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Pearl Jam - "Ten" (Legacy Edition)


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#1 of 24 OFFLINE   Jean D

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Posted March 24 2009 - 03:19 PM

Im impressed by the remixed quality. much more detail has been enhanced I feel. If only this would be done to other great albums from the 90's like Siamese Dream and Under the Table and Dreaming. Anyone else diggin' the new vibe of this classic?
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#2 of 24 OFFLINE   Ron Reda

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Posted March 26 2009 - 04:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean D
Im impressed by the remixed quality. much more detail has been enhanced I feel. If only this would be done to other great albums from the 90's like Siamese Dream and Under the Table and Dreaming. Anyone else diggin' the new vibe of this classic?

I haven't had a chance to fully check out the remastered version yet, but the remixed side was kinda weird to me. I think it's just cuz I'm SO familiar with the previous mixes that the new ones just seemed kind of jarring to me.

As for "Siamese Dream," I've always wanted a nice pristine copy of this on SACD or the like, but I doubt we'll ever see it. Not only that, but it seems the way it was recorded is the way Corgan wants (fuzzy and undefined on some songs), so here's to hoping.

As for, "Under The Table...," I actually feel that this is easily one of my better sounding mass produced/mainstream discs! It has some very tight low-end (beginning drum roll to start off "Best Of What's Around") and some room ambiance and clever mixing on "Pay For What You Get" (hard-panning Carter's drums to the right, etc.). It also has some very wide stereo separation...well done.
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#3 of 24 OFFLINE   Carl Miller

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Posted March 29 2009 - 03:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Reda
I haven't had a chance to fully check out the remastered version yet, but the remixed side was kinda weird to me. I think it's just cuz I'm SO familiar with the previous mixes that the new ones just seemed kind of jarring to me.

Remastering is one thing, but remixing?

I read some web music critic suggested that the remix of Black was an improvement because it rocks a little more and sounds less like a standard power ballad. I can't believe any serious fan of rock music would suggest that Black sounded like a typical power ballad to begin with, but even if it did, so what?

Some albums should be left alone as they were because they were already great, flaws and all...or because that's how they were meant to be. Ten, for me, is one of those albums.

I really hope this isn't the start of some trend, and we don't see Superunknown, Dirt, Nevermind etc remixed.
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#4 of 24 OFFLINE   AnthonyC

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Posted March 29 2009 - 07:20 AM

The original version is still part of the package, so I don't see what the problem is. They're not rewriting history, they're just offering a new listening experience.

#5 of 24 OFFLINE   Ron Reda

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Posted March 30 2009 - 04:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyC
The original version is still part of the package, so I don't see what the problem is. They're not rewriting history, they're just offering a new listening experience.

Agreed. From what I understand, they were going for having it sound like their other output as how it stands now, Ten sounds the least like the other PJ records...it's a bit too slick and produced compared to their others.
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#6 of 24 OFFLINE   Carl Miller

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Posted March 30 2009 - 11:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyC
The original version is still part of the package, so I don't see what the problem is. They're not rewriting history, they're just offering a new listening experience.

No problem, I simply don't care for the idea. I think it's pointless, and in the case of Ten, completely unnecessary. It's the type of thing I could see being done to something that needs improvement.

Sorry, I'm old fashioned. There are certain things in the world of the arts to me that are good enough and relevant enough that they could and should simply stand on their own in their original form. Picasso's works don't need a little extra blue around the edges, Catcher in the Rye need not be updated with 21st century slang and Pearl Jam's Ten doesn't need to be remixed.
Carl

#7 of 24 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted March 30 2009 - 02:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Miller
Picasso's works don't need a little extra blue around the edges...
I'm not an art history major but I imagine that Picasso tweaked his paintings years after they were initially seen by the public.

#8 of 24 OFFLINE   Carl Miller

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Posted March 31 2009 - 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR
I'm not an art history major but I imagine that Picasso tweaked his paintings years after they were initially seen by the public.

Perhaps...but he didn't tweak them after they were in someone elses possession.

