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Cerwin Vega! FE12" 300 watts, need receiver suggestions.


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Posted July 13 2009 - 07:16 AM

I just bought the Cerwin Vegas VE12 and I need to know what I should get for a really good reciever for them. They are 300 watts each and I just am now building my dream system. I mean my iPod sounds good but I want to have a really good stereo system that the whole block can enjoy. lol. j/k. Any suggestions? 
Edited by Dean Krouse - 7/14/2009 at 08:05 pm GMT

#2 of 78 OFFLINE   Gary Shipley

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Posted July 13 2009 - 07:55 AM

Dean. Is this going to be a stereo system only, or 5.1, 7.1 for home theater as well as music?  Whats your budget? $300, $600, or more?


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Posted July 13 2009 - 11:19 PM

 It is going to be only a stereo. I am not hooking it to my LCD or using them for anything but CD's and my iPod connection. My budget is around 300-400 dollars.

#4 of 78 OFFLINE   Gary Shipley

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Posted July 14 2009 - 12:25 AM

You might consider the Pioneer VSX-819. It sells for around $300 and has a front USB port for your iPod and the USB cable is included. You can find out more about it at the Pioneer web site.
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Posted July 14 2009 - 04:20 AM

 Thank you very much I am going to look that up and do some homework on its ratings, maybe CNET has reviewed it even. Thank you either way!

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Posted July 14 2009 - 04:26 AM

 Question about the Pioneer receiver. It is rated at 550 watts according to Best Buy's website. I always heard that the receiver should always be less than the total output of the speakers. This way the speakers can never be blown by turning them up too loud. Is that true? Should I be looking for a receiver rated at or under 300 watts?

#7 of 78 OFFLINE   David Willow

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Posted July 14 2009 - 05:24 AM

The pioneer puts out 110 watts per channel.  Of course it does not state what it puts out with all channels driven so expect less.  Plus, these numbers are usually "fluffed" a bit (watts sells since most consumers don't understand).  In any case, your speakers maximum input is 300 watts and you will be lucky to get 100 watts from the Pioneer.

Your speakers are safe.


#8 of 78 OFFLINE   JohnRice

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Posted July 14 2009 - 06:15 AM

Dean, you'll help yourself if you stop looking at numbers so much.  I'll help by dispelling some misconceptions.  The speakers aren't 300 watts.  They are unpowered, so they have no watts at all.  Manufacturers throw out meaningless specs like that so people will think they mean something.  Cerwin Vega speakers a typically very sensitive, meaning it takes very little power to drive them to a decent level.  Regarding the comment that the amp should have less power than the speakers are rated to handle so you don't damage them, the exact opposite is actually true.  Speakers are rarely damaged by CLEAN power.  They are damaged when the amp is driven beyond it's ability, into distortion.  More important, refer back to the sensitivity of the speakers.  It probably doesn't take much to run them loud, so you really have no problem since any decent receiver will run them louder than you are likely to want.  The only specs on a speaker which really mean anything are the impedance (no doubt 8 ohm), the sensitivity (probably in the high 90s, which is very sensitive) and maybe the low frequency limit, which is probably exaggerated anyway.  BTW, high sensitivity isn't necessarily "good" unless you want to play loud.  It in no way indicates the quality of the speaker.  In fact, most high quality speakers have rather low sensitivity.

The bottom line is, Cerwin Vega speakers are designed to play loud with practically anything.

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The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#9 of 78 OFFLINE   Stephen Tu

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Posted July 14 2009 - 07:28 AM

Your ears are going to get blown out before the speakers :)

The receiver's wattage ratings are *per channel*, so it's not going to drive the speakers with more than 110w, and that's probably optimistic.

Wattage in the absence of other parameters is often a completely meaningless spec not worth looking at all in most cases.
One cares more about how loud you can go which depends on speaker sensitivity:
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html


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Posted July 14 2009 - 08:03 AM

 Thank you guys so much for all the information! I didnt know much of what you all have enlightened me to. THANK YOU very much. This is a great website for people who know what they are talking about. Seriously, thank you for helping me. It helps arm me against the salesman who actually told me the whole watts arrangement. 

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Posted July 14 2009 - 08:04 AM

 Would you guys say Cerwin Vega 12's are a good speaker then with your educated opinions?

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Posted July 14 2009 - 08:08 AM

 That Pioneer has a very good rating and is available at my local best buy. I will probably be buying this one this weekend. Thank you for the advice. Are there any other people's advice on a good 2 speaker stereo system that will compliment my set of Cerwin Vega! VE12.

#13 of 78 OFFLINE   David Willow

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Posted July 14 2009 - 08:11 AM

A good speaker is whatever sounds best to you.

However.... /img/vbsmilies/htf/smiley_wink.gif Cerwin Vega's are designed to play loud.  If you want to host a party that the neighbors around the block can dance too, then they are great.  If you are trying to build a higher end home theater, then, IMO, look elsewhere.


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Posted July 14 2009 - 08:24 AM

 Yea, I don't really want my neighbors to be bothered by my music. However, I had a set of Cerwins 10 years ago and truly loved the deep clear bass and the likewise crisp highs and mids. To my ear they sound great so I guess that's all that counts huh? Even at low volume they sound good. But I will admit I like to see that Bass vibrating in and out on bass heavy songs. But I also listen to some Classical music like Mozart and find the delicate side clear and enjoyable. 

