ROOM 222: Season Two January 19th (1 Viewer)

According to a recent post at TVShowsOnDVD, this set will be "available" on January 19th, 2010.
http://www.shoutfactory.com/browse/252/room_222.aspx

Apparently, it is the first of four pending releases "direct from Shout Factory's online store". I'm assuming therefore that there are no plans for a general release; lower than anticipated sales numbers for the first season release could well have something to do with this limited approach. From what I've gathered, the poor quality of the prints (at times the video quality is absolutely awful) had a great deal to do with the disappointing sales of the debut release and things don't appear to be looking much better for season two. Shout Factory's press release includes the same disclaimer as season one; "Created from the best surviving video masters available to Shout Factory". I'm really hoping this doesn't mean (with a few exceptions) more washed-out prints with faded brown grass, pale orange reds and badly scratched film. With a modicum of effort, I'm confident that the original 35mm masters could be located in the studio vault; there's no excuse for these 'dirty master' prints!

On the other hand, Shout Factory has proven themselves to be a uniquely consumer-accessible company willing to listen (and actually take action) on consumer concerns. It wouldn't hurt to contact Brian Ward on the Shout website and let him know how you feel about this issue.

That's too bad about this shows' release since I like the show and bought S1 at an Amazon error discount (they had it listed in error for a few days back then at ~$10 for the set). But unless the S2 prints are somewhat cleaned up I'm passing on this one. As good as the show is, the S1 prints were very bad, imo. I don't know if the S1 print quality had any effect on the sales #'s but I wouldn't have been surprised if that were true. I know that Shout does the best they can with what prints are available to them but we all have to make our decisions on print Q's for TV/DVD sets according to our different "lines in the sand".

Originally Posted by Jeff Willis

That's too bad about this shows' release since I like the show and bought S1 at an Amazon error discount (they had it listed in error for a few days back then at ~$10 for the set). But unless the S2 prints are somewhat cleaned up I'm passing on this one. As good as the show is, the S1 prints were very bad, imo. I don't know if the S1 print quality had any effect on the sales #'s but I wouldn't have been surprised if that were true. I know that Shout does the best they can with what prints are available to them but we all have to make our decisions on print Q's for TV/DVD sets according to our different "lines in the sand".

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I picked this one up for 10 bucks as well (same error). I'm wondering if the bottom line for this release was affected by this glitch; if I recall correctly it was on Amazon for quite a while, certainly long enough to have sold a potentially huge number of sets at an insane discount.

It really is a shame that this unique show didn't receive the treatment it deserved. The only positive is that the prints are uncut due to the fact that they haven't been in syndication for quite some time, so they escaped the Madison Avenue hatchet which saw the introduction of edited syndication prints in the late 1980's to make room for more commercials. Older shows were obviously the greatest casualties of this greed-inspired censorship; run-times of 25-261/2 minutes in half hour time-slots were trimmed down to approx. 21:30 representing a loss of 5 minutes in a half hour time-slot. This to me is one of the greatest tragedies in the history of popular culture. By removing a significant portion of these programs, not only is the narrative almost always compromised, but unless these classic shows see an eventual DVD release containing uncut restored prints with original music (finished laughing yet?), these (in my opinion) works of art face the very real prospect of being lost forever to the public (especially considering the shameless track record of CBS Home Entertainment and it's vast television library with their penny-pinching paranoiacs at the helm!)

I'm not sure how familiar you are with this series, Jeff, but if you enjoyed season one then I'm pretty sure you'll love season two. This is the season when the show really started to come into it's own. Season One, while entertaining and certainly well-written, was slightly marred by growing pains and was more than a little self-conscious.In the early episodes (as is the case with many shows) it seemed as though the producers were struggling to find a sense of identity (for lack of a better term) and the characters were still developing. This is not the case with season two; the writing, acting and production were far better and there is not a trace of the typical self-consciousness that was apparent in it's debut season. I'm crossing my fingers that the source prints for season two are not the same 'dirty master' copies used for the season one release, transferred to video tape decades ago for local television station syndication and badly neglected ever since.