Obviously I'm in the minority here and that's cool...but I have a lot of memories attached to music, and those are triggered by hearing a song a certain way...as it was when I first heard it. When the music changes 10, 20 years later, so does the response to that music.
Carl

#9 of 24 OFFLINE   AnthonyC

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Posted March 31 2009 - 02:08 PM

If it were a situation like Star Wars where George Lucas initially only released the amended versions on DVD, I would totally be with you. In fairness, Pearl Jam is about the only major grunge band I'm not a big fan of (although I do own Ten and their greatest hits set, as well as a live EP) so maybe it wouldn't bother me as much as if, say, they gave Nevermind this treatment. I guess it's like Let it Be and Let it Be...Naked. Probably unnecessary but a neat compliment to the original.

Speaking of Nirvana, I'm hearing that there's a deluxe edition of Bleach on the way in June.

#10 of 24 OFFLINE   Russell G

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Posted March 31 2009 - 02:17 PM

I love the new mix of TEN. When it came out, I was never much of a fan of the album, it was VS. that made me a Pearl Jam fan. This remix strikes me as sounding the way it was supposed to sound, only they had no control at the time. By VS. they did.

I picked up the set for the unplugged DVD. Still haven't watched the DVD yet, but have listened to the remixed TEN a bunch of times. Great stuff in my opinion.

As far as doing this for other albums, SIAMESE DREAM sounds like it should I think and wouldn't be as appropriate. I think this PJ release is one of the few that make sense. Posted Image

#11 of 24 OFFLINE   Carl Miller

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Posted March 31 2009 - 02:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyC
If it were a situation like Star Wars where George Lucas initially only released the amended versions on DVD, I would totally be with you. In fairness, Pearl Jam is about the only major grunge band I'm not a big fan of (although I do own Ten and their greatest hits set, as well as a live EP) so maybe it wouldn't bother me as much as if, say, they gave Nevermind this treatment. I guess it's like Let it Be and Let it Be...Naked. Probably unnecessary but a neat compliment to the original.

Speaking of Nirvana, I'm hearing that there's a deluxe edition of Bleach on the way in June.

I understand what you're saying. I know I'm probably missing something I'd actually like with my attitude but I'm set in my ways.

I heard similar about Nirvana. Nirvana is my least favorite of the grunge bands. Nevermind and Unplugged is all that I have from them.

I'd take anything new or unreleased from Soundgarden. Short of a reunion and a new album, I'd love a good quality live release. Anything really. Even a remix. Posted Image
Carl

#12 of 24 OFFLINE   Russell G

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Posted March 31 2009 - 02:32 PM

Ha ha, when I listened to this TEN set, I listened to the original mix first, and thought "Meh, still don't like it." Then disc 2 was a total ear opener.

With Nirvana, I never liked NEVERMIND for the same reasons as TEN, but really liked IN UTERO. Maybe a remix of NEVERMIND will get me liking that album. Posted Image

#13 of 24 OFFLINE   AnthonyC

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Posted March 31 2009 - 04:39 PM

Oh man, I'm totally on board for anything Soundgarden. I thought Kim Thayil was supposed to be compiling a rarities set but I haven't heard any updates on that in years. There actually was a semi-reunion, with Kim, Ben, and Matt playing a few songs with Tad Doyle on vocals, if you could call them that. I only listened to a few seconds of the YouTube video of "Spoonman" before I couldn't take anymore. Too bad Chris is too interested in doing a horrible collaboration with Timbaland to make Soundgarden complete again. I think the guy gets off on ignoring what fans want.

#14 of 24 OFFLINE   Carlo Medina

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Posted April 01 2009 - 12:31 PM

I'm one of those "purists" as well. But I will say a few things about the Ten Legacy edition:

1. Bravo for including the remastered original version. It's the version I fell in love with all those years ago.

2. The Brendan O'Brien remix is indeed eye-opening in a very good way. He is still using much if not all of the original music/vocals recorded, but stripped away a lot of reverb and effects off of the vocals, letting Vedder's power come through in a way that the heavy 'verb masked in the original. He also moved a lot of things forward in the mix, obviously loves McCready's guitar, and the cymbals as well. Overall, I prefer the new mix to the old, sacrilege as it sounds.

3. Overcompressed to hell. Seriously. There is talk that the LPs are not, that they retain their dynamic range. But the CDs of both the remastered original Ten and the remixed Ten are turned way the F up. A few of the forums (like Steve Hoffman, and even one thread on the official PJ fan club) say that O'Brien did a great job remixing everything only to have it "Mastered by Brickwall Bob Ludwig". There are some waveforms that are just eyepopping. It's like the Spinal Tap saying "goes to 11" only all of the time. Wish I had an LP player, but I wasn't about to spend over $140 to get the LP/CD/DVD set.

