AM

So honestly the rms wattage difference at 8 ohms and 2 ohms would really make no difference? I'm looking online can't find a place to buy the EP2500, so going to purchase the EP4000 for only a bit more than the EP 2000. Would the subs you recommended still go good with this? I really want the place to shake and ears to bleed haha almost :)


#8 of 31 OFFLINE   Robert_J

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Posted January 29 2010 - 05:41 AM

Those Dayton drivers have dual 8 ohm voice coils which when wired in parallel are 4 ohms, not 8 as you stated.

The EP2500 was replaced by the 4000.  Still the same amp on the inside though.

You don't pic the sub to match the amp.  You pick the sub to match the goals and constraints I mentioned earlier.  You then get the amp to power the sub.  But the Behringer amps are very flexible and work with a variety of subs without issue.  I'm using one to power a pair of 15" TC-3000's - web.archive.org/web/20070207070153/www.tcsounds.com/tc3000.htm


#9 of 31 OFFLINE   bigdog8

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Posted January 29 2010 - 08:26 AM

Would 2 tc-2000's sound good or 2 tc-9's?


#10 of 31 OFFLINE   Robert_J

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Posted January 29 2010 - 11:58 AM

Technically, a TC-2000 is just a TC-9 with a different frame and suspension.  Both use the TC-9 motor structure.  Neither are available any more.  But when Audiopulse is back up and running in a few months the Revo will be available - www.audiopulse.com/products/subwoofer-drivers/revo.  Check the prices though.  Your budget can't cover a single driver.

You are not going to meet your goals with these drivers.  You need a large, ported enclosure or a horn loaded enclosure and lesser drivers.  That's why I recommended the 15" Dayton DVC.

#11 of 31 OFFLINE   bigdog8

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Posted January 29 2010 - 12:55 PM

The TC-9 12" run 179$. Which of my goals am I not going to meet? I just want something loud for a party setting.


#12 of 31 OFFLINE   bigdog8

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Posted January 29 2010 - 01:09 PM

Also, I understand these are out of stock is there another high wattage sub you could recommend?


#13 of 31 OFFLINE   Robert_J

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Posted January 29 2010 - 02:45 PM

Other then their pro audio 18" drivers, TC Sounds isn't known for being loud.  They are known for accuracy.

High wattage does not equal loud.  You need to model your driver and enclosure combination in software and determine how loud it will be.  If you want 120db, then why dump 2,000w into it if you can achieve the goal with 500w.  The horn subs I mentioned earlier will work great.  Or go with a ported enclosure tuned to 25hz or 30hz.  Just make sure your amp has a steep subsonic filter when you use it that 20% of the time for movies.

What don't you like about my suggestions?  The Dayton meets your budget.  The ported or horn enclosure will give you awsome bass.  The drivers aren't flashy.  They don't have logos on the dust covers.  They are ordinary, black subs that get the job done.  Better yet, they are made in the USA (Kentucky to be exact) by Eminence.

#14 of 31 OFFLINE   bigdog8

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Posted January 29 2010 - 04:16 PM

So really 2 of the daytons would be the loudest thing I could get for the price?


#15 of 31 OFFLINE   Robert_J

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Posted January 30 2010 - 01:10 AM

With everything being equal, the 18" Dayton Classic is 4db more sensitive the the 15" Dayton DVC but I wouldn't use it for home theater applications.  It does not have enough excursion to handle extremely low bass.  http://www.parts-exp...tnumber=295-475

Did you read anything about the horn enclosure I suggested?  The 15" in the horn is much louder than the 18" in a regular enclosure and will play lower.  To get this efficiency you have a more complicated build.  Nothing in subwoofer building is "easy".  Everything is a trade-off.  You want a loud sub - then it either costs a LOT or you build a complicated enclosure.  You want a sub to play low - you use an inefficient sub and give up being loud or you use more than one sub to make up for the inefficiency.

#16 of 31 OFFLINE   bigdog8

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Posted January 30 2010 - 03:26 AM

ok, so how would i go about building a horn enclosure for 2 15" daytons? Also is this going to hit hard? I like to feel my bass!


#17 of 31 OFFLINE   bigdog8

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Posted January 30 2010 - 03:39 AM

also, i have a Pyle Home PD3000A could you recommend some loud speakers? I was looking at Pyle PADH212




#18 of 31 OFFLINE   Robert_J

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Posted January 30 2010 - 05:41 AM



Originally Posted by bigdog8 ">

ok, so how would i go about building a horn enclosure for 2 15" daytons? 
 
You build a horn enclosure for each 15" Dayton.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog8 

#19 of 31 OFFLINE   bigdog8

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Posted January 30 2010 - 12:00 PM

Ok, is there an actual step by step page? Or manual rather than a forum? Also am i going to feel the bass with these dayton's?


#20 of 31 OFFLINE   bigdog8

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Posted January 30 2010 - 12:08 PM

also what do you think about 2 Dayton RSS390HO-4 15?




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