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Mister Ed Season 2 from Shout


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#1 of 23 ONLINE   LeoA

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Posted November 13 2009 - 05:35 AM

Something's strange with the runtime they listed. 780/26 equals 30 minutes per episode.Given that it's doubtful they're including over two hours worth of bonus material when they didn't even give us something approaching a uncut release of season 1 (Edit - I see season 1 did have some nice bonus material though after reading Gord Lacey's review) , are they perhaps trying to disguise the true runtime of the release to mask another wave of syndicated cuts of episodes?

Doesn't give you much faith in what should be a happy announcement when they go and blame season 1's faults on their quality control department on their message board and then can't even total the correct running time for their announcement of season 2. Looks like they just multiplied the 30 minute block it would've been broadcast in by 26.

I sure hope it's something we can be happy about and it was just a honest and easy mistake to make. But I fear they either already know several severely cut episodes are going to be included and are trying to mask this, or they're actively trying to resolve problems and can't pinpoint an exact runtime yet, or (I hope not) it just represents a lack of care.

A Shout employee on their own message boards even admitted that they didn't realize many episodes on their season 1 release were cut, despite drastically different runtimes than the other episodes, because the word "syndication" wasn't anywhere on what they were provided with. Their quality control department and the producer (The individuals he said would've had the job to catch this) apparantly didn't catch that many episodes were several minutes shorter than the rest (8 or so episodes, I didn't pick it up thanks to hearing about the problems before purchase so I can't give a first hand account of the problems).

Sure hope it's fixed. But barring word from Shout that they're uncut, I'll be waiting on reviews. I'm waiting to get Mr. Ed season 1 as cheap as possible due to the problems, I'm not willing to pay full price for product that's substandard that they've mostly ignored when asked about.

I've enjoyed many of their releases such as Adam-12 season 2 and 3 (Can't wait to pick up more seasons), but given what's happened to season 1 and some of their other releases (Glad I'm not a Rhoda fan), I'm concerned season 2 will be substandard. Hopefully I'm just being overcritical and concerned about nothing and they will have listened to their fans and resolved the issues that cropped up with season 1. But even if it is, it's too bad we'll never get the complete series on DVD thanks to season 1 not having been done correctly from the start.

#2 of 23 OFFLINE   Duane Alford

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Posted November 13 2009 - 07:54 PM

I remember reading that Shout only released season sets 6 months apart. Why are we getting Season 2 only 4 months after Season 1? I'm not complaining, cause instead of it taking 3 years for the entire show to be released we could get it all by mid 2011. But it makes me wonder why Adam-12 and Simon & Simon are being released every 6 months instead of 4 months.

#3 of 23 ONLINE   The Obsolete Man

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Posted November 20 2009 - 11:37 AM

TVShowsonDVD.com is reporting that season 2 is complete.

I will say the same thing about this I said about Rhoda... too little, too late.

I'm glad that season 2 is being released uncut... but I won't be buying it. There's no acceptable season 1 release for me to buy, so why would I bother with season 2?

So, to those who are buying, enjoy. Between uncut episodes and the announced special features, this looks like it will be a pretty good set. Unfortunately, I can't be one of the people to buy it.

Oh well. At least Adam 12 has been intact so far.


#4 of 23 ONLINE   LeoA

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Posted November 25 2009 - 01:43 PM

Brian Ward at Shout Factory's forum stated the following this evening...

Quote: B Ward
Honestly, I'm not sure what the status is of S1.  As you pointed out, it wasn't my project, but I can say that there have been multiple discussions on how best to rectify the situation.  I cannot make any promises that this issue will be fixed right away, if at all.  The fact is, MGM was originally asked to look for the best quality masters available and, without paying any attention to the run times, sent them to us.  For those particular episodes, they happened to be the shorter versions.  The complete masters, by comparison, were eventually found later and looked awful.  As I've had the same thing happen to me with a project or two of my own, I can say that had the decision been made to use the complete masters, Shout! Factory and MGM (though, let's be honest, more Shout! Factory) would've been railed for the quality of masters.  So it really was the Kobayashi Maru in full effect (I love being able to make Star Trek references at work).

I know this doesn't answer your question entirely.  I can only say that you shouldn't lose hope.  You may still see the complete versions of those episodes released, but I can't say when.  For now, we're moving forward with unreleased seasons and making sure we have the best quality masters of the most complete episodes available at our disposal.

 
Lets hope they do the right thing and correct this situation so the fans of this series can feel free to start picking up this series and supporting Shout Factory.

#5 of 23 ONLINE   The Obsolete Man

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Posted November 25 2009 - 01:49 PM

I'm calling shenanigans on this...