This show was actually shot on film and originally looked beautiful. The scenes were saturated with color (this was a very common trend in the late '60s in part to promote the sale of color television sets) and the camera work was pretty sophisticated for a show of this kind, especially as the series progressed). There are in fact one or two episodes on the season one set that provide a glimpse into how the picture should look ( the one that comes to mind is 'Our Teacher Is Obsolete', disc two, episode one); while they could still use a bit of clean-up, they are far superior to the often poor quality of the preponderance of the prints in this release (the grass is actually GREEN and the knee-socks bright RED!)

I am certain that the original 35mm prints are still in the studio library; Shout Factory just needs to demand that they dig them out. This show deserves a better fate than bad videotape releases as the keepsakes of it's heritage!

If you have a few spare moments at this chaotic time of year, Jeff, it wouldn't hurt to visit the Shout Factory website and address this issue with Brian Ward. He almost always personally replies to inquiries and seems to take them seriously. Who knows, it may not be too late for this release.

If it worked for 'Rhoda' it can work for Room 222!

The problem is who pays for new masters to be made from any original elements that are found- Does Fox pay? I think they would balk at that, since they couldn't be bothered to strike new masters for things they are releasing under their own banner (like Mary Tyler Moore s4,5). And I doubt Shout could afford the cost of new masters for something that didn't sell well to begin with.

I was disappointed in the PQ of the first season too. But unlike Jeff, the material is just too strong for me to pass up any further seasons. to be honest I jumped out of my chair when I saw the blurb on the TVonDVD site. This is the announcement I have been waiting and hoping for. I just hope it is not priced to excessively. $40, knowing the quality of the masters used, will be a bit hard swallow. $25, otoh, I wouldn't hesitate to drop. I think it will be closer to the latter though.
And because of that, I kind of wish they would just go ahead and put out the rest of the series in one fell swoop. If I'm going to outlay a premium, I would rather pay more and not have to worry about further releases.

I'm also one of the people who jumped at the amazon glitch & got the first for aorund $10. I had never seen the show before but heard such good things about it that it was a blind buy for me. I was more than impressed. I wasn't happy with the video quality but the quality of the show more than made up for it. I've never seen anything but the first season and want to pick up the second season. I won't expect anything better video quality wise (judging by Shout!'s statement) but even on the first set some episodes weren't really that bad. I'll be picking up the second season, though probably not right away. I have to get Mr Belvedere first. I hope Shout! has some type of sales sometime like that buy two get one free they had but I doubt it. Somehow I'll get the second set though.

Since this is Fox's show and they have no interest in remastering, I really don't think we'll be getting much better video quality for this next set. It's too bad but that still won't stop me from buying the set. All I can say is I'm glad I got that first set and I was able to see what a wonderful show this is. It made me want to come back for more.

How'd season 1 look compared to the TVLand airings of it a few years ago? I don't remember it looking awful.

Originally Posted by TV_Fan


Since this is Fox's show and they have no interest in remastering, I really don't think we'll be getting much better video quality for this next set. It's too bad but that still won't stop me from buying the set. All I can say is I'm glad I got that first set and I was able to see what a wonderful show this is. It made me want to come back for more.

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This show aired on a local cable channel only 2 years ago. If Fox is still making money off it, then they need to clean it up and get it shop-worthy. But for the most part, 222 has remained sitting on a shelf somewhere for the past 35 years, Since it hasn't been rerun much, it hasn't benefitted from any kind of cleaning or remastering. I have no idea where Shout! got these prints, or why they (or Fox) think they're dvd-worthy.

It just would kind of hurt me to see this show looking weary on dvd. I watched the whole thing first-run; I remember how vibrant the colors looked; I remember when all of Karen Valentine's clothes were contemporary instead of silly-looking. To see it all washed out would be kind of painful to me, and would potentially hurt my memory of how wonderful this show really was. Fox really needs to take care of their good stuff.

