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Which current TVs can display PAL with no conversion?


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21 replies to this topic

#1 of 22 OFFLINE   Jesse Skeen

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Posted January 17 2009 - 07:46 PM

Let's see if I get any answers on this- I know that some, but not all LCD TVs can display video in PAL format (used in Europe) without the need for any conversion- I have a few DVD players that will display PAL discs on an NTSC set, but the frame rate of anything shot on video comes out messed up. On a TV that can handle PAL, everything looks as it should if you connect a DVD player that accept PAL discs and outputs a true PAL signal- some players simply refuse to play them. So far I know that Vizio TVs WILL display PAL, Samsungs do not- those bring up an onscreen message saying "Mode not supported" if you give them a PAL signal. Anyone know about the other brands?
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#2 of 22 OFFLINE   Ernest

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Posted January 22 2009 - 08:53 AM

Besides Vizio I have played PAL DVD's on Konka and Westinghouse LCD's. I am using a region-free Pioneer hard drive recorder that does not include a video converter. Thanks for advising Samsung LCD's do not display PAL I will make sure I never purchase that brand.

#3 of 22 OFFLINE   Jeff Willis

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Posted January 24 2009 - 02:04 AM

Does anyone know about the Panasonic Plasma line of TV's regarding PAL 50 FPS capability? I own the PANASONIC 50" Plasma TV Model TH50PZ85U and have been trying to find out if I would need the external PAL/NTSC Converter for a possible upcoming Region-Free BR player.

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#4 of 22 OFFLINE   Heinz W

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Posted January 24 2009 - 11:35 AM

I'm pretty sure the Pioneer Kuro plasmas (both the Elite and non-Elite) can do PAL, not sure about the Panny's.

#5 of 22 OFFLINE   AndyMcKinney

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Posted January 19 2010 - 05:34 AM

From what I've read in my research (if we're only talking 'mainstream' USA-sold/marketed TV sets, not speciality multi-system units), sets made by Philips are supposed to support PAL outputs and so are Sharp sets. Although not explicitly stated in their manuals, when you look at supported resolutions/refresh rates, on paper the Philips sets appear to be supported.

I don't know about Philips, but the Sharp units are (from what I read) only capable of outputting PAL if you connect with the component inputs (i.e. NOT supported through HDMI). I certainly remember seeing PAL as a 'color system' choice in the Sharp menus about 3-4 years ago when I was helping my dad with his purchase).

As for Panasonic, you might as well forget it. They have a long history of intentionally going out of their way to make sure their US products to be incapable of multi-system compatibility (this goes for TVs and DVD players). The only Panasonic TVs you're likely to find that will work with PAL will be the multi-system ones that are imported from offshore.

Sharp, Philips and Vizio are the three that I had previously heard about having full NTSC/PAL capabilities. Of the three, Sharp seems to get the best reviews on places like C|Net.



#6 of 22 OFFLINE   Jesse Skeen

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Posted January 19 2010 - 11:37 AM

I just got the new Vizio LED LCD and it does NOT accept a PAL signal- the screen just goes black.  However, I also got a Denon receiver which DOES take a PAL signal and outputs that to the TV at the proper frame speed.

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#7 of 22 OFFLINE   Selden Ball

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Posted January 23 2010 - 03:36 AM

As a workaround, if you're using a BD player or upscaling DVD player, you may be able to set its output to always upscale to 1080p/60 fps. All high-definition TVs in all countries can display that resolution and frame rate, so it doesn't matter if you're watching an NTSC or PAL disc.

Of course, whether or not the player can handle NTSC or PAL discs is another matter, as is the disc and player region lock. I fear it's only a matter of time before region locking makes it out of the players and into HDMI/HDCP. :(

FWIW, I use a Sherwood BDP-5004, which works fine in this situation, although it has its quirks.

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#8 of 22 OFFLINE   TheBat

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Posted January 23 2010 - 05:47 AM

I own the philips 47pfl7403D.  I can play PAl related movies from region 2 and 4. I also have a philips dvd player that does the proper pal format.

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#9 of 22 OFFLINE   monika

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Posted January 26 2010 - 05:40 PM

Vizio TVs will display ! I thought it was already. OK i  try Vizio TV.  Thanks friend.


#10 of 22 OFFLINE   Jesse Skeen

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Posted January 27 2010 - 11:16 AM

It seems Vizio no longer supports PAL, as my new TV can't display it.  I've found the true way to display PAL however is with an audio receiver- I tried out 3 different ones to decide which best worked with my equipment, and all 3 of them displayed PAL signals from 2 different DVD players I tried on them.  The receiver I ended up with does not see the auto-aspect flag however on PAL (it does on NTSC) but that can be solved by getting a region-free upconverting player that squeezes the 4x3 picture with black bars on the sides for display in 16x9.  I tested out a Denon receiver that did automatically change the screen format on PAL, but it had an unacceptable amount of dropouts when using analog video formats so I couldn't keep that one.