4. Speaking of the DVD, the Unplugged set from the early 90s is worth the price of admission alone. I remembered it clearly from my college days spent watching the taped version off of MTV over and over again, and now it's finally available to me all the time. I know we aren't supposed to talk about how to do this, but I will find a way to get that music off the DVD and into my iPod. Posted Image

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#15 of 24 OFFLINE   Carl Miller

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Posted April 02 2009 - 12:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyC
Oh man, I'm totally on board for anything Soundgarden. I thought Kim Thayil was supposed to be compiling a rarities set but I haven't heard any updates on that in years. There actually was a semi-reunion, with Kim, Ben, and Matt playing a few songs with Tad Doyle on vocals, if you could call them that. I only listened to a few seconds of the YouTube video of "Spoonman" before I couldn't take anymore. Too bad Chris is too interested in doing a horrible collaboration with Timbaland to make Soundgarden complete again. I think the guy gets off on ignoring what fans want.

I never heard them with Tad Doyle, but I can't imagine anybody but Cornell's voice with their music. He pretty much squashed any hope of a reunion when his most recent solo album came out. I think he said he couldn't see it ever happening. I've read he's a major ego-maniac.

What strikes me about the whole grunge scene is how scarce quality live recordings are of Soundgarden and AIC. It's like neither of them recorded their own shows.

With all of you (Russell and Carlo too) saying how good this remix is, I may have to break tradition and get it.
Carl

#16 of 24 OFFLINE   Carlo Medina

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Posted April 03 2009 - 06:38 AM

Funny about the SG reunion. I'd heard Ben was the reason they broke up, but seeing as to how the others have made nice and Chris is still out there doing his Timbaland crap, I can easily see how he may have been the one to end it, or at least be a major cause of it.

I too can't hear anyone but Cornell's voice doing SG stuff. Even the concept of someone else singing it really irks me. I'd really be up for any grunge-era live recordings but as you say, they are scarce.

Speaking of remastering/remixing, I'm not sure I'd want anything done to Siamese Dream. That recording has great dynamic range (very little compression) and is mixed and recorded well. Other than preserving everything as is, but going back to the master tapes and giving it the 24/96 or 24/192 treatment onto SACD or some other hi-res format, I'm not sure it can be improved upon.

Likewise, I like how a lot of SG's stuff was recorded and released (specifically Badmotorfinger and Down on the Upside), so other than creating hi-res versions I wouldn't want a remix of those albums. I'd be interested in hearing a more stripped down version of SuperUnknown though, kind of like what they did to Ten.

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#17 of 24 OFFLINE   Drew_N

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Posted April 09 2009 - 10:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina
but stripped away a lot of reverb and effects off of the vocals, letting Vedder's power come through in a way that the heavy 'verb masked in the original.

I couldn't agree more. The old version was all reverb. I love the remixed version because you can actually hear the vocals and instruments both all at the same time, as well as individually.

I've listened to the CD, and am greatly looking forward to checking it out on vinyl.

#18 of 24 OFFLINE   Carl Miller

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Posted April 10 2009 - 01:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyC
Too bad Chris is too interested in doing a horrible collaboration with Timbaland to make Soundgarden complete again. I think the guy gets off on ignoring what fans want.

I finally heard this Timbaland mix...holy crap, it just seems unnatural for him to go in that direction. The regular version of the song, I think called Long Gone isn't bad.

One of our local rock stations has been airing an interview with him in bits and pieces all week. Strange stuff. He spent more time talking about his kids and he had virtually nothing to say about his Soundgarden days.
Carl

#19 of 24 OFFLINE   Ron Reda

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Posted June 24 2009 - 07:13 AM

Bump cuz there remastering "Vs." as well!!!
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#20 of 24 OFFLINE   Carlo Medina

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Posted June 24 2009 - 10:02 AM

I know it was rumored, but if we have official confirmation that would be awesome.

Hopefully they won't "brickwall master" this one like they did for Ten Remastered, and preserve the dynamic range.

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