I think there's nothing more shocking than to see an old film or tv show for the first time in decades, and to discover the print's aged worse than you have lol. Yeah, this particular show's not going to be very profitable at the current time (it's fondly remembered by those of us who saw it--draws a blank with everyone else) but the point is that I strongly believe in film preservation and that applies to tv as well. I know durn well that there's probably better prints of 222 stored in a vault somewhere, and that they should dig 'em out, make sure they're all right, and offer those for the show's dvd presentation. Just making sure that the best surviving print is what's being made available to the public on dvd is a form of film preservation in itself, regardless of whether they actually have to spend money on cleaning or remastering.

I will be picking this up as well. Rhoda season 2 as well. While I wasn't all that thrilled with the quality of Rhoda, I was more than pleased with Room 222. With Rhoda, I am willing to give Shout a second chance to improve just because I love Rhoda so much. With Room 222, I seriously doubt that better masters have been acquired. The show has been seen so rarely since its original run. I am willing to be much more forgiving of the picture quality for Room 222 as long as the episodes are complete and uncut.

Good posts, it's good to see that this show has a following and I hope for the sake of fans that the S2 set will sell well enough to continue the releases.

Don, you're right about the S2 season and the show from what I remember back then when watching it on network TV. I'll probably put this set on a birthday or next year's Christmas list and get the set that way.

Paul, I hear you about the content of the show outweighing the print Q. That's a decision we all have to make with these older show's releases. This is one where I won't get it except for a gift.

It's been my guess that a lot of this issue may be related to how we watch TV/DVD sets (what type of TV, viewing distance, etc). For example. I watch TV/DVD's in 4:3 mode on a 50" Panasonic Plasma set about 8-9 ft from the screen. I have several "B- grade" TV/DVD sets (my grading system ), like the original DIck Van Dyke Show, Combat!, etc, and some C-grade sets, "Man With A Camera", among those groups. All look fairly good on my TV. Room 222, imo, contained a large amount of film noise and distracted me from watching the show.

Again, TV/DVD print Q is, as we all know, a very subjective parameter. I remember when Adam-12 S2 received some low reviews on the print Q. For me, I have no problems viewing that set.

Another thing that I consider when buying TV/DVD set is the time issue. I have many other sets on the shelf and I usually decide to pass on a set if the print Q falls below my "line" due to the time choice that I make in watching TV. There are too many other shows with (imo) better picture Q so I have to make a choice in how to spend my viewing time.

Shout making this set site-exclusive: I wonder how this may affect their pricepoint for this and future exclusive sets. That's something that I'll watch in the future. I hope that Shout will be able to keep their exclusive online-store prices competitive for the buyers.

As we all wish, it would be great to see more consistancy in the TV/DVD products from the 50's-60's era. For example, the Lone Ranger 75th Anniversary set....that set, to me, has amazingly-good print Q for the age of the show. I really enjoy watching that set. Another example for me is last year's Wagon Train box set (the color season with those bonus B/W episodes included). That one's another easily watchable set for me.

Room 222, imo, lies several notches below those sets in print Q and yet it was shot years later than the Lone Ranger set. That's something that I've always felt was regrettable as a collector that this is something we have to live with when buying these sets.

To the people complaining about the picture quality I have to ask, did you ever watch syndicated shows in the 70s? Because that's how shows looked. And worse. Now all of a sudden everyone is spoiled by perfect quality, perfect color remasters from the original fine grain negatives. Yes, those are nice to have. But one has to be a bit more realistic. Room 222 has never been remastered and hasn't looked good since it went off of ABC. Even when it had it's only national cable run on USA in the 80s, it looked this way (and was cut by 2 1/2 a minutes as well). We all know how Fox treats it's older properties and the only time they remaster a show is if they get a major cable sale and it's demanded by the purchaser. To expect Shout Factory to foot the bill for a new set of transfers is preposterous. The show didn't even sell well enough to warrant a broad 2nd release. And people expect them to pay for new transfers? Get real. These shows weren't meant to be watched on 100 inch high definition sets anyway. Watch it on a 13 inch screen and if the color is still bothersome to you, then shut the chroma off. Either that or wait for that massive Fox remastering project to happen.