Quote:
As I've had the same thing happen to me with a project or two of my own, I can say that had the decision been made to use the complete masters, Shout! Factory and MGM (though, let's be honest, more Shout! Factory) would've been railed for the quality of masters. 
I remember Room 222 from earlier this year. Many episodes looked like what they were, meaning 40 year old shows with no clean-up. The people at this forum, who are some of the harshest critics you can find, didn't mind the fact that the episodes weren't pristine, because they were complete.

I think Rhoda and Mr. Ed would've been the same way... we would have been more forgiving if we had gotten complete episodes and a "Sorry the complete episodes look like crap, but these are the best elements available, and it was complete shows that don't look the greatest, or nice looking cut episodes".

As it is, they've lost these sales, and future sales from me, and hardheaded people like me. /img/vbsmilies/htf/laugh.gif

This has also made Shout one of the "Don't buy it until I see a review" companies.



#6 of 23 OFFLINE   Jack P

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Posted November 25 2009 - 03:45 PM

So Shout had another screw-up again?    Figures, for those of us who saw a long time ago how bad they can be ("Ironside").    And yet this is the company that so many people think is the only hope for TV on DVD.


#7 of 23 OFFLINE   MatthewA

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Posted November 26 2009 - 02:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Obsolete Man View Post

TVShowsonDVD.com is reporting that season 2 is complete.

I will say the same thing about this I said about Rhoda... too little, too late.

I'm glad that season 2 is being released uncut... but I won't be buying it. There's no acceptable season 1 release for me to buy, so why would I bother with season 2?

So, to those who are buying, enjoy. Between uncut episodes and the announced special features, this looks like it will be a pretty good set. Unfortunately, I can't be one of the people to buy it.
 
I agree with you. That is why I will never own Rhoda or Father Knows Best until they go back and do their respective first seasons right. That is why I held out on The Cosby Show until the complete series set.

MGM could have restored the episodes at any time. But they have to go begging to donors for money to restore John Wayne's multiple-Oscar-nominee "The Alamo." I've shed every tear I can for this once-great studio, but now I say "just die already, Leo."

What is the collective mind set of this industry? Fast and cheap is good enough for anything not current. "Oh it's just ALF" begat "oh it's just Too Close For Comfort" begat "oh it's just The Cosby Show, Roseanne, and everything else by Carsey-Werner" begat "oh it's just Mama's Family" begat "oh it's just WKRP in Cincinnati" begat "oh it's just Father Knows Best" begat "oh it's just Rhoda" begat "oh it's just Mister Ed". Did they really think that people don't care in spite of past experiences that prove the exact opposite? To see ALF uncut you can now buy the Region 2 versions from Germany or Japan, but the others aren't so lucky. And if current shows weren't released until 20 or 30 years after they first aired, don't think they'd get the deluxe treatments they get now.

Shout! Factory has had other problems with other sets. The masters for season 1 of "Punky Brewster", while uncut, are far from first generation and have noticeable tape dropouts, while season 2 has better picture some pretty bad audio distortion on the "s" sounds, and a couple of season 3 and 4 episodes have some weird audio effects that sound like they laid two completely different music scores over each other. The other sets I own that they put out are "Mr. Belvedere", "Designing Women", "Peyton Place," and "The Patty Duke Show"; the first two have had no problems at all but Patty has one episode about a minute shorter than the rest for some bizarre reason, and Peyton Place's running times couldn't possibly be those of a 30-minute network show in the 1960s.

Fox is one of the worst studios when it comes to their TV library. They barely syndicate anything pre-"Simpsons" other than "M*A*S*H", and they haven't. MGM was good about remastering at one point (the transfers on Green Acres are positively stunning), but they just stopped cold.

I was one of Shout!'s biggest defenders, but if they've bitten off more than they can chew they need to scale back and focus on quality of releases over quantity. I believe that both they and the studios are to blame. Shout! is the last hope for any show not owned by CBS/Paramount, so they need to work with the studios to check the masters first, and demand new ones if the old ones aren't good enough. If it means fewer but better releases, so be it.

Enough is enough, Disney. No more evasions or excuses. We DEMAND the release Song of the South on Blu-ray along with the uncut version of Bedknobs and Broomsticks on Blu-ray. I am going to boycott The Walt Disney Company until then.


#8 of 23 OFFLINE   Gary OS

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Posted November 26 2009 - 03:19 AM

     Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P 

So Shout had another screw-up again?    Figures, for those of us who saw a long time ago how bad they can be ("Ironside").    And yet this is the company that so many people think is the only hope for TV on DVD.