I paid $199.00 each for them. It's really what I can afford now. 

One more question, what in anyones opinion would be a complete stereo system built around the CV VE12s? Should I buy an equalizer to arrange the sound better to suite my ear?

Also, (sorry one more question.) Is there really a "break-in" period for speakers? I have been told by a few people that there is. Is it true?

Edited by Dean Krouse - 7/14/2009 at 09:09 pm GMT

#15 of 78 OFFLINE   MarvinJr

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Posted July 14 2009 - 08:30 AM

If all these numbers mean nothing as yall keep saying, then whats the use of them? Seems like everytime some asks about it, the same response is don't use the numbers....

The avr states 100 watts per channel, so according to what yall say.....I could use a 2 watt speaker? Numbers mean nothing.

Rather than saying they don't mean anything, try explaining it. They have to mean something. Maybe they are not exact, but they do mean something.

#16 of 78 OFFLINE   David Willow

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Posted July 14 2009 - 09:20 AM



Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinJr 

If all these numbers mean nothing as yall keep saying, then whats the use of them? Seems like everytime some asks about it, the same response is don't use the numbers....

The avr states 100 watts per channel, so according to what yall say.....I could use a 2 watt speaker? Numbers mean nothing.

Rather than saying they don't mean anything, try explaining it. They have to mean something. Maybe they are not exact, but they do mean something.

Did you read John's post above?  The numbers mean something and John explained it better than I ever could.





#17 of 78 OFFLINE   AudioENG

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Posted July 14 2009 - 09:32 AM

Dean,

I owned a pair of Cerwin-Vega E12 speakers.  I loved them, they played very loud and had an overall good sound quality.  I was using a Yamaha receiver to power them that was about 110 W per channel.  When I updated my system (for surround sound) I gave them to my brother who had a sony receiver that was about 100 W per channel and they still sounded pretty good.  I preferred the yamaha but it was significantly more expensive.

You could go with a two channel receiver since you won't be using it for surround sound.

Sony:  STR-DH100 (bestbuy.com)

But I'd definitely recommend a yamaha receiver.  A lot of times receivers under $500 from a specific brand don't have any significant amplifier differences they only have differences in the video section, like number of inputs, or surround sound settings.  Which in your case isn't important.

Check out the
Yamaha:  RX-V365 (bestbuy.com)

I wouldn't spend money on an EQ, most receivers when set to Stereo or 2CH mode have a good balanced sound, also most receivers have a bass and treble knob to make small adjustments.

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Marvin Jr,

I understand your frustration.  I think what most people mean is don't get caught up in manufactures "stated" specs.  Take the power rating for example.  There are a lot of things that go into consideration when coming up with a power rating for an amplifier.

A system could be 100 Watts per channel with the following restrictions:
it's driven into 8 ohms
it's rated at a specific frequency of 1 khz - which is not the whole range of the amp (20hz-20khz or sometimes even more)
the THD (total harmonic distortion) is 10% - which is high compared to some amps that are less than 1%
and finally they usually don't say if it is all channels driven simultaneously or just one channel at a time, and they usually print Peak power (what the receiver is capable of producing for a split second) instead of or RMS (a more continuous rating).

That is why it's hard to compare just a number when you don't know all the different factors that go in to coming up with that number.  A good example is a cheap home theater in a box may say 1000 Watts but compared to a 200 watt yamaha receiver and good speakers this HTIB won't sound nearly as good.  The best way to evaluate a system is always how does it sound to you.


#18 of 78 OFFLINE   Stephen Tu

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Posted July 14 2009 - 09:36 AM


Quote:
If all these numbers mean nothing as yall keep saying, then whats the use of them? Seems like everytime some asks about it, the same response is don't use the numbers....
OK, the rule is generally don't pay attention to wattage numbers.
This is because:
- for receivers, the companies tend to fudge the numbers in various ways so you can't directly compare anyway, you get less than advertised.  Despite this, for home usage with typical speakers and listening volumes that won't cause permanent hearing damage, you are basically guaranteed to have enough power.
- for speakers, again you'll tend to blow out your hearing before reaching a power level that can damage the drivers.
- in general, small differences in wattage aren't very meaningful, because you have to double the power to get a +3dB increase in volume, which is "turn the volume up a bit".

exceptions:
- you are putting on a concert and need to blast away at loud levels in a huge gymnasium/auditorium or the like.
- you have exotic low impedance speakers like the Magneplanars someone was having trouble powering in another thread.

The numbers for speakers you tend to look at are frequency response, particularly at the low end, sensitivity, impedance.  And driver sizes + overall size.  Not anything to do with watts.


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Posted July 14 2009 - 09:49 AM

 AudioEng, Stephen Tu, David Willow, hope I didn't forget anyone who was very helpful to me. Thank you all again for helping me to disseminate all  the information. I think I know what I am going to do now.

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Posted July 14 2009 - 10:26 AM

 114 db?!!? wow, thats in the painful range.