Danny,

I respect your take on this and hope you respect mine. I don't intend to come across on this Bd as a "complainer" (your words, not mine) so although I don't know if you refer to me or to all posters in general who choose to pass in purchasing some of the older un-restored TV/DVD sets but that's your right to post as you did earlier.

As I've mentioned numerous times in my previous posts, I don't slam Shout nor am I intending to flame those who choose to purchase DVD releases as Room 222. I'm happy that those who choose to buy this show's release have that opportunity to do so.

Regarding someone "spoiled" by the DVD format, well, I see that another way. It's just that, for the most part, I have chosen to utilize my viewing time & $$'s to buy sets such as, Time Tunnel, Twilight Zone, Get Smart, etc, and the many other older show's TV/DVD's that have been fortunate to have been released by major studios or, as in the case of Image, have either the funds or have been fortunate to have received remastered prints from the original studio/rights owner.

Bottom line, for me, is "to each their own" in the TV/DVD collecting hobby

To answer a question you posted, yes, I've watched 70's syndicated shows I was around when most of these shows orginally aired. It's somewhat ironic in my case, regarding the enjoyment that I've had with remastered older shows, and watching them on one of the newer flat-panel HD TV's: I was a late entry into the HD TV scene, compared to many on Bd's like the HTF film Bd, etc. I bought my 1st HD TV in Aug '08, primarily for sports viewing but I spent time checking out various HD displays in-stores before buying an HD set. What I found, after viewing several of my older (and more recent) TV/DVD's as well as recent film DVD's in my local dealers, is that viewing on HD sets, subject to screen size and one's viewing distance, didn't "magnify" older shows' DVD print imperfections for most of the print Q's in the older shows. The benefit, for me, in screen size and upconversion to 1080p/HDMI, far outweighed any over-amplification of an era's TV print issues.

The reason that I generally pass on sets such as Room 222, is that, even with my previous generation CRT TV, the print Q reached a level that it's distracting to me when viewing the show.

I Bought Season 1 and could only watch a few episodes I mean they are Public Domain Quality, which is ok I guess if they are charging Public domain prices. For the cost of the set these should be remastered.

I'll be picking this up without question. Yes, some of the prints for Season One were rough, but the content was still quite interesting and (for me) very watchable.

This is off-topic but to do with Shout! Factory...I wonder if they will do the same with the fourth season of Simon & Simon, making it available only through Shout! Factory's online store? But I don't know how well the third season set sold.

Originally Posted by Neil Brock /forum/thread/295730/room-222-season-two-january-19th#post_3636765

I understand perfectly where Jeff is coming from and agree with him that it's a call everyone has to make on their own as to what threshold quality level merits a purchase or a pass.
FWIW, I'm watching things on a 1080p projector and 4:3 content like this comes out about 60" wide. Most of the last few days I've spent online ripping Warner over the abysmal quality on many of their Archive titles. The fact is, Room 222 frequently looks no better than some of those (and quite worse than most)- but I can cut Room 222 (and Shout) a lot of slack here, because unlike Warner and it's films, this show has basically been abused, mistreated, and then orphaned by it's owner. Shout doesn't have anywhere near the resources that Fox or Warner has. Room 222 may look as unsightly as a blind, three legged dog, but if it weren't for Shout, this dog would be completely dead and forgotten.

I'm not sure I understand the readiness some here show towards forgiving Shout for things like this and cut episodes in several season 1 releases of other classics.

