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How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966) Recolored?


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#1 of 26 Guest__*

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Posted October 07 2009 - 03:18 AM

The blu-ray comparisons that are just starting to trickle out show some of the most dramatic color changes I've seen in awhile regarding animation. Apparently they want to take the 1966 version of the Grinch and make him bright lime green like the Jim Carrey version. I've always remembered the old VHS/broadcast/book version being a very dull green.

So this isn't cool right?


#2 of 26 OFFLINE   Rhoq

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Posted October 07 2009 - 05:00 AM

Wow. The drab colors shown in the caps from the original DVD release are how I've always known it. The coloring of DVD/Blu-ray caps just look wrong. Very disappointing.


#3 of 26 OFFLINE   Jack Theakston

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Posted October 07 2009 - 05:26 AM

Looks like the negative was printed too light.  The old transfer is also too blue (probably because of a fading element).

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#4 of 26 OFFLINE   Powell&Pressburger

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Posted October 07 2009 - 05:57 AM

I was thinking the same as JACK - I think the negative used on previous editions was not correct or faded. Not to say there wasn't any boosting done... but I bought the BD yesterday along with Charlie Brown.. I watched several mins of Brown and it looked what I would expect doesn't seem color boosted at all.. a few artifacts maybe but it looked as it should.

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#5 of 26 OFFLINE   MatthewA

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Posted October 07 2009 - 08:12 AM

 I'm going to play devil's advocate, but maybe this is what it's supposed to look like, and years of fading and wear (I doubt TV animated productions used successive exposure, because they were notorious for cutting costs everywhere) have distorted its appearance?

And I looked for some pictures of "Grinch" animation cels for reference and I found one:

http://www.animation...tion Cel<br />
And this site:

Song of the South on Blu-ray along with the uncut version of Bedknobs and Broomsticks on Blu-ray. I am going to boycott The Walt Disney Company until then. And while you're at it, PLEASE stop dropping DVD/laserdisc extras from Blu-ray releases of other films.


#6 of 26 OFFLINE   Brandon Conway

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Posted October 07 2009 - 08:59 AM



Originally Posted by MatthewA 

I'm guessing some long-needed restoration has been performed.
Frankly, it seems this way to me too. There were some similar dramatic color shifts on many of the restored Looney Tunes shorts, too, and the anecdotal evidence of the original cels seems to indicate the Grinch was green

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#7 of 26 ONLINE   TravisR

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Posted October 07 2009 - 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by MatthewA 

 I'm going to play devil's advocate, but maybe this is what it's supposed to look like, and years of fading and wear (I doubt TV animated productions used successive exposure, because they were notorious for cutting costs everywhere) have distorted its appearance?

I could be wrong but that's my guess too and for the same reasons. I would think it's tough to say that the TV broadcasts or any of its previous video incarnations were definitely correct either.

#8 of 26 OFFLINE   Rob W

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Posted October 07 2009 - 09:45 AM

 I own three original cels from the production ( two with the Grinch ) and can confirm he is the lime green color as he now appears on the blu-ray screen caps. The new colors are far more accurate to the cels than the 'before' version. ( Haven't seen the actual disc yet )

#9 of 26 OFFLINE   Jeff Newcomb

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Posted October 07 2009 - 10:42 AM

What you are seeing is the Grinch printed properly for the first time in decades.  It's cause for celebration.


#10 of 26 OFFLINE   Jack Theakston

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Posted October 07 2009 - 11:09 AM

You don't think it's perhaps possible that the animators had an idea of how certain colors photographed and tweaked their palette accordingly, do you?

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#11 of 26 OFFLINE   Paul Hillenbrand

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Posted October 07 2009 - 11:59 AM



Originally Posted by Jeff Newcomb [url=/forum/thread/293697/how-the-grinch-stole-christmas-1966-recolored#post_3614796]

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#12 of 26 OFFLINE   Douglas Monce

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Posted October 07 2009 - 12:26 PM

I think it might be likely that the print that we have been looking at all this time, was color timed so that it could be run an old tele-cine machine. As such it would be likely that the colors would be somewhat muted to accommodate the limited color range of the NTSC system. I'm talking now about the days when a film print was run live for national broadcast.