Jack, I gladly admit I have given Shout more of a pass than the major studios (CBS, Fox, Uni, MGM, Sony, etc.) in the past.  And I've stated my reasons clearly enough: they don't have the funds to clean these shows up, nor the access to the vaults, that the major studios do.  They are only "renting" these shows out and they can't be expected to do major restoration work on series they don't even own. 

Having said all that, I am not giving them a pass on some of these more recent mistakes with shows like FKB S1, MR ED S1, RHODA S1 (which I don't personally even care about), and many others.  While I don't expect pristine prints in every case (for the reasons I mentioned above) I do expect uncut prints when they are clearly available.  And Shout has made several mistakes on that side of things and there really isn't a good reason for it.  Someone has to know when they are transferring these shows onto dvds that an episode of Mister Ed that only runs 23 minutes is a cut print.  They just have to know that.  It's unthinkable that something of that nature can slip through all the cracks and make it to retail.  No way can that happen - multiple times with the company.  Once or twice maybe.  But it's happened too many times at this point.  So I'm not giving them a pass for that issue.  Nevertheless, I still maintain they can't be held to the same standards as the major studios becuase they aren't a major studio!  But whatever.

And as to which company is or isn't the "savior" of classic TV on DVD, can you please point me to any company other than CBS/Paramount (who is scaling back their classic releases), or to another outfit other than Shout and Timeless, that are doing squat with vintage releases?  We both know there aren't any other options.  We could run down the list of the dozen or so studios/companies that have done good work in the past and in each case (other than the 3 I mentioned above) they have all either greatly scaled back classic titles or have given up altogether.  So I wouldn't personally be so quick to jump on Shout.  I know they stopped IRONSIDE and it's a favorite of yours.  I'm sorry about that.  But they are still churning out a few b/w shows, which is more than I can say for 90% of the other outfits around.


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#9 of 23 OFFLINE   Neil Brock

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Posted November 27 2009 - 04:00 AM

From people I have talked to, the problem at Shout is that they really have no one working at the company who has a great deal of TV knowledge. You can find quite a few people in this forum that know more than anyone working there. That's the main problem. And yes, they are at the mercy of what they are given. Right now they are dealing with a lot of Fox properties and we all know how much Fox cares about and maintains it's back catalogue. So we get Room 222 from 30 year old dirty 16mm transfers to 1-inch tape. But even with all things considered, Shout has made the mistake of providing cut episodes on their first season sets too many times now. It keeps happening over and over again. And we get the same excuses. Somehow they manage to correct the problems for the second seasons. Well, if with a little effort they are able to obtain uncut episodes for the second season, why can't they put the same effort in and do it for the first seasons? Really is it that difficult before you release a product to check all of the running times? That takes, what, all of 10 minutes to do? Not talking brain surgery here. It's a very simple thing which somehow no one can be bothered to do. So either they are A) Lazy or incompetent or B) They just assume that the vast majority of the public (you know the same people who watch severely cut shows on TV) won't know any better. Take your pick which it is.

#10 of 23 OFFLINE   vnisanian2001

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Posted November 27 2009 - 04:18 AM



Quote:
Really is it that difficult before you release a product to check all of the running times? That takes, what, all of 10 minutes to do? Not talking brain surgery here. It's a very simple thing which somehow no one can be bothered to do. So either they are A) Lazy or incompetent or B) They just assume that the vast majority of the public (you know the same people who watch severely cut shows on TV) won't know any better. Take your pick which it is.

Um, they do know how to tell time, and know how long a show should last depending on the era, so stop assuming that they don't.

Go back to defending CBS, a DVD company that continues to get away with butchering many TV Shows with music edits.

I refuse to call them CBS/Paramount, because Paramount sold their souls to the devil.


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#11 of 23 OFFLINE   Gary OS

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Posted November 27 2009 - 04:50 AM

     Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Brock 

From people I have talked to, the problem at Shout is that they really have no one working at the company who has a great deal of TV knowledge. You can find quite a few people in this forum that know more than anyone working there. That's the main problem. And yes, they are at the mercy of what they are given. Right now they are dealing with a lot of Fox properties and we all know how much Fox cares about and maintains it's back catalogue. So we get Room 222 from 30 year old dirty 16mm transfers to 1-inch tape. But even with all things considered, Shout has made the mistake of providing cut episodes on their first season sets too many times now. It keeps happening over and over again. And we get the same excuses. Somehow they manage to correct the problems for the second seasons. Well, if with a little effort they are able to obtain uncut episodes for the second season, why can't they put the same effort in and do it for the first seasons? Really is it that difficult before you release a product to check all of the running times? That takes, what, all of 10 minutes to do? Not talking brain surgery here. It's a very simple thing which somehow no one can be bothered to do. So either they are A) Lazy or incompetent or B) They just assume that the vast majority of the public (you know the same people who watch severely cut shows on TV) won't know any better. Take your pick which it is.

