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Need a new TV 52" LCD probably - Advice please


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14 replies to this topic

#1 of 15 OFFLINE   Dave>h

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Posted April 26 2009 - 02:02 PM

HI,

Haven't been around in a while and recently moved to Texas and I find myself in need of a new TV.

The only retailer I know in the area is Best Buy so will most likely purchase from them unless other Houstontoniens (sp) have other options... I am considering Amazon as there would be no sales tax correct.

My viewing distance will be about 10 ft in a reasonably dark room. the majority of viewing will be a mix of blu ray, HD dvd, HD TV (mostly sports - football and golf) and possibly some ppv, and some gaming with either a playstation 3 or and xbox 360 - tend to play racing games and golf. (The PS3 will probably end up being my blu ray player and gaming console if I decide to go that route as it seems to me a combo of x-box and blu ray player is more expensive...taking opinions on this too!!)

I owned a 61 inch Samsung DLP for 4 years in my previous life and LOVED it but I think a switch to an LCD is warranted given the size of my room and that I do want it to hang on the wall.

I do not know whether i need 120 hz or not. Will 60 hz do.

Any advice is much appreciated.

Dave

My price range is about $2K give or take a few hundred.

#2 of 15 OFFLINE   Debo

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Posted April 28 2009 - 01:07 AM

Dave,

Is there a reason your not considering a Plasma?

#3 of 15 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

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Posted April 28 2009 - 03:42 AM

If you are really serious about achieving the best viewing experience, I don't recommend hanging any TV on a wall. Front projection is different story. I also don't recommend LCD over plasma or DLP for the best picture quality. LCD is good for solving certain sets of problems but not for ultimate image fidelity of viewing comfort.

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#4 of 15 OFFLINE   Dave>h

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Posted April 28 2009 - 10:07 AM

Hi,

I have been away from the home theater world for a while and thought that LCD was leading the way as far as technology and the "format war".

I loved my Samsung DLP once I calibrated it (using the spyder calibration tool) but my current location has some space constraints which somewhat necessitate hanging the TV on the wall. I would gladly own another DLP but had thought the industry was moving away from the technology (the Local best buy doesn't even really carry them eventhough I think they are the best technology and have far less serious stuff that can go wrong with them than plasma or LCD, changing a light bulb is pretty easy and relatively inexpensive).

That being said, my experience with plasma is that they are far too reflective for my taste and have a tendency to go badly (buddy had 3 panny plasmas and the motherboard went bad on all three, he went with a toshiba LCD after the third panny crapped out). And when things go bad, you basically just throw the set away... and that can get to be expensive! I guess the same argument hold true for LCD (if it goes there is not much you can do) but I understand their reliability is better than plasma.

Therefore by opting for LCD, I think I am taking the "middle ground"... I don't like them as much as DLP but I like them more than plasma and given the space constraints, it seems like the best solution.

So does anyone have any suggestions on a good LCD tv? 60 hz, 120 hz or 240 hz, makes, models?? Price range is around $2K, something around 52 to 55 inches would be ideal.

thanks,

DAve

#5 of 15 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

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Posted April 28 2009 - 11:11 AM

Just be clear on your priorities. The current batch of DLP RPTVs are not very deep. Subtract the depth of a wall mounted LCD and mount from a 12" deep RPTV and you'll likely only have about 9" of difference. If you go with an LCD, I wouldn't recommend anything but one with LED back lighting for better blacks. I would look at the Samsungs. The sets with 120 or 240 Hz capabilities go about it in different ways. Thus far such a feature can cause problems as well as solve others. Frame interpolation is being touted as a benefit, but carries the same caveats. LED lit panels are among the more expensive models in their respective lines, so they may not fit your budget. The best size/cost/performance package still seems to be DLP.

#6 of 15 OFFLINE   ManW_TheUncool

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Posted April 28 2009 - 11:35 AM

I don't normally visit AVS, but I recall one or two folks "hanging" their 61-67" Sammy LED-based DLPs on the wall. Posted Image If you *must* hang the set, maybe you should look into the feasibility of doing that before settling on a more expensive, more PQ-compromised LCD. Posted Image

Like GeorgeAB said above, these slimmed down Sammy DLPs can be quite shallow (and light-weight). My 61" unit is only ~15.5" deep at its deepest point (and part of that depth is actually spread between the main cabinet and the built-in pedestal/feet that extends forward at the base). It actually appears much slimmer than that unless you're looking at a direct side profile of it. Of course, if you "hang" it up, you'll still need to allow for the actual, full depth on top of your choice of mechanism.