I agree with others here who suspect that this is what the colors were supposed to look like all along.

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Posted October 07 2009 - 12:26 PM

This probably won't garner the same amount of hype as Wizard of Oz ... but yeah, a few looks at the original cels show he was always supposed to be bright green.

It's amazing how someone screwed up the original transfer for TV broadcasts or simply chose to tone down the green. And this is the version we came to know.

Anyone know if color TV's in 1966 could even show that shade of green correctly?... they might of said "screw it, this is to radical".


#14 of 26 OFFLINE   MatthewA

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Posted October 07 2009 - 12:28 PM

     Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Theakston [url=/forum/thread/293697/how-the-grinch-stole-christmas-1966-recolored#post_3614804]

Paul
  I'm impressed that you taped that on a 2" Quad machine. Those things were as big as refrigerators and the tapes were the opposite of cheap. Did you work at a TV station? If more people had your foresight a lot of shows might still exist in some form today.

Of course the other Dr. Seuss TV specials were animated by DePatie-Freleng Enterprises, not Chuck Jones, and for what it's worth the Grinch was white in the book.

Enough is enough, Disney. No more evasions or excuses. We DEMAND the release Song of the South on Blu-ray along with the uncut version of Bedknobs and Broomsticks on Blu-ray. I am going to boycott The Walt Disney Company until then. And while you're at it, PLEASE stop dropping DVD/laserdisc extras from Blu-ray releases of other films.


#15 of 26 OFFLINE   Paul Penna

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Posted October 07 2009 - 12:59 PM

Wow. Originally pigment paints on celluloid, photographed on who knows what kind of color film emulsion, transferred to video with 1966-vintage telecine and video tape for original broadcast, then viewed on 1966-era phosphor CRTs - who knows HOW the thing is really supposed to look?

#16 of 26 OFFLINE   RobertR

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Posted October 07 2009 - 02:33 PM

It never ceases to amaze me how often people use DVD (or even laserdisc) as their quality reference for BR.


#17 of 26 OFFLINE   MatthewA

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Posted October 07 2009 - 03:30 PM



Originally Posted by Paul Penna 

Wow. Originally pigment paints on celluloid, photographed on who knows what kind of color film emulsion, transferred to video with 1966-vintage telecine and video tape for original broadcast, then viewed on 1966-era phosphor CRTs - who knows HOW the thing is really supposed to look?
It wasn't even transferred to video back then. It was a print run through a film chain, which had a video camera attached to it, which sent the video signal to the control booth, which sent it out to the network feed. Studios didn't start transferring filmed TV programs to tape for the networks until the mid-1980s.

Enough is enough, Disney. No more evasions or excuses. We DEMAND the release Song of the South on Blu-ray along with the uncut version of Bedknobs and Broomsticks on Blu-ray. I am going to boycott The Walt Disney Company until then. And while you're at it, PLEASE stop dropping DVD/laserdisc extras from Blu-ray releases of other films.


#18 of 26 OFFLINE   BillyFeldman

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Posted October 07 2009 - 04:16 PM

 The color on the new Blu-Ray is superb and matches the cels.  That's all anyone needs to know.  It's finally the way it's supposed to look and everyone should be very happy.

#19 of 26 OFFLINE   Jack Theakston

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Posted October 08 2009 - 09:13 AM


Quote:
Supposedly there were no IB Tech prints (properly color balanced or otherwise) done for TV because they are too contrasty to run through a telecine, but I've heard rumors that all of Disney's TV shows were printed in IB until the dye-transfer lab closed.

That's the "print the myth" story, but it's not exactly true.  Many network programs were done on Eastman stock because they were sending out a signal feed and only needed four prints (two 35mm for the west coast, two for the east).  Making new matrices for what would essentially be one-offs would be cost prohibitive.

However, most of the movies that were nationally broadcast were generally Technicolor since the studio still had access to the matrices used for the theatrical run.  I've handled a number of 35mm Technicolor TV prints.

16mm is a different ball park, of course, and I'd think that it'd have less to do with contrast and more to do with registration and sharpness issues at that point.

-J. Theakston

#20 of 26 OFFLINE   Mike Frezon

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Posted October 08 2009 - 09:35 AM

Jack:  Why don't you make your old sig pic your avatar? 

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