Yep, I'm at exactly the same spot you are Neil.  The syndicated episodes deal has happened too many times now for me to keep giving them a pass on that issue.  It's really goofy and there's just no sane or reasonable explanation for it to keep happening.  As for which is the issue, it's hard to tell.  In one sense I have a hard time believing someone in the process wouldn't pick up on the running times issue.  Then again, I've seen some pretty bizarre things going on in this industry (as an outsider with a couple of inside contacts) so maybe incompetence does come into play more than one would normally think.


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#12 of 23 OFFLINE   Jeff Willis

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Posted November 27 2009 - 08:05 AM



Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Brock ">

So we get Room 222 from 30 year old dirty 16mm transfers to 1-inch tape. 
 
I agree with the Room 222 S1 set picture Q.  Although I like the show and bought S1, I won't get S2 unless Shout is able to obtain remastered (if they exist) prints or are able to do some restoration work on this show in-house.

Quote=Shane:
I remember Room 222 from earlier this year. Many episodes looked like what they were, meaning 40 year old shows with no clean-up. The people at this forum, who are some of the harshest critics you can find, didn't mind the fact that the episodes weren't pristine, because they were complete.
 
Shane, I hear you but I guess I'm in the minority here on this one.  I won't get another set with that print quality.  Uncut episodes are usually the #1 priority for me as with most here but I guess we all have our "line" regarding prints where we won't cross it and buy a set due to the picture Q.

I doubt I have as many Shout releases as most here, but the way I read the Shout issues and, imo, most of the other TV/DVD mfg's, what we want to see from them is consistancy in the product and adequate communication regarding said products.  As we've mentioned here previously, comparing the S1 & S2 FKB sets, Shout had some problems with S1 but corrected them with a good S2 set.  We've seen this before with other studios, aka "Route 66" S1/S2 releases.

As a MLB baseball watcher, I just want them to call a consistant strike zone and don't switch home plate umpires during the game.  All I want is "call the game the same day in-day out".

Just my take on it.

OT: +1 on Gary's "Hope you all had a good holiday".

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#13 of 23 OFFLINE   Gary OS

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Posted November 27 2009 - 09:01 AM

     Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Willis 

Don't overdo "Blk Friday" /img/vbsmilies/htf/laugh.gif

Since you know the few things I still need to pick up to get current (mostly some CBS/P stuff like the latest UNTOUCHABLE & FUGITIVE volumes), you also know I'm not going to overdo it today.  Gosh, it's been a very depressing week for me in terms of deals.  Seems like there were deals for just about every studio except CBS/P and Shout, which were the only ones I really needed to have sales!  Very frustrating.

Of course if anyone cares to take a look at Amazon's Black Friday TV section, and see the "by decades" breakdown of what's on sale, it's kinda obvious I wasn't going to have a big day buying anything from them.  They have a grand total of 10 sets from the 50's/60's.  Move up the ladder and it gets much better if you're a fan of any other decade - especially of anything released since 2000.  How much more imbalanced could Amazon get with those ratios?  But hey, no fear.  I'm told there's absolutely nothing to my concerns that vintage TV on DVD is slowly dying.  It's just my imagination... /img/vbsmilies/htf/rolleyes.gif


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#14 of 23 OFFLINE   MatthewA

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Posted November 28 2009 - 09:53 AM

Fox could easily remaster Room 222, The Paper Chase, Peyton Place, or any film show they own. But they don't. They either don't know what they own or don't care. It seems like they want these shows to be buried. CBS/Paramount remasters. Sony has remastered much of their stuff in the past 10-12 years. WB remastered their TV library in the 1990s. Universal probably has to remaster theirs because of that recent vault fire which claimed their then-current tape masters. Disney remastered their small television library in the late 1990s but sits on it (the Zorro "Treasures" sets notwithstanding). MGM appears to have remastered some of their TV shows.

And I remember an article a few months ago about the guy in charge of Chicago's Me-TV; he said he had to remind the guy at either Columbia or WB's syndication division what shows they owned. The people currently running the studios did not work their way up to the top. They have no idea what they own and they don't care. Even if Shout! had a list of what to expect of running times based on decades, they don't have the money or clout to demand remasters unless fans complain. But they're among the few who apparently listen. The fact that this applies across the board just hasn't stuck yet.