BTW, are you sure you can safely hang a big TV set on your wall? Just asking as not all walls can handle that. Posted Image

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#7 of 15 OFFLINE   Dave>h

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Posted April 29 2009 - 02:43 AM

George,

Your points are well taken. I was actually thinking that given the size of an amplifier and associated components in a stand under the TV, a DLP would not seriously add to the overall footprint of the home entertainment area. By hanging an LCD on the wall, I probably only save about 6 - 10 inches in space although it would probably seem like a lot more space was being taken up by the dlp because the screen would be farther from the wall.

I am going to have to measure things up again and reconsider. I did love my DLP and really did think it wa the best bang for the buck at the time (4 years ago). It was absolutely problem free the entire time I owned it and I only replaced the lightbulb just before I sold it.

Is the light engine for the LED dlp's as easier to replace and inexpensive as the bulbs for the dlp?

If I were to go DLP, i would go Samsung, is there a particular model you would recommend? Any I should stay away from? I understand that the fourth generation chipset may not provide as good of black levels as the third generation, think I read that somewhere.

Thanks again,

Dave

Man, appreciate your input too, please feel free to suggest

#8 of 15 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

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Posted April 29 2009 - 04:30 AM

The LED lamped DLPs have various problems due to the extra gain required in the screen design to compensate for lower light output from the lamp. There's pros and cons like any TV design. I tend to prefer the traditional lamp versions for overall image quality.

#9 of 15 OFFLINE   Dave>h

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Posted April 29 2009 - 07:11 AM

Are all the Samsungs LED or are some of them tradition lamp style?

If they are all LED, which models still have the simpler lamp design?

Thanks,

Dave

#10 of 15 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

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Posted April 29 2009 - 01:55 PM

Check out their model line and you'll see which ones use the traditional lamp and which ones use LEDs.

#11 of 15 OFFLINE   Dave>h

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Posted April 30 2009 - 03:38 AM

George,

In your opinion, what are the problems with the LED light systems? Are the contrast ratios lower than the traditional lamp? Is there more issues with the TV's in general? I am liking the idea of a DLP more and more but do want to make an informed decision before I purchase any TV.

I don't want to get too caught up in the "cool, it hangs on a wall" mentality when I am sacrificing picture quality and ease of use to get it.

As I said, I am a fan of DLP so can easily be convinced to go in that direction but if the technology is dead, then from a resale perspective, I should still consider the LCD as no one would want to purchase a DLP...

Thanks,

Dave

#12 of 15 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

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Posted April 30 2009 - 03:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave>h
George,

In your opinion, what are the problems with the LED light systems?
See the first sentence in post #8.

#13 of 15 OFFLINE   Dave>h

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Posted April 30 2009 - 04:08 AM

What are those problems though? I do not understand what you mean by "gain" and why that would cause problems.

Thanks

Dave

#14 of 15 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

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Posted April 30 2009 - 04:19 AM

Restricted viewing angles, hot spotting, white field non-uniformity, color shift, etc. These are all characteristics of higher gain, Fresnel/lenticular, rear projection type screen composition. As the gain is increased, these consequences also increase in severity. Less gain is required if lumen output is higher. The LED lamps used do not put out as much light as traditional lamps, so a higher gain screen is required to compensate.

#15 of 15 OFFLINE   ManW_TheUncool

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Posted May 01 2009 - 01:10 PM

I suspect you'll probably have to experience them for yourself to determine which set of compromises end up working best for you.

From a PQ perspective, I'm guessing you'll end up prefering the traditional lamp style DLP since you already loved it and don't seem to take issue w/ its set of compromises. You'll probably have more choices if you go that route too -- Samsung's most recent (discontinued?) line of LED DLPs only included 61" and 67", and they are typically priced $200-300 higher than the non-LED counterparts.

And seems that if you buy a (consumer-level anyway) LED-based display of any kind, you're not gonna be replacing the LED light/lamp -- it's intended to last the entire life of the display. For instance, the most recent line of Samsung LED DLPs have the LED light rated for ~60K hours of use (to half-life). If you don't care about this (vs changing lamps periodically as expected, which might be infrequent enough for you), then that's one less benefit of LED for you to consider. But tied to this aspect is the fact that the traditional lamp-based units also use a color wheel (and retain whatever issues that come w/ that design, including reliability issues that many DLP owners have experienced) -- the LED-based DLPs do not use a color wheel.

But again, if you didn't see anything undesirable about the old DLP design, then I'm guessing you'll probably end up prefering one of those instead of an LED-based model.

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