Long story short- look for a receiver that can handle PAL and it won't matter what kind of TV you use with it.

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#11 of 22 OFFLINE   SWFF

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Posted February 04 2010 - 07:20 AM

What about Sanyo HD TVs; I've got a 32"?

#12 of 22 OFFLINE   synmiki

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Posted September 12 2010 - 01:30 PM

Hello, I'm new to this forum. I recently debugged an annoying DVD player - LCD TV "mode not supported" error after much trial and tribulation, and since I was unable to find any help online (despite much searching, let me tell you), I thought I'd do my part as a good netizen and post the solution somewhere. This forum (and this thread in particular) seemed to me the most sensible. Apologies to all who consider this off topic and not in compliance with the posting policy.

 

THE SETUP:

 

  • Philips DVP3010 DVD player, unlocked
  • Samsung LCD TV UN46B6000VF
  • YPbPr component video cables
 

THE PROBLEM:

 

The DVD player was originally purchased and used in Europe. We moved to the US and bought the TV, and received the "mode not supported" error promptly after attempting to watch any DVD. The reason was obvious to us: the European-marketed DVD player was outputting PAL, whereas the TV could only understand NTSC (as correctly noted higher up in this thread).

 

THE SOLUTION:

 

The Philips DVD player does provide the option of outputting NTSC, but unfortunately the unit displays its setup menu only on a TV screen -- see the problem?  We thus had to make the switch from PAL to NTSC output by "flying blind" through the menus. (Luckily, I had an identical DVD player already configured with NTSC output, so I was able to connect that one with the TV and carefully write down the key sequence... )

 

So for those of you with a PAL-configured Philips DVD player with a system menu that is the same as that of model DVP3010, here is the sequence of remote control keystrokes to switch to NTSC:

 

1.  Power down and power up the DVD player, to ensure that the menu is not on.

2. Give the unit about 30 seconds to fully turn on. Then press System Menu on the remote.

3. Press the Right arrow key. (Note: this and all subsequent arrow keys are the ones that increase/decrease the frame speed, NOT the ones that navigate scenes).

4. Press the Right arrow key again.

5. Press the Down arrow key.

6. Press the Right arrow key.

7. Press the Down arrow key.

8. Press the Down arrow key again.

9. Press the OK key.

10. Press the Left arrow key.

11. Press the OK key.

 

That's it!  The last two steps are not apparent on a unit already configured to NTSC output, as they refer to a confirmation screen that pops up to confirm a change in the output format (much like Windows asks you to confirm any change in screen resolution). In a unit already outputting NTSC (as my second unit), no confirmation screen appears obviously.

 

Should anyone wish to suggest a better/alternate place to post this information, I would be gracious to comply.

 

 



#13 of 22 ONLINE   Charles Smith

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Posted September 13 2010 - 01:30 AM

I'm glad this thread got revived.  It's a subject I need to be on top of since I'm about to purchase a new TV, and because of past experience I didn't even realize it might be an issue.   I've had no problem playing PAL discs on an Oppo DV-981HD and displaying them on a 3-year-old Vizio.  I recently moved that Oppo to another room with an old CRT TV that will soon be replaced with a new HDTV.  When reconfiguring the Oppo, I saw the setting for output to NTSC or PAL and made sure it was on NTSC.  I don't even remember if I accessed that setting with the Vizio three years ago, but the PAL discs now play just fine on this 26-year-old Mitsubishi monitor.   I'd planned to get a plasma for this room, in which I'm the only person I have to please and where lighting will be completely controllable; i.e., there need be no reflection issues.  Based on what I'd come to believe is a general consensus that Panasonics are among the best plasmas, I was probably going to go in that direction.  Does the Oppo make this a non-issue?   Also, I didn't know the receiver had anything to do with it.  The one in use with the Vizio was an Onkyo HTiB unit, current one is a Pioneer VSX-21TXH.  Additionally, I'll probably get the Oppo BD-83 for this room.  Will that likewise play my PAL DVDs on a Panny?  Questions, questions.  Thanks for any assistance!

#14 of 22 OFFLINE   safesinger

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Posted September 13 2010 - 02:07 AM

I was always under the assumption that any Television that supported 576 (288 Line) would work just fine with any PAL Movie as long as the player itself could output a PAL signal.

My last HDTV Panasonic projection TV I bought here in the states supported 480i/p,576p,1080i. Was purchased in late 2004.

After reading these posts I am suprised seeing televisions not outputing the picture on PAL movies especially todays HDTV's that support not just standard but HDTV resolutions and multiple PC resolutions as well.
All newer Televisions only have HDMI inputs now they no longer come with HDMI w/DVI or VGA inputs for the PC. Meaning Even PC's hook through the HDMI port today making all resolutions useable straight through the HDMI port.

 

It's a true saying you learn something new everyday all this time I really thought all HDTV's supported PAL resolution out of the box..



#15 of 22 OFFLINE   smithb

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Posted September 13 2010 - 02:34 AM

Charles,   As long as you have your region free Oppo DV-981HD converting PAL to NTSC you will not have any problems with your NTSC TV's. It is only if you change it to output a native PAL signal that you may run into issues depending on what your TV supports for an input signal. Based on this thread I did not know so many TV's were still having this issue. I just assumed incorrectly that newer TV's would be more adaptable. I have a Sony projector and luckily no issues.   The Oppo BD-83 will most likely NOT be the complete solution you ar looking for. While I believe it will output PAL just fine, it is region locked with no easy way to change it. Tougher restrictions from the Blu-ray side made Oppo stick with region locking (even for DVD's). There is a firmware hack and a hardware solution but most probably wouldn't want to go there based on expense and lack of supporting future firmware updates. So it is possible and many have done it but it has its downside as well.   I have an Oppo BD-83 myself for Blu-ray watching and region 1 DVD's, but I also have a Marantz 4001 for region free PAL playback. Phillips has several cheap alternatives for region free, NTSC converting, DVD players.   As for the receiver reference, many people run all their source devices through their receiver and then from the receiver to the TV/Projector. This can save on cable length, preserve HDMI connections on the TV, as well as provide a common place for additional processing of the signal. Some better receivers have converters built in. So in this case, a receiver could be used to handle upconverting and NTSC/PAL signal conversion.

#16 of 22 ONLINE   Charles Smith

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Posted September 13 2010 - 02:47 AM

I had figured the Oppo 981 is a keeper, anyway, so that will remain as my PAL disc player regardless of which BLU player I go with.   By the way, if the TV was compatible and one WAS able to change output to a native PAL signal, would there be any improvement in quality over leaving it as NTSC?

#17 of 22 OFFLINE   smithb

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Posted September 13 2010 - 04:13 AM

 

Originally Posted by Chas in CT 

I had figured the Oppo 981 is a keeper, anyway, so that will remain as my PAL disc player regardless of which BLU player I go with.

 

By the way, if the TV was compatible and one WAS able to change output to a native PAL signal, would there be any improvement in quality over leaving it as NTSC?


PAL is 25 frames by 576 lines vs. NTSC of 30 frames by 486 lines. There are also a few other differences here and there. During normal viewing I don't see a difference. However, some might find one better then the other. I also have no issues with time-compressed or PAL speed-up issues.

 

I think the general idea is to try and not force unecessary conversion when they can be avoided. Especially, when other conversions have already been performed. For example, a PAL source might have been created from an NTSC source. So in this case you are going from NTSC -> PAL -> NTSC. Each conversion attempted is subject to the quality of the device doing the conversion. Some are better then others.

 

The Oppo 981 is a good player. I only mentioned Phillips in case you needed another one for a different room. While the Oppo is great they don't get reduced in price so they still seem today to go for the same price as when introduced. While ther are plenty of other cheaper alternatives now.
 



#18 of 22 OFFLINE   Jesse Skeen

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Posted September 18 2010 - 08:02 AM

If you watch any PAL material shot on video and the player is converting it to NTSC, the frame rate will come out more film-like than video.  If your display can handle PAL unconverted, the frame rate is correct.
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#19 of 22 OFFLINE   Jesse Skeen

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Posted September 18 2010 - 09:21 PM

By the way- I recently got a Toshiba HD-A30 HD-DVD player (since I'm into dead formats, I've been collecting HD-DVDs since the format died and wanted a backup player to the one I was using) and I was able to make it region-free and compatible with PAL DVDs.  I played around with it using the BBC "Robin Hood" combo discs, which are HD-DVD on one side and PAL standard DVD on the other.  The Vizio TV did take the player's HDMI signal directly without going through the receiver, but through the component and standard video inputs, the picture went black as soon as PAL material started- the resolution (576i, not sure about the number exactly) appeared on the TV's display, but it wouldn't display the picture on the screen, making me think they intentionally disabled it.  My receiver can still take a PAL component signal and send that to the TV, will have to try the standard video soon just in case I ever get any old PAL analog formats.
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#20 of 22 OFFLINE   sikkim

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Posted March 19 2011 - 03:04 PM

Hi,  I have a Vizio LED LCD(I am guessing similar to Jesse's)  that I bought in US and brought to India. India supports PAL signal. To my disappointment this TV as you mentioned does not show the picture(the screen goes black) although I can hear the sound. I have a Onkyo receiver(TX-SR508). Is there anyway I can convert the PAL signal to NTSC using this converter. I have a Sharp Bluray player but i did not see any option of using it for input/output. Any help in making this TV work is highly appreciated. Thanks