Who is the next victim of studio and distributor negligence and apathy going to be?

Enough is enough, Disney. No more evasions or excuses. We DEMAND the release Song of the South on Blu-ray along with the uncut version of Bedknobs and Broomsticks on Blu-ray. I am going to boycott The Walt Disney Company until then.


#15 of 23 OFFLINE   Neil Brock

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Posted November 29 2009 - 04:25 PM



Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewA 

Fox could easily remaster Room 222, The Paper Chase, Peyton Place, or any film show they own. But they don't. They either don't know what they own or don't care. It seems like they want these shows to be buried. CBS/Paramount remasters. Sony has remastered much of their stuff in the past 10-12 years. WB remastered their TV library in the 1990s. Universal probably has to remaster theirs because of that recent vault fire which claimed their then-current tape masters. Disney remastered their small television library in the late 1990s but sits on it (the Zorro "Treasures" sets notwithstanding). MGM appears to have remastered some of their TV shows.

And I remember an article a few months ago about the guy in charge of Chicago's Me-TV; he said he had to remind the guy at either Columbia or WB's syndication division what shows they owned. The people currently running the studios did not work their way up to the top. They have no idea what they own and they don't care. Even if Shout! had a list of what to expect of running times based on decades, they don't have the money or clout to demand remasters unless fans complain. But they're among the few who apparently listen. The fact that this applies across the board just hasn't stuck yet.

Who is the next victim of studio and distributor negligence and apathy going to be?
 
      Mister Ed ran uncut on Nick at Nite in the 80s in the days before they started editing for commercials. So there certainly are an existing set of them remastered to tape on 1-inch. But you are right about the lack of knowledge that these suits have for their own inventory. Pretty much every studio I've ever spoken to, I knew far more about the shows that they owned than they did. The problem isn't their lack of knowledge, it's their lack of initiative in seeking out the knowledge.


#16 of 23 OFFLINE   DeWilson

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Posted November 29 2009 - 08:21 PM


Library titles always suffer. Shorts,Serials and Newsreels are neglected the most!


#17 of 23 OFFLINE   Theodore J. Mooney

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Posted December 07 2009 - 06:17 AM

I will be purchasing this set at some point. My DVD collection wouldn't be complete without Mister Ed.
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#18 of 23 OFFLINE   Jeff Willis

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Posted December 07 2009 - 06:36 AM

I'm still on the fence on this show on DVD.  I have so many others waiting to be viewed.

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#19 of 23 OFFLINE   ChrisALM

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Posted December 07 2009 - 11:48 AM

I am still on the fence, but I am waiting to see if Season 2 and Season 3 are released in an complete, unedited manner. Then I will feel more like finding a used Season 1 set and continuing on with the rest. This is what I eventually did with FKB.

#20 of 23 OFFLINE   Lecagr

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Posted January 17 2010 - 03:52 AM

MatthewA: "How To Be Popular" is the shorter episode of The Patty Duke Show in the season one set. It was the first episode filmed after the pilot, perhaps that's the reason for the shorter running time, but the episode is complete on the DVD. From 2006 to 2008 I recorded all 104 uncut Patty Duke shows from Chicago's Me-TV, Me-TOO and This-TV so I won't be purchasing the series from Shout Factory.

Shout Factory has had some missteps regarding uncut episodes of some TV shows, but overall their track record is pretty good. I suspect some DVD episodes of That Girl might be edited versions. CBS DVD is probably the worst of all the studios with the way they have butchered some shows. Fox did alright with their releases of Lost In Space, Time Tunnel, and White Shadow. I'm satisfied with all three of those. I don't know yet if I'm going to buy the Mister Ed DVD's, the 1st season set had some edited episodes. I'm not a big fan of the show but if the season 2 set has all uncut episodes I might decide to buy it.

Shout Factory has issued 1st seasons of some TV shows with edited episodes, then after that they seem to be able to come up with the uncut episodes. This is just a theory, but when they issue the 1st season of a show perhaps they are "testing the market" so to speak to see how well the sales go before they invest a lot of money into the product. If the 1st season sells well despite some edited episodes, then they are willing to put more effort and investment into tracking down the uncut episodes for future releases. Doing things this way, of course you still have the fans upset about the edited episodes from the 1st season. But maybe that's a risk they're willing to take. I think if a studio knows beforehand that a particular show will be a big seller, they are usually willing to go the extra mile from the start to get complete episodes on the discs. Look at The Brady Bunch, for example. Paramount made the extra effort to put complete episodes on the discs rather than infuriate all the Brady Bunch faithful. There are still a few glitches with a couple of those episodes, but the issues are minor.