Granted, the things you've stated are true, they do have limited resources and negoitating power when they're licensing someone else's property. But it's also true that they've made no attempt to solicit help from avenues such as this forum, prominent sites where people collect this stuff on film, etc.

Just like season 1 of Father Knows Best, where I can guarantee you if they had actually tried to get some assistance with collectors, several, if not all of the cut syndicated prints they used could've been replaced with nice looking complete copies. But they never even tried to open lines of communication to allow this to happen. I don't know if it would've been beneficial in the case of this program, but I assure you it would've been of assistance with FKB and Mister Ed.

I also have no doubt better looking sources are available for this from FOX, but I doubt they even tried to locate anything. Even if it needed expensive mastering, I doubt they even tried to strike a deal that might've benefited both parties, such as agreeing to help fund a percentage of the bill for creating new masters from the original film elements, which would allow Shout to release an attractive package at a price they could afford, while FOX saw part of it's library improved and preserved for a fraction of what it would run to foot the bill alone. I have no doubt they just went with what they had and that was it without any attempts to try to get FOX involved to check their vaults again or consider something like what I just proposed.

They're all too ready to give a snob story saying that's all they were provided with when fans cry when a season 1 release was crippled, and then magically, when season 2 releases hit, they've managed to solve those problems. Looks like by cascading this show to this online exclusive deal, they've built in an excuse for not even bothering to try that with season 2 since we're supposed to feel lucky we're even getting this.

I love it when they do things right, I'm impressed by much of what they do. Their releases are often of high quality, include nice bonuses such as the Window on Main Street episodes with Father Knows Best that are above and beyond what they're obligated to do (If I'm being sold a season set of a tv show, I expect every episode to be uncut using the best sources available). If anything, knowing what this company is capable of just makes me more irritated when something goes wrong with them, since I've seen what they've been able to do in the past and appreciate their efforts.

But all too often, something gets screwed up down the line and they sacrifice their standards and we end up with subpar product that doesn't do justice to the original source material.

I'm not forgiving Shout for cut season 1 releases of shows like Rhoda or Mr. Ed.

And, since I can't have the first season, I'm not buying subsequent releases, no matter how well they are done. I agree completely that they should attempt to do season 1 correctly and spare us all the time and energy of pissing and moaning about season 1 when they've shown time and time again that they can get things right with season 2 after we complain.

But Room 222 is different. I can believe that this show hasn't had any work done to it by Fox, and that the only complete versions of the shows look like crap. Fox hasn't been kind to their older shows. And I don't think Fox has any interest in cleaning up or remastering a show like Room 222, and Shout doesn't have the money.

Paul,

I know what you're saying about the WB Archive issues. I've only made 1 purchase from them. That was the Lex Barker "Tarzan" sets.

And, as you and Shane mentioned, it's not fair in most cases to hold an independent studio such as Shout to the same standards as the big boys.

That said, I do think Leo's post makes a very good point about the problems of inconsistancy and lack of communication in the TV/DVD industry. It's always been my take on this that the TV/DVD market isn't perceived or possibly held in the same light as the film/movie DVD market, particularly where the older TV shows' releases are concerned. I wish it were otherwise. Take, for example, the example that Leo mentioned, the FKB S1 release. It's hard to overlook the huge difference in the S1 & S2 releases from the same company. Perhaps there were good reasons for the differences, but it's still hard to overlook those sort of inconsistancies with these releases.

I understand the stance to cut the indies slack, but when we see these things happen it's a shame that these classic shows aren't treated better. I know most here remember that Route 66 fiasco with S2. It's a different indy but the point is the same.

However, I do think that Shout is among the better co's that try to solicit and consider their customer's inputs. And there's no doubt, as Paul said, that Shout is getting these shows out there that otherwise may as well have been stowed aboard the Voyager 1 interplanetary probe (a little space stuff there....that probe's the farthest man-made object from the Earth at present way out there approaching